Highborn Mergula Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Hi there, as you all know Gk's are having a new codex wich seems very OP. because they teleport and so on and on..... Anyway i need tactics against thoose (My friend is starting thoose). What i was thinking was: Astorath with honour guards 4 with power waepons chapter Banner Jp's and 1power F thats 500P exactly but it's a mad killing unit they will kill allot i promise but what moore tacticcs should i have? shooty CC? what would you do? Thx in advance / /HB M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 First of all, we don't have official rules (I'm aware of the leaked dex, but it's not official and hence is unreliable). I expect lots of termies (seems like gk will have them as troops), so I'm going for PWs in my Vanguard and plasma in my Honor Guard (in my DoA list). As for mech list, I'd suggest meltas, assault cannons and a few lascannons to deal with ravens. I'd try to avoid hth with their paladins, although Sang Guard may chew them (which again heavily depends on official rules). I also think DC would be able to rip through most of their infantry, just take 8-10 men squads with chappies or Lemmy. It's price but it's an ustoppable ramming engine ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 your honour guard has one to many power weapon/fist the priest can't take equipment so you can only have a total of 4 (unless you want to waste points). I personally don't know much about the new GK's so I'll refrain from thinking up tactics for now. I did notice that their stormravens are fast attack instead of heavy support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highborn Mergula Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 Thx for replies though im hoping for more. I mean like Gk's will be the next tournament army 99,99%sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 dont bother with the power weapons on small squads- one of their nemesis weapons- halberd type- gives them +2I so you'll be striking after at least 2 or 3 gks in each squad. You'll want 2 libs to hood their powers, similar to playing eldar. Lots of dice is your best chance- load up on baals, plasmagun honour guard, sternguard, etc. You will struggle against them in cc, as its where they'll be best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 wait til people actually have he dex. its all mostly speculation. though i think sang priests will be less effective... yet i do think they will have an even lower army count than us. far lower... pointscosts usually offsets the big things people worry about (like how much more we pay or our veichles to be fast) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentL Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I'm not sure I'd want to get into CC with them... between the two types of weapons I read on their website (+2Init and 2+ Invun save in CC) they're either going to be striking first or just be an absolute pain to get rid of. I'd probably focus on things that can move and delivery heavy pay loads, storm ravens, baals, dakka preds, rifleman dreads that type thing, JP HG with Plasma Guns etc. Libby's for hood will be required, I'm pretty sure I read they can really screw over Deep Striking armies so that's something to think about to... though why a GK's who fight Demons can mess up guys in THunderhawks decending with Jet Packs is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 This thread will be reopened when the GK codex is ACTUALLY released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x01848m Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 My local GW got their black box last night, and I got a few minutes to glance through the new GK dex. The leaked dex was about 90% correct. My initial take is that GK are going to cause a lot of problems for BA. One thing in particular that stood out was their ability to change out force swords for Halberds, which do indeed give them +2 init in close combat. Their basic troop with Halberd ends up costing the same as a powerfist each, so this might be the one army we out number. But wow, Halberds will destroy our charges. And their ability to take basic terminators as troops, or 2-wound terminators (aka Paladins) as elites, which also can take Halberds, makes things even worse. The saving grace is that their basic troops only have 1 attack each, but still, it is a pw attack. But we can't count on priest led assault squad charges to carry the day with these things around. Dreadknights are only str 6 and toughness 6, and will end up costing around 200+ pts each after you add on their weapons and such. But heavy psycannons are large blast on these guys, not heavy 8 as the PDF suggested. So perhaps a BA mech list will fare well against them. But they are 4 wounds, 2+ armor, and 5+ invuln. I was relieved to see that Stormravens cannot carry Dreadknights, only Dreadnoughts, in their rear cargo. Dreadknights and Dreadnoughts are heavy support, while Stormravens are fast attack. It is true that if you take a Grandmaster, you can make d3 units scout, become scoring, gain counterattack, or a fourth thing I can't remember right now. But d3 outflanking stormravens with Dreadnoughts or d3 scoring Dreadknights is pretty scary. The 30" teleport thing once per game is