MaveriK Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 what would you do? So lets say, your great company was heading back to Fenris after a long campaign. When suddenly your fleet gets caught in a freak warp storm. After what feels like forever, the storm suddenly fades away, and you find yourself brought back in real space. You then realize that your great company had been thrown back in time during the Horus Heresy! Standing at the bridge, your watching in your screen, as the White Scars legion make a warp jump towards holy terra. Leaving behind the Space Wolves legion being attacked heavily against chaos forces. You react quickly without thinking, like instinct and help aid your kin and the wolf king. Without knowing it, you've become the "unexpected quarter" that aided Leman Russ and the Wolves during the Horus Heresy. After the battle... do you make contact? and try not to change the past with what you already know? or do you help and join the wolves? Perhaps if giving Russ the knowledge of certain events in the future, was one of the reasons why he disappeared? but would you risk changing the past? would you risk changing history? or would you help the wolves prepare for the future? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimfoe Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I'd do whatever I could to help Russ and the Allfather. I'm not one to engage in philosophical debates on tampering with the timestream. If I see a traitor, I'll treat him to my blade. Leave the debate and indecision to the bean counters on Terra. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2683630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Make contact with Russ! Tell him of the things of my time and see what we can do in the now to better prepare for them. :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2683692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I dont think any space wolf could resist reporting to Russ. I mean, what are the chances your next jump could even take you back where you came from? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2683698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 It was the All-Father's will that my Company be here in this moment. I would rush to the Wolf King and give him all aid I could. After all the fates have already written all that is to come. I can not change the future but I can prepare Leman Russ for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2683738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Think I've seen something like this before.... U.S.S. Nimitz arrives at Pearl Harbor just before the Japanese attack..... Think there was an old "Twilight Zone" where a Sherman tank and crew found themselves at the Battle of the Little Bighorn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2683742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I don't think the time-stream of 40k can be changed, look at the Ork who travelled back in time and killed himself, no ill effects to himself besides getting an extra of his favorite shoota Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2683747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 I don't think the time-stream of 40k can be changed, look at the Ork who travelled back in time and killed himself, no ill effects to himself besides getting an extra of his favorite shoota that's orks for yah! we are talking about the sons of russ here! AWHOOOOOO Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2683782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 there was an anime also where a modern day japanese war ship gets sent back to WWII and the first thing that happens is a mustang opens up on them; instinctively they defend themselves and shoot it out of the sky, then afterwords they realize when they are.... the plot revolves around either saving their country from the nuke (we already killed some guy, the damage to the time stream is done) or trying to avoid doing any more damage than what's already been done. personally, i'd say meet russ.... he'd probably end up already knowing you were coming ahead of time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2683852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 there was an anime also where a modern day japanese war ship gets sent back to WWII and the first thing that happens is a mustang opens up on them; instinctively they defend themselves and shoot it out of the sky, then afterwords they realize when they are.... the plot revolves around either saving their country from the nuke (we already killed some guy, the damage to the time stream is done) or trying to avoid doing any more damage than what's already been done. personally, i'd say meet russ.... he'd probably end up already knowing you were coming ahead of time. Sounds like a reverse version of "The Final Countdown" :o Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2684334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I would do nothing in terms of direct combative action. Odd, coming from me, but consider the universe at hand. If we were to approach the Emperor or Russ, wearing different armor and perhaps bearing psyker abilities unknown to that timestream (if a Rune Priest is at hand), and we told -either- of them that we were from the Future, we'd probably be killed on sight. I'd fire off a broadband message on all wavelengths from the ship's communicator, declaring Horus as a traitor to the Imperium and a pawn of Chaos forces, list the Traitor Legions, list the Loyalist Legions, give accurate information on Magnus' "Betrayal" (that Horus manipulated Russ), warn of the attack on Terra. To this message I would attach all proof that had been gleaned from the future timeline, inclusive of any documentation regarding