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The Darkest Hour


LordOfSkyfall

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says who?nids have the amongst the most powerful phsycic ability in the universe, its possible they can figure it out...

 

We have Mephiston, one of the most powerful psykers in the Imperium, leading a conclave of librarians from almost every single BA successor. I am quite confident that they will be able to go "toe to toe" with the Tyranid pskyers. Plus, in the codex on page 17, under The Hives of Hollonon section, Mephiston and a hanfuld of marines withstand a Tyranid assault by themselves and manage to hold out until reinforcements arrive.

 

 

At Crimson Devil, not I have not read IA9. Could you tell me what it said about the Lamenters?

 

Sun Reaver

 

 

Come on brother, Meph is THE most powerful psyker. Don't let the Ultra propaganda get to ya .. :) The BA boys, 2nd foundings and GK's have got this one held down.

 

-CC

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@ Sun Reaver

 

"It was said of them by their fellow BA successors that they bore the grief for the loss of Sanguinius more keenly than any other, and in thier hearts they heard the screams and sorrow of all the martyrs who cried out for vengence across the cold stars."

 

The Lamenters are the only known 21st founding of Blood Angel geneseed and they have all of the rituals, orginization, and special equipment of thier parent chapter. Their bad luck has colored the chapter's heroic deeds to the point that some chapters will not fight along side them (The Mortifactors). To many they are outcasts among the Imperial forces with few friends or allies. It was the chapter's strong desire for fellowship and brotherhood that made them mistakenly choose the wrong side in the Badab war. I think if they were alive then they would have responded to Dante's call.

 

Until recently those falling to red thrist were few, but the curse is back stronger than ever.

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they hav only thefirst babdab war book out and are still waiting on the second....

 

IA10 has been out for a while now.

 

I think as long as Swallows does not end up writing the fluff for this battle we are good. I mean, since when do space marines of any chapter worship the Emperor as a god? Sorry, just read Black Tide two days ago, still upset by his repeated kicks to the balls of existing fluff, I'll stop now.

 

Many Chapters view the Emperor as a god. The Fire Angels for example. How could they not, 10 millennium of Imperial teachings would effect the chapters as new recruits are brought in. If you spend your entire life believing the Emperor is the GOD. The word heretic is used constantly by the authorities against anyone in trouble. How are you going to believe the Emperor was just a man even if a Space Marine tells you? The Marines have fallen to Chaos before, how can use trust anyone who doubts the Emperor's divinity?

 

The Index Astartes articles GW released related to how space marines veiw the Emperor are all quite clear, they veiw him as the greatest man who ever lived, but a man none the less. As it was the Emperor's command that he NOT be veiwed as a god I would assume he put it into the psychotherapy every space marine goes thru. So when that does its override of a man's brain in the course of becoming a space marine I am pretty sure it pushes out anything else they used to think. Some chapters may not believe this, it could be due to faulty or altered psychotherapy. The Blood Angels being a first founding though, my assumption would be that theirs is in tact, and they would uphold the old beliefs. This is specifically mentioned as a major point of contention between the chapters of the adeptus astartes and the rest of the Imperium, however despite their fervant belief even the most zealous Cardinal is not stupid enough to try and prosecute a space marine chapter for its beliefs as the retribution from the rest of the Astartes would be a terrible sight to behold. Long story short, per GW cannon, unless stated specifically otherwise in chapter doctrine, space marines do not view the Emperor as a God and see it heretical to view him as such. Otherwise they would have converted thousands of years ago, a sudden switch is just not going to happen.

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@ Sun Reaver

 

"It was said of them by their fellow BA successors that they bore the grief for the loss of Sanguinius more keenly than any other, and in thier hearts they heard the screams and sorrow of all the martyrs who cried out for vengence across the cold stars."

 

The Lamenters are the only known 21st founding of Blood Angel geneseed and they have all of the rituals, orginization, and special equipment of thier parent chapter. Their bad luck has colored the chapter's heroic deeds to the point that some chapters will not fight along side them (The Mortifactors). To many they are outcasts among the Imperial forces with few friends or allies. It was the chapter's strong desire for fellowship and brotherhood that made them mistakenly choose the wrong side in the Badab war. I think if they were alive then they would have responded to Dante's call.

 

Until recently those falling to red thrist were few, but the curse is back stronger than ever.

 

Ah, this is news to me. I will take back what I said earlier.

 

 

 

they hav only thefirst babdab war book out and are still waiting on the second....

 

IA10 has been out for a while now.

 

I think as long as Swallows does not end up writing the fluff for this battle we are good. I mean, since when do space marines of any chapter worship the Emperor as a god? Sorry, just read Black Tide two days ago, still upset by his repeated kicks to the balls of existing fluff, I'll stop now.

 

Many Chapters view the Emperor as a god. The Fire Angels for example. How could they not, 10 millennium of Imperial teachings would effect the chapters as new recruits are brought in. If you spend your entire life believing the Emperor is the GOD. The word heretic is used constantly by the authorities against anyone in trouble. How are you going to believe the Emperor was just a man even if a Space Marine tells you? The Marines have fallen to Chaos before, how can use trust anyone who doubts the Emperor's divinity?

