Leonaides Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 My 2c - with regard to the OP you are either deliberately trying to stir up foolishness, or you are using your models foolishly. You want Heorhammer? Go look at C:SW. You want C:BA, learn to use you r army better since you appear to not be able to get past the 'Raaagh - I wants moar toyz!". Dante is damn good at what he does, and if you are having that much trouble with him, then you simply arent using him right. Its akin to complaining about how Devastators are useless in CC - its simply not what they're for. And Deshenus Maximus - I never understood why people have such a hardon for that rule. Ooh, one random sergeant gets to be marginaly better in CC. Big whoop. Assuming your sarge has a Fist (which he most likely will), you will kill on average one more MEQ than you would without the boost per round of combat. That's not exactly earth-shattering. If at least you could pick who gets the bonus, then it'd be much more useful. Then again, you arent using the sergeant right. Consider a sergeant with 2A, trying to squash a Marine Captain (any of them without EW). With 2A, you approx a 25% chance to kill a marine captain. With 3A, that becomes a 33% chance give or take. Or if you get him into a LR squadron, that extra attack which is practically guaranteed to penetrate could result in you taking out upwards of 600pts of vehicles in 1 combat round. Or you could just charge him into a bog-standard infantry unit and waste that extra combat potential. Which it sounds like is the extent of your thoought on the matter, after which you are willing to completely write off the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 damm... i thought he did. <_< well the bonus init and ws is still good, especially on something like vanguard or termys though its still good anywhere... obviously better on something that strikes at initive, so would be awsome with lightening claw armed dude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpWalker Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Dragonknight- What is it you really want? Is giving you an unbeatable character going to make you happy? I hardly think the codex is to blame here. It's that children now-a-days don't understand the meaning of teamwork. They want a character or squad that will win them the game in 5 minutes. More time for YouTube and Twitter. Yeah!!! <_< A little strawman theory here...Most of us know it takes a lot of ingredients to make a good cake. But to isolate one ingredient to eat only wouldn't taste so good. Example: baking soda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpWalker Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Double post. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Then again, you arent using the sergeant right. Consider a sergeant with 2A, trying to squash a Marine Captain (any of them without EW). With 2A, you approx a 25% chance to kill a marine captain. With 3A, that becomes a 33% chance give or take. Or if you get him into a LR squadron, that extra attack which is practically guaranteed to penetrate could result in you taking out upwards of 600pts of vehicles in 1 combat round. Or you could just charge him into a bog-standard infantry unit and waste that extra combat potential. Which it sounds like is the extent of your thoought on the matter, after which you are willing to completely write off the unit. Right, because that 8% increased chance of ID is totally worth the amount of pain you're going to have to go through to get that specific sergeant in that specific situation... and that's assuming you even manage to get him there at all. And you know, the unit the boosted sergeant belongs to most likely has krak grenades, so it's not like that squadron of LRs would likely survive anymore regardless of that one extra attack... If you're going to discredit what I say, you're going to have to come up with better examples, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 damm... i thought he did. <_< well the bonus init and ws is still good, especially on something like vanguard or termys though its still good anywhere... obviously better on something that strikes at initive, so would be awsome with lightening claw armed dude... That's my big problem with Sangui's boost: you can't choose who gets it. If I could be assured that a sergeant with a LC and a SS got it every time, I'd be much more supportive of Holy McBatnipples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I totally agree with most replies here. I like Dante, I like Sanguinary Guard and Glaives, and I like Sanguinor. Imho they are great units if used properly. There is no 100% winning unit or character, everything needs advantages and disadvantages, it's game balance. If you find anything not worth using - don't use it. I don't see how Stormraven can contribute to my lists, so I don't use it. I don't come here ranting about its uselessness. If you don't like C:BA, go for another army with the hammer-unit you desire. The current dex is great, I couldn't ask for more. It's much better than pdfdex we had (although I liked it, as it was BA dex, and BA rock regardless of anything :P ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 you know id love to see a DC army hit the table, with DC tycho, the undertaker (evil sanguinor dude) and loads of DC dreads with stormravens.. on the "rule of cool" scale the new BA dex is brilliant.. however i feel the made several errors, for lack of a better word. 1: every SC in previous dexes (i.e C:SM/SW) gives bonuses.. i think nerfing opponents HQ choices before the game is a little OTT.. especially the nerfs that dante brings, he essentially turns a captain into a sergeant, which is way too much IMO. 2: units are