Anyone notice the GK Stormraven?

[Isryion]

I haven't seen this discussed yet, so I apologize if this is a repeat.

 

I was looking for the GK stormraven to see if they had changed anything and to see how it would be used in their Codex. I raised an eyebrow a bit that it appears in the Fast Attack section. I'm obviously OK with that as it would really crowd our FA slots if it were there (which also creates another argument against the idea of using it in other marine codices that don't have it --- which slot will they use?). Their LR are in the heavy support. I'm liking our force org a bit better.

 

Additionally, I don't think the stormraven will be much used in a GK army over a landraider, unless I'm missing something. I mostly think that due to the fact that their much more limited in their choice of dreadnoughts. The only upside it seems is that they aren't competing with a lot in that slot.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think Stormravens will be an excellent delivery system for Grey Knight terminators.

[Brother Xeones]

I think Stormravens will be an excellent delivery system for Grey Knight terminators.

As do I. Also, combine a GK librarian with Summoning in a Stormraven and you can pull a large amount of your force to a single location very quickly.

 

As the OP says, I think FA suits the GK raven considering lack of units in there fast attack slots and the fact that LRs are not dedicated for any of their terminators. GK actually get less benefit from the dreadnought grapple as well since they don't have the heavy CC dreads that BA do and GK are more likely to be taking other things in there elite and heavy slots other than dreads I'd wager. The flimsy nature of the SR is also more of a liability to most GK lists since there will be fewer pieces of armor on the table to achieve good target saturation.

 

It's not all bad for the GKs though since their SR can ignore shaken and stunned, can take psi ammo and can be given a 3+ cover save when it boosts --as long as you've got an embarked librarian with The Shrouding. I mean, a SR moving 24" a turn that can still fire either a S7 assault cannon, or a Multi-melta, while Summoning up to 3 units (per embarked libby) WHILE being protected by a 3+ cover save sounds pretty good. ;)

[Sanguinarian]

It looks like GKs are now going to be the OP flavor-of-the-year. I have no idea of their point values, but 3 Stormravens full of Termies and a VenDread in tow all being summoned by a Libby Terminator Squad in a Command Land Raider will make for quite an impressive show of force in anybody's face! And then there's still room for 2 DreadKnights (at least in FOC - no idea of point values). Hold 2-3 PAGKs in Reserve until Turn 5 and teleport them onto objectives for the win.

 

I will definitely own a GK army very soon. ;)

[Isryion]

Heh, well, I guess I should know the accompanying rules before I assume it won't be as useful for them!

 

Still interesting discussion.

[The Yncarne]

Having the stormraven in the fast attack actually allows you to take 3 and actually transport 3 dreads (unless dreads aren't heavy in GK).

[Brother Xeones]

Having the stormraven in the fast attack actually allows you to take 3 and actually transport 3 dreads (unless dreads aren't heavy in GK).

 

They are. I just got done looking at the codex from the black box at my local hobby store.

I didn't have a ton of time to look, but those of you familiar with the infamous leaked dex should have few surprises in the final book --though I did see some notable differences.

 

Standard dreads are a Heavy Support choice and Venerable Dreads are an Elites choice. As far as the cost of things go, expect things to cost quite a bit if you start adding on the fun stuff (as always). IIRC I believe a Ven. Dread will run them about 175. I believe that's the correct points cost. As I said I didn't have the book in my hands for long. Essentially, its the price of the normal vanilla Ven Dread + maybe a little extra for the ability to ignore shaken and stunned results. Since most people think the vanilla Vens are overpriced, I suspect they'll feel the same about these guys. Needless to say, BA players are not likely to have dreadnought envy when they see the GK dreads --at least not in the CC department. They will have the nastiest ranged dreads in the game. a Rifleman Dread with Psi ammo gets S8 autocannons for a very modest price hike. If a GK player takes these sort of units, expect them to try to get these things on the table and pounding things as soon as possible rather than flying in on a SR.