 

The Index Astartes articles GW released related to how space marines veiw the Emperor are all quite clear, they veiw him as the greatest man who ever lived, but a man none the less. As it was the Emperor's command that he NOT be veiwed as a god I would assume he put it into the psychotherapy every space marine goes thru. So when that does its override of a man's brain in the course of becoming a space marine I am pretty sure it pushes out anything else they used to think. Some chapters may not believe this, it could be due to faulty or altered psychotherapy. The Blood Angels being a first founding though, my assumption would be that theirs is in tact, and they would uphold the old beliefs. This is specifically mentioned as a major point of contention between the chapters of the adeptus astartes and the rest of the Imperium, however despite their fervant belief even the most zealous Cardinal is not stupid enough to try and prosecute a space marine chapter for its beliefs as the retribution from the rest of the Astartes would be a terrible sight to behold. Long story short, per GW cannon, unless stated specifically otherwise in chapter doctrine, space marines do not view the Emperor as a God and see it heretical to view him as such. Otherwise they would have converted thousands of years ago, a sudden switch is just not going to happen.

 

Many space marine chapters due view the Emperor as a god. A prime example of this is the White Consuls chapter.

 

Also unusually the White Consuls seem to worship the Emperor as a god and seem to be part of the Imperial Cult, unlike most other Astartes Chapters.

 

Here is the link if you want to see it for yourself: White Consuls Lexicanum Entry

 

Sun Reaver

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Umm, per your link:

 

Also unusually the White Consuls seem to worship the Emperor as a god and seem to be part of the Imperial Cult, unlike most other Astartes Chapters

 

Right..... Thats what I said. What are you trying to get at?

 

Sun Reaver

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You said many worship him, your link says most do not. The meaning being that worship of the Emperor by a space marine chapter is the exception rather then the rule. The rule has always been that they do not, especially not a first founding chapter.

 

 

Edit: Accidentally type teh instead of the 5 times. And yes I only used the 5 times, stupid fat fingers....

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Hello Brother Blood Angels

 

I have been thinking over the last few hours about "The Darkest Hour" - the event at the turn of the 42 millenium... Not so hopeless as i see it :huh:

 

Consider this, we are told in the codex that all but the Lamenters (cowards) respond in some way to Baal's plee for help, with the entire Flesh Tearers chapter deployed to defend their perent legion and its home planet. Now exact figures are not given as to how many astartes from the our successors show up but we are told that Dante unites the surrounding star systems in defiance.

 

Lets say the other sucessors lend at least half there chapter to the defence of Baal, thats roughly 3900 - 4000 astartes (including the whole Blood Angels chapter) and even more if more are sent (up to 6400 with full chapter help excluding Lamenters), call me crazy but IMO thats a small legion in itsself and more than enough to hold off the attack from both Ka'Banda and the Nids.

 

Thoughts?

i think half of the marines from each chapter is hopeful. i think 2 companies would be the average. each chapter has to maintain it's own garrison numbers, as well as other commitments, and other threats closer to home. the way i see it is 2 companies for garrison, and 1-2 companies being deployed to other danger zones closer to home wouldn't be much of a stretch, so 2 companies would seem good. maybe more for a few other chapters that feel closer to their parent.

 

we'll use successor chapter A for an example

 

2 companies for garrison duty.

total available now 8 companies

3 hot zones that endanger chapter A's home system/planet

2 companies for each .

total available companies now 2.

that doesn't even include the fact that the 1st and 10th companies are almost always spread out in support of the other companies and almost never fight as a full company. if we include that it would look like

 

2 companies for garrison duty.

total available companies now 6

3 'local' hot zones endangering chapter A's home system/planet (well say 1 company each)

total available companies now 3

so like i said 2 would probably be average, 3 companies still believable amount, but 4 or 5 full companies i think would weaken most chapters too much. again Seth feels a strong bond with the parent chapter so commits his whole chapter, others who may feel a strong bond with the BA might send 5-6 chapters.

 

says who?nids have the amongst the most powerful phsycic ability in the universe, its possible they can figure it out...

 

We have Mephiston, one of the most powerful psykers in the Imperium, leading a conclave of librarians from almost every single BA successor. I am quite confident that they will be able to go "toe to toe" with the Tyranid pskyers. Plus, in the codex on page 17, under The Hives of Hollonon section, Mephiston and a hanfuld of marines withstand a Tyranid assault by themselves and manage to hold out until reinforcements arrive.

 

 

At Crimson Devil, not I have not read IA9. Could you tell me what it said about the Lamenters?

 

Sun Reaver

the nids make a blank or null spot in the warp. the warp is what provides psykers their powers, so according to 40k physics the very presence of the nids should

1. weaken the librarians psyker powers

2. weaken the deamons.

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