CaptinLoken Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I am looking at the Librarian powers and noticed something. Can a unit locked in Close combat use gate of Infinity to break combat and deep strike back where a friendly beacon is being held either by a scout bike sarge or drop pod? Some how this seems like a pocket made Hit and run move. Kinda chessy but Trying to think of things for ARD boys USA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224421-gate-of-infinity-with-locator-beacons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhg Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 If you plan on using this in a tournament then get a ruling from the TO first... I don't care who says otherwise, it's a "Hell no!" from me, and thus a Hell no in every tournament I organise. Deep Strike is a form of movement, and as such forbidden as you are locked in combat. However other people (lots of them on this forum) interpret the rule the other way and allow it. For whatever reason GW never cleared it up in the SM FAQ so from time to time the question comes up again on the forums... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224421-gate-of-infinity-with-locator-beacons/#findComment-2683840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Agreed. We had a multipage argument going on here about it, but the case for 'no' was that it breaks all precedents of being able to leave combat being specifically allowed in the rule. GoI has no such allowance, therefore to say you can is going with RAI interpreted to your advantage. RoV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224421-gate-of-infinity-with-locator-beacons/#findComment-2683934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 On the other side of this, we hav had discussions before centered upon whether GoI can take advantage of teleport homers/locator beacons. It's a little dodgy. On the surface, it seems like you could...the librarian is teleporting and well, why couldn't he see the homer signal? (RAI) The Locator Beacon rules entry in the dex says "if a unit wishes to arrive on the battlefield via deep strike and chooses to do so within 6" of a model carrying a locator beacon, then it won't scatter." Since the librarian is already on the table, he's not "arriving" on the battlefield...he's already there. This may mean he can't use the locator beacon. The Teleport Homer entry uses similar wording which is actually specifically for terminators: "If Terminators wish to teleport onto the battlefield via Deep Strike...". Again, already on the battlefield...not arriving or teleporting onto. If either said "unit wishes to teleport on the battlefield", I think we'd be in business. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224421-gate-of-infinity-with-locator-beacons/#findComment-2684173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Can someone please direct me to the multipage discussion, please? My search-fu is weak, it seems, and I might have a few things to contribute, but I want to make sure they haven't already been brought up. Thanks in advance! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224421-gate-of-infinity-with-locator-beacons/#findComment-2684202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptinLoken Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 I also searched a few times and got errors pop up.... So is that a no for both the Close combat retreat as well ... location help? What is the use of having GOI then? I can't see it all to helpful for a true marine player. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224421-gate-of-infinity-with-locator-beacons/#findComment-2684274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I also searched a few times and got errors pop up.... So is that a no for both the Close combat retreat as well ... location help? What is the use of having GOI then? I can't see it all to helpful for a true marine player. The application of GoI is pretty straight forward. It's a slightly risky way to grant a unit 24" of movement and execute surprise "drive bys". Here's some popular variants: - Sternguard kitted out with combi-meltas. Librarian teleports them around the table; everytime they arrive, they rapid fire something to death (or combi-melta a vehicle open). - Command squad with all plasma. Libby teleports them around. Same idea. - Tactical squad. Teleport around with Libby and rapid-fire the crap out of things. Less killy but less expensive when they die. - Epistolary in TDA (to make him Relentless). Takes any of the aforementioned groups around the table and also drops Vortex templates along with the rapid fire. A little risky as a mishap puts that template on you and your marines, but it's not a huge risk. On Turn 4 it can put you very close to an objective you can move onto on Turn 5 (if it doesn't drop you on the objective). True there will be some scatter, but on average your scatter will be like 7", which you can make up for with a move/run worst case. But the teleporting drive by is the favorite application I've seen. In answer to your other question, check out the "Grey Area Rules" thread at the top of this forum. Text-search "Gate" in there and you'll find both a summarized explanation of this issue and a link to the original discussion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224421-gate-of-infinity-with-locator-beacons/#findComment-2684306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhg Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Another thing I forgot to mention was that the Necron Veil of Darkness is mechanically almost an identical ability. The Necron version explicitly states that you may use the Veil to leave combat, as an exception to the usual rules for being locked. GoI has no statements to this effect. There are better uses for GoI anyway, which thade has already pointed out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224421-gate-of-infinity-with-locator-beacons/#findComment-2686186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destaro Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 On the other side of this, we hav had discussions before centered upon whether GoI can take advantage of teleport homers/locator beacons. It's a little dodgy. On the surface, it seems like you could...the librarian is teleporting and well, why couldn't he see the homer signal? (RAI) The Locator Beacon rules entry in the dex says "if a unit wishes to arrive on the battlefield via deep strike and chooses to do so within 6" of a model carrying a locator beacon, then it won't scatter." Since the librarian is already on the table, he's not "arriving" on the battlefield...he's already there. This may mean he can't use the locator beacon. The Teleport Homer entry uses similar wording which is actually specifically for terminators: "If Terminators wish to teleport onto the battlefield via Deep Strike...". Again, already on the battlefield...not arriving or teleporting onto. If either said "unit wishes to teleport on the battlefield", I think we'd be in business. Actually Thade, GoI specifically states "The Librarian, and any unit he is with, are removed from the tabletop..." I would say they are then "arriving" via Deep Strike. But that could just be my interpretation :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224421-gate-of-infinity-with-locator-beacons/#findComment-2686314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 The Locator Beacon rules entry in the dex says "if a unit wishes to arrive on the battlefield via deep strike and chooses to do so within 6" of a model carrying a locator beacon, then it won't scatter." Since the librarian is already on the table, he's not "arriving" on the battlefield...he's already there. This may mean he can't use the locator beacon. Of course, he and his squad are removed from the field, and then deepstrike- so how is he not arriving? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224421-gate-of-infinity-with-locator-beacons/#findComment-2686354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 On the other side of this, we hav had discussions before centered upon whether GoI can take advantage of teleport homers/locator beacons. It's a little dodgy. On the surface, it seems like you could...the librarian is teleporting and well, why couldn't he see the homer signal? (RAI) The Locator Beacon rules entry in the dex says "if a unit wishes to arrive on the battlefield via deep strike and chooses to do so within 6" of a model carrying a locator beacon, then it won't scatter." Since the librarian is already on the table, he's not "arriving" on the battlefield...he's already there. This may mean he can't use the locator beacon. The Teleport Homer entry uses similar wording which is actually specifically for terminators: "If Terminators wish to teleport onto the battlefield via Deep Strike...". Again, already on the battlefield...not arriving or teleporting onto. If either said "unit wishes to teleport on the battlefield", I think we'd be in business. Thade, the teleport homer is a defo no no unless the unit in question are Terminators, otherwise they can't use it as only Terminators can use the teleport homer. I myself am inclined to let the locator beacon be used (I've used it myself before), but I can see both sides of the argument. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224421-gate-of-infinity-with-locator-beacons/#findComment-2687978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I wasn't clear about this...but I'm in agreement with you on both counts, DG. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224421-gate-of-infinity-with-locator-beacons/#findComment-2688004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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