 

It looks like GKs are now going to be the OP flavor-of-the-year. I have no idea of their point values, but 3 Stormravens full of Termies and a VenDread in tow all being summoned by a Libby Terminator Squad in a Command Land Raider will make for quite an impressive show of force in anybody's face! And then there's still room for 2 DreadKnights (at least in FOC - no idea of point values). Hold 2-3 PAGKs in Reserve until Turn 5 and teleport them onto objectives for the win.

 

Yes and no. Some things look to be very powerful, but they do have some interesting weaknesses. Like PAGKs only have one attack which can only be modified by a pricey upgrade. Also for an elite force, they seem to lack the good invulnerable save to shooting and FNP all over the place that other elite forces seem to have. This, combined with the fact that most HQs only come in terminator armor forces you to buy expensive transports unless you opt to just DS and footslog from there.

 

EDIT: Back on the topic of the GK SR, they also can only get a teleport homer rather than homing beacon and since The Summoning only counts as a DS move you're not going to get to ignore the scatter unless you've got a mystic close by --and those require an inquisitor which, in turn limits your GK HQ options.

[Deschenus Maximus]

They don't have libby dreads? :)?

[Noobtank]

It looks like GKs are now going to be the OP flavor-of-the-year. I have no idea of their point values, but 3 Stormravens full of Termies and a VenDread in tow all being summoned by a Libby Terminator Squad in a Command Land Raider will make for quite an impressive show of force in anybody's face! And then there's still room for 2 DreadKnights (at least in FOC - no idea of point values). Hold 2-3 PAGKs in Reserve until Turn 5 and teleport them onto objectives for the win.

 

I will definitely own a GK army very soon. :P

 

from what i heard from friends who has seen the codex,dreadknights are 130 pts,darn cheap of you ask me for a 4 wound 2+ armor and 4+ invul saves :)

[Tabgoi]

You know, I think SRs are a much larger force multiplier for other space marine forces than Blood Angels. The reason is very simple, we have lots of fast tanks and fast transports, other Space Marine chapters do not. Granted we have a big advantage in having dreads customized for close combat and others don't, but when you go from having no transports that can move more than 12 inches to getting a fast skimmer with the fire power of a Landraider that is a huge jump in mobility. The addition of the Storm Raven gives other chapters a much wider range of available tactics and I would be EXTREMELY surprised if it was not adopted more enthusiastically by them.

 

In terms of force org, for our codex the fast attack slots are at an extreme primium for us. If they tried to put teh storm raven in our fast attack spot it would see very little use. Heavy support is not nearly as important to us because if you are going for speed its pretty easy for us to avoid heavy support since we have two other spots to get dreads from and Baals are fast attack. In other codex their heavy support is at a primium as that is where all their predators are, their Landraiders, half their dreads, and a lot of their goodies. But fast attack really does not have as much in demand squads. It just makes sense to put them where they are.

[Isryion]

You know, I think SRs are a much larger force multiplier for other space marine forces than Blood Angels. The reason is very simple, we have lots of fast tanks and fast transports, other Space Marine chapters do not. Granted we have a big advantage in having dreads customized for close combat and others don't, but when you go from having no transports that can move more than 12 inches to getting a fast skimmer with the fire power of a Landraider that is a huge jump in mobility. The addition of the Storm Raven gives other chapters a much wider range of available tactics and I would be EXTREMELY surprised if it was not adopted more enthusiastically by them.

 

Maybe, but I do think a key to the Stormraven is that it can carry a dread into CC. There's also a synergy between our DoA units and the Stormraven, and I'm not talking about Skies of Blood, though that's part of it. I'm referring more to VV and units that can drop with pinpoint accuracy and eliminate threats to the Stormraven. I definitely understand the idea that it gives other forces something that they just don't have access to, but they also don't have the support around it to make it that much better. Of course, when they get new codices that might change and it will be interesting to see how it is used in the GK.

[d503]

aye, but if the stormraven is added to the next vanilla marine 'dex then its going to be carrying ironclad dreadnaughts into close combat, and those seismic hammers are really nasty.