the Horus Heresy, preferably documents that could be verified. Furthermore, I'd broadcast knowledge of every battle known from the Horus Heresy, including outcomes and tactical information (Chaos forces only), give a complete profile on the future tactics of every Traitor Legion as well as where they all would eventually end up, and how best to defeat them. Finally, I'd revise the Codex based around Wolfy organization and submit it to Guilliman, stating that he wrote it in the future after (insert elaborate lie here), and that only by following the new Codex could the Imperium stave off the corruption of Chaos. After that, I'd probably be labeled as a renegade or traitor myself, so I'd likely end up fleeing into the Maelstrom or the Eye of Terror, where I would simply wait for Huron Blackheart (if the timeline was unchanged), intercept him there, and destroy him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2684356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 See right off the bat, you'll run into problems attempting to discuss altering the space-time continuum (re: time travel). There are two primary schools of thought: Pre-destiny, where your past, present, and future have already been determined, and you're simply living out an already pre-determined path that has been chosen for you. Your choices and the results that follow have all been chosen, and nothing you attempt to do to change it will alter what must come to pass. By that logic, your being sent to the past was no random occurrence. It was meant to happen, and whatever you "choose" to do will still bring about the timeline that you know as "history". Even if you do change the past, the end result of the "script" of the universe arrives at the same place, even if the journey ends up happening quite differently (a perfect illustration of this is the latest Star Trek movie, where Spock and Kirk still end up serving together on the Enterprise, with Kirk as captain, but with the arrival to that conclusion quite different from the previously established canon of the original Star Trek storyline). The other is that the future counting forward from the moment you perceive as "present" is a blank slate; that your actions directly influence and change the "script" of the universe. It gets muddier here because, if the timeline doesn't unfold as it was meant to (or rather, as it previously did already), whose to say that you in the future would even have been sent back to the past, thus the timeline remains unaltered and you of the future are once again sent back....and the loop continues. Ultimately its a matter of your stance on free will, and whether you believe the past can ultimately be altered. Do you believe that the universe has been scripted, that regardless of your actions any/all events that are supposed to take place, will take place? Or do you attempt to alter history in the belief that your actions will change the future? Makes your head spin just thinking about it... EDIT: @Decoy - who's to say that by so doing, you alter the course of events and thus after the first battle (which may end in a different outcome), future battles happen at different locations/times with different sides/outcomes? The chaos theory would imply that your very presence in the past, nevermind your firing off said broadband message, alters the very course of history. To quote the aforementioned Star Trek movie: Spock: We must gather with the rest of Starfleet... to balance the terms of the next engagement!James T. Kirk: There won't BE a next engagement! By the time we've gathered, it'll be too late! But you say he's from the future and knows what's gonna happen - then the logical thing is to be unpredictable! Spock: You are assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold - the contrary. Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party. Lt. Nyota Uhura: An alternate reality... Spock: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been if the time continuum was disrupted - our destinies have changed. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2684526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Well theres always the 8-ball theory of time travel effects. If you tap an 8ball and it goes into a corner pocket, and is shot into the past and back onto the table it can have alot of effects- nearly infinite- but it cannot do anything that would keep it from going back in time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2684533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 All very true, though there is also the Lone Wolf theory ( i knew that would get yourattention lol) You exist, you obviuosly exist after being thrown back in time, weather you do anythign or you do nothing the new reality will play out different to the one you left because of an amazing amount of variables (personal choice, chance happening etc). That means that you may as well act because it wont make no difference to teh reality you left - its already non-existant!!!!!!! Personally id do what i could to preserve and aid the Terran forces in the knowledge that teh Emperor could be saved and Humanity given a (possibly) better future. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2684545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Well, there's always caveats to going back in time. For instance, the paradox that if you went back in time to kill Hitler and kill Hitler, you'd have no reason to go back in time to kill Hitler, meaning you'd never go back in time, meaning Hitler lived... Et cetera. I prefer to think of time as not a linear thing, but take the Dr. Who stance of "Wibbly Wobbly, Timey Wimey... Stuff." That, combined with a bit of personal theory (I'm sure someone's thought of it and named it, but I have yet to see it anywhere.) Personal Theory: Time is a perception of the progression of matter through space. Time, therefore, is simply a matter of perception, not of actuality. "Time Travel", therefore, ceases to be progression or recession of a person or object through the broad concept of "Time" and instead becomes manipulation of Space. A Time Travel machine, for instance, would not travel through time, but reverse the course of space and matter until the desired "time" is reached. However, since moving the universe is impossible, Time Travel would instead have to rely on the concept of multidimensional interaction, which is possible by the nature of the Warp and Warp travel. Essentially, the Universe is set in stone. In this universe, (event A), (event B ) and (event C) have happened. In Universe A, (Event A) and (event B ) have happened, but Event C has not. In Universe B, (Event B ) and (eventC) have happened, but Event A has not. This progresses ad-infinitum, with the Multiverse being an all-encompassing whole of every possible permutation of every possible decision and choice, inclusive of every possible potential outcome. For instance, there is a universe where Silicon is the dominant material, a universe where people are made of diamonds, et cetera, ad infinitum. In this type of universe, for "time travel" to be possible, our universe would have to be capable of developing a machine capable of jumping to other dimensions. Let's say that I want to travel back in "time" to kill Horus. The following would need to happen: Our own universe must have a machine or ability to slip between universes. The target universe must have Horus. The target universe must, in it's "state", have Horus be killed. The killer of Horus must be extra-universal. In going "back in time", in reality, the "time traveller" would instead be warping to another universe which, in infinite probability, RESULTS in Horus being killed by a "time traveler from the future." This leads to the problem of "What happens next?" and can again be broken down into a series of points. The target universe MUST have had Horus killed The target universe's future CAN be the same as the current 40K world, with someone else taking over Horus' spot. The target universe's future CAN be changed, with Horus dead and the Imperium of Mankind in another Golden Age. The target universe's future CAN ... Well, pretty much anything. However, in my view of time travel, ultimately it'd just make more sense to jump to the universe where Horus has been killed and the Imperium is in a golden age, bypassing Horus completely. Did that make any sense? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2684551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 what would you do? So lets say, your great company was heading back to Fenris after a long campaign. When suddenly your fleet gets caught in a freak warp storm. After what feels like forever, the storm suddenly fades away, and you find yourself brought back in real space. You then realize that your great company had been thrown back in time during the Horus Heresy! Standing at the bridge, your watching in your screen, as the White Scars legion make a warp jump towards holy terra. Leaving behind the Space Wolves legion being attacked heavily against chaos forces. You react quickly without thinking, like instinct and help aid your kin and the wolf king. Without knowing it, you've become the "unexpected quarter" that aided Leman Russ and the Wolves during the Horus Heresy. After the battle... do you make contact? and try not to change the past with what you already know? or do you help and join the wolves? Perhaps if giving Russ the knowledge of certain events in the future, was one of the reasons why he disappeared? but would you risk changing the past? would you risk changing history? or would you help the wolves prepare for the future? Altering the past is VERY dangerous. Ramifications may be more dire than expected. Some times its best to let the known evil survive and play out vs the unknown which could be birth by an "unplanned" change. We stay aloof, and when the traitors run scared into the EoT we give chase and stay and fight the fight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2684554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneSniperSG Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 what would you do? So lets say, your great company was heading back to Fenris after a long campaign. When suddenly your fleet gets caught in a freak warp storm. After what feels like forever, the storm suddenly fades away, and you find yourself brought back in real space. You then realize that your great company had been thrown back in time during the Horus Heresy! Standing at the bridge, your watching in your screen, as the White Scars legion make a warp jump towards holy terra. Leaving behind the Space Wolves legion being attacked heavily against chaos forces. You react quickly without thinking, like instinct and help aid your kin and the wolf king. Without knowing it, you've become the "unexpected quarter" that aided Leman Russ and the Wolves during the Horus Heresy. After the battle... do you make contact? and try not to change the past with what you already know? or do you help and join the wolves? Perhaps if giving Russ the knowledge of certain events in the future, was one of the reasons why he disappeared? but would you risk changing the past? would you risk changing history? or would you help the wolves prepare for the future? Maverik, I think you know as well as all of us that if said Great Company was the mysterious aid to Leman Russ, it's already too late to do anything about Horus. If I were the Wolf Lord in charge, I think I would do what Ragnarok said. Try and raise as much hell as possible for the Traitor Legions as they run to the Eye of Terror. This would be the best chance to do some significant damage, as they would all be weakened and demoralized from the Siege of Terra. Spock: We must gather with the rest of Starfleet... to balance the terms of the next engagement!James T. Kirk: There won't BE a next engagement! By the time we've gathered, it'll be too late! But you say he's from the future and knows what's gonna happen - then the logical thing is to be unpredictable! Spock: You are assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold - the contrary. Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party. Lt. Nyota Uhura: An alternate reality... Spock: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been if the time continuum was disrupted - our destinies have changed. Isn't it crazy how many scientific insights can be gleaned from Star Trek? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2685022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Disappointed that there was not a, "Pop quiz hotshot....." In this thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2685030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverik_girl Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Disappointed that there was not a, "Pop quiz hotshot....." In this thread. there can be if you wanted one so badly :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2685036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danosef Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Suddenly reminded of the gaping plot holes regarding time travel in the movie The Terminator! :D In this example however, I'd definitely go and make contact with/report to Russ - I mean, it's Russ - any excuse for some face time with the legend himself! I didn't get to know enough about him in Prospero Burns so I'll take what I can when I can :D lol Regarding the possible alteration of the future by dabbling in the past - I'd consider the fact that the 41st Millenium hasn't exactly worked out peachy as it is and can't exactly get a whole lot worse ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2685050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 soo i go back in time and eat wolf flakes instead of coco wolves and i save the allfather from sitting on the golden loo forever and i get a free canis rub on tattoo from the box ........:evil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2685064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Without knowing it, you've become the "unexpected quarter" that aided Leman Russ and the Wolves during the Horus Heresy. you dont have the proper security codex , your ships is of different and unknown desing to the heresy era troops , the markins are different and unseen . You would get shot down . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2685133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneSniperSG Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Without knowing it, you've become the "unexpected quarter" that aided Leman Russ and the Wolves during the Horus Heresy. you dont have the proper security codex , your ships is of different and unknown desing to the heresy era troops , the markins are different and unseen . You would get shot down . Hold that thought, 'cause your ships are festooned in Space Wolf emblems and Imperial Aquilas. I don't think people will that stupid in the Heresy era. Regarding the possible alteration of the future by dabbling in the past - I'd consider the fact that the 41st Millenium hasn't exactly worked out peachy as it is and can't exactly get a whole lot worse Go read the Dornian Heresy article. If you thought the 40k galaxy couldn't look more hopeless than it does now, then you should definitely read that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2685195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Hold that thought, 'cause your ships are festooned in Space Wolf emblems and Imperial Aquilas. I don't think people will that stupid in the Heresy era. Imperial Aquilas was a post heresy thing for sm , pre and durning the heresy the only ship that could have had one was n EC one [which went rogue] . The wolf emblemas were used by more then one legion . And as the shoting on stuff that doesnt give the proper pass/code , it is a standard army procedur. I seen a general shot by guards , because his driver though he doesnt have to give a pass . And that wasnt even durning an battle . Durning a battle you wouldnt even ask what tank/unit [and in case of w40k battle barge] you dont ask or think what a thing [because you also dont think about stuff in terms of humans] is. If it is not yours it gets shot to death , then you can check what it was. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2685213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverik_girl Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 if a complete stranger just saved my ass (unexpected quarter) common courtesy and logic would at least tell me that I should give my rescuers the benifit of the doubt. Instead of shoot now and ask later, oh btw thanks for the assist. I would think the space wolves would show a bit of respect. @the jeske: I'm not sure, but if the rescuers ship don't appear mutated or daemonic... I'd think common sense would say they look clean enough and not tainted like the traitor legions. I don't know allot about 40K, and I just read up on Space Wolves, but how old are the ships in the space wolf fleet? Do they date back to the great crusades? and aren't space wolves bff with a navigator house? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224413-what-would-you-do/#findComment-2685230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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