cheaper/better, devs are chaper, assaults are the same cost with better rules and upgrade options... could have been handled better IMO 3: what USRs did the death company NOT get? 4: everything is called bloodsomething.. seems like lack of imagination to me other than that its a pretty decent dex, full of BA flavour and very cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 @greatcrusade: Agreed on points 1 and 4. I think the devs and assault squads are better because GW finally clued in that they are crap in the SM dex. Also, while DC have some awesome rules, Rage can be a right pain to deal with, so I think it works out ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I think the devs and assault squads are better because GW finally clued in that they are crap in the SM dex. Yeah devs are hardly used in C:SM.. trouble is you now have an unbalanced set of rulebooks for the same edition.. its good for BA (and the game in general), just not so good for C:SM players. thems the breaks i guess Also, while DC have some awesome rules, Rage can be a right pain to deal with, so I think it works out ok. Rage is cool :D, but yeah it stops them being over the top. i was just surprised when i saw thier big list of rules.. my only other concern is blood talons, sure it stops a dread from going toe to toe with other walkers, but the ability to kill a whole squad a turn is crazy, especially compared to C:SM dreads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I pray for the day GW embraces digitalised codexes that they can do small updates on at semi-regular intervals... It seems fairly obvious to me that the losses in codex sales would easily be made up, if not surpassed, by the increased amount of devastators, vanguard vets and assault squads that people would buy if they took the 5 minutes necessary to adjust those units' prices and wargear options... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonknight4275 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 such stupid complaints. Well gee, thanks! Go screw with someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 These are rather pointless complaints. It isn't the purpose of a codex to provide unkillable units of mass destruction. No -one would play against you if it did. Fluff vs reality vs playability is presumably a contest that playability always wins, it being a game. My feeling is that the 40K units are too powerful and unkillable compared to reality. Seeing individual characters smash up bastions with hand weapons in planet-strike when the same buildings have survived spaceships crashing on them out of orbit pretty much puts people like Dante and Mephiston in perspective. Dante's figure wields a fancy axe, in fluff it is the axe mortalis and the codex describes how this works. Why doesn't he use something else? who knows. Maybe it is a ceremonial weapon of the Chapter-Master, maybe an artefact he had to quest for. Perhaps he made it himself back before he became a blood angel, or an apprentice piece before he could join the first company. Perhaps it is a familiar and loved old friend, moulded comfortably to his grip over centuries. I see it something more like Sharpe's heavy cavalry sword rather than Elric's Stormbringer, just something he happens to use. What I think is most odd in the Codex is the failure to decide on an elite jump-packed unit. There are jumpacked honour guard, Sanguinary guard, Van Guard veterans and (at a pinch) jump-packed Death company which are all more or less the same thing, just spread round the FOC slots. Not being consistent with what they can do has various anomalies. How come the vanguard don't know how to use bolters when wearing their jumpacks while the honour guard and even the Death company do? One of the most distinctive things about the Sanguinary guard are their winged jump-packs, but these don't have any in-game effect. Instead they have a rather pointless combination of two-handed weapon and wrist-mounted pistol. And why did they get the Chapter Banner given to them when clearly it should be carried by Dante's Honour Guard. Personally I would have had a stat-line for Veteran Assault troops, who could form an honour guard, elite or Fast Attack choice, possibly depending on the HQ choice, and had a wargear section from which artificer armour, death masks, souped up jumpacks (like ones which ignore difficult terrain or don't scatter), relic blades/blades encarmine etc can be bought. I just have a feeling Matt Ward thought up a different elite angelic unit every month and never got round to rationalising them. I generally love the Codex, though. Very flavourful and lots of variety. It cleared up my biggest problem of the pdf which was too many elite choices. Now only the techmarines are seriously pushed for a slot (does anyone take them?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Yeh Dante is overpriced and so is The Sanguinor for their applicable usefulness. And Lemartes having an obligatory Jump Pack is a bit of a booboo. People would take him EVERY GAME if you could pay 150pts for a Lemartes on foot. No Relic Blades is rather daft too. But given your models can get S5 on the charge anyway it isn't that bad. There's other cool stuff. Use that. Mephiston is very good and that is why he is generally the most used SC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Mike Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 such stupid complaints. Well gee, thanks! Go screw with someone else. That's the price of crying over something that isn't gonna change and doesn't need to either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 This thread has outlived its productiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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