true. Thankfully it is an upgrade that costs three powerfists, because you can put it on a Dreadknight. A 30" teleporting, scoring monstrous creature is crazy. I should mention that this teleport is not a deep strike. Think more like a Warp Spider type of move. They have a heavy mech element now, between rhinos, all three LR variants, and stormravens. In general, it looks like we will have to try and out-shoot them heavily for several rounds before getting stuck in with the remnants in the end game, and will likely need a good amount of plasma and lascannons thrown into our lists where possible (between crazy Dreadknights, terminators, and paladins) in addition to the melta. In that vein, I think Mort's triple attack bike squad with Multimeltas set-up is going to help even more than it did before, helping take out a variety of GK threats. Everything they have, including vehicles, is a psyker. So hoods will be essential. These are just some initial thoughts to get the ball rolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debauchery101 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 See anything about those jokaero? will we likely be seeing a bunch of space monkey obliterators spamming las cannons? I'm glad those dreadknights were adjusted to a more reasonable pricE and stat line as I see it I'm thinking a GK army is kinda like demons.... You potentially can do really well but there's a risk to it. It seems a lot of the more powerful abilities require psychic tests which could result in some bad juju. Just by making a quick list of 1500 points I found you could easily be making 10 tests a turn if you are casting defensive, hth, shooting and other abilites. Also low meq+ model count seems like it will be a problem. no matter what i still think ba can do well in all types of setups I think the dice and tactics will play the major roles against GK. It might be a good idea to have some throw away units when fighting these guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 again... all these abilitys sound good but with the costs etc im skeptical. the +2 init would hurt us, but probably wont make mch difference to things like nids eldar dark eldar and thunderhammer stuff etc. not too worried yet. given that greyknights are always low on models... yea i really aint worried. im also imagining that sisters of battle could have some serious fun against them, crossbows anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Firefocht Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 It might be a good idea to load up on the plasma weaponry when facing Grey Knights. It's the only way we can match firepower against the Grey Knights, especially when a single Grey Knight literally has twice the firepower of our average Tactical Marine. A few plasma cannons in a BA army will make the difference in a shooting match. I'm thinking of using a large Bike squad with T5 and a attached Librarian and Priest on bike to pull off charges against the PAGK squads. They might have power weapons, but we should be able to gain some advantage on the charge, since the power weapons without Hammerhand will still need to roll 5+ to wound the bikes. The Libby is there to help neutralize psychics powers like Hammerhand. I believe our BA codex already has the innate capability to take on the new GK and give us a decent chance of winning. Massed missile launchers can still knock out GK armor and Stormravens, Baal Predators with the flamestorm cannon and scout move will still cook those expensive PAGKs alive, and our Death Company, properly equipped with power weapons, will still continue to take down large numbers of Grey Knights albeit with increased casualties. Even the neglected Sternguard might make a comeback, with its ability to fire AP3 shots. GK Terminators are powerful, but are not harder to handle than the standard Space Marine Hammernators. The key lies in a change in our tactical thinking. DoA lists might be at a severe disadvantage due to Warp Quake, while balanced lists incorporating more Tactical Squads with plasma weapons and Devastators with massed missile launchers might appear more often. We would have to rely on our Priests to give us the resilience to withstand massed stormbolter and psycannon fire from the Grey Knights, while using our own low-AP weaponry to ignore their armor saves and kill as many as possible at range. Then our own elite Assault Units can sweep in and clean up. And always bring along a unit specially designed to kill the Vindicator assassin, like a Baal Predator or something. It sucks when your Priest is sniped by that bugger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 If people go nuts with giving every Grey Knight a force halberds it will be a very small army indeed. Every time a new army is released everybody says the sky is falling... :/ Look at it this way... if all they always pass all their psychic tests they are big bad mamma jammas... if they dont then they are simply overcosted Marines. G :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x01848m Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 True, reactions when a codex first come our are usually pretty strong, and then taper off. I remember when everyone got super scared about Harelequinns when the newest Eldar codex came out, but I never see them anymore. Anyway, one of my regular opponents has a Grey Knights force he is dusting off and going to use again with the new codex, so I am trying to prepare how to handle him with my Blood Angels. Thus I started this thread to get some ideas, as I had images of my assault squads hitting brick walls and falling apart. I will definitely have to change things up quite a bit from how I prepare for his Salamanders. And I also have an eye to the Nova tournament (2000pts, 8 games) in August, where I am expecting to face a few GK players. I don't know how things will play out over the next five months, but I am sure people will flock to Dreadknights and terminators as troops, since most take all comers lists aren't currently made to handle that. I am expecting some variation on a core of a Grandmaster, three terminator squads, one strike squad with psy-ammo in the back to hold an objective, and two Dreadknights. From there, maybe a Paladin squad or maybe a Purgation squad for hordes amongst other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 somehow i think theyl struggle to get thaat ammount of stuff in a 2 k list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I know the Grand Master can make non troop units scoring... does the GK player still have to take at least two actual troop choices? G :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Ok everyone, I've merged the two tactics threads and am reopening. Very simple rules going forward. This thread is entirely for discussing how BA should fight against GK. This is not a place for people to post rules for the new GK units or to ask questions about how some GK units work. Keep posts entirely to how we fight against GKs. People asking for rules will receive warnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 This is not a place for people to post rules for the new GK units or to ask questions about how some GK units work. Keep posts entirely to how we fight against GKs. People asking for rules will receive warnings. A very simple question about the rules of posting: can we at least mention what GK units we expect to fight with? I mean is it prohibited to say "the GK will likely field Termies with lots of high-initiative PWs, so we should better avoid HtH"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 This is not a place for people to post rules for the new GK units or to ask questions about how some GK units work. Keep posts entirely to how we fight against GKs. People asking for rules will receive warnings. A very simple question about the rules of posting: can we at least mention what GK units we expect to fight with? I mean is it prohibited to say "the GK will likely field Termies with lots of high-initiative PWs, so we should better avoid HtH"? Stuff like that is fine. Avoid stuff like giving out the stats units, particularly new units like the Dreadknight. Saying things like "they will probably have better initiative and lots of power weapons" is fine. Personally, I think the GKs will cause a major change in how we operate, but I haven't seen the codex yet and am going off of rumors. Units with high initiative power weapons is one of the worst case scenarios for my BAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 True. It will force us to play defensively, and mostly use mechanized force. Luckily we can field plasma Honor Guards (I imagine taking two of them), and Baal Preds should help. Maybe Las/Plas Razorbacks would also help. oh, and 4 PlasmaCannons Devastatros with Priests should do well. But unfortunately the GK will have Vindicare able to snipe our priests.... Anyway AP2 weapons are our friends now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d503 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I shall be using a jump pack epistolary with shield and sanguine sword, and putting him in a jump pack command squad. The force weapon at strength 10 will make very short work of dread knights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 If you go with Epistolary, wouldn't it be better to take Might of Heroes and Sword? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 not if you considerthay will likey block a power a turn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Here's a first attempt at anti-GK list, I've come up to (1850 list): + HQ + Librarian =100 Honor Guard (4xPlasmas) = 175 Razorback (Las/Plas, HK) = 100 Librarian =100 Honor Guard (4xPlasmas) = 175 Razorback (Las/Plas, HK) = 100 + ELITES + Sanguinary Priest (x2) = 100 + TROOPS + Tactical Squad (10 men, Combi-melta, MeltaGun, Missile Launcher) = 185 Tactical Squad (10 men, Combi-melta, MeltaGun, Missile Launcher) = 185 + FAST ATTACK + Baal Pred (TLAC w/HB, HK) = 155 Baal Pred (TLAC w/HB, HK) = 155 + HEAVY SUPPORT + Devastators (5 men, 4xPlasmaCannons) = 160 Devastators (5 men, 4xPlasmaCannons) = 160 TOTAL = 1850 ------------------------ This is just a scratch, maybe not playable enough, but it shows what low AP firepower we can take. Priests sit with Devastators to prevent overheating. Tacts hold objectives and provide AT-fire. Baals provide massive fire, as do HG with Libbies. Maybe it would be better to give Razorbacks to Tacts. Thoughts? Please, express your opinions and advice on improving :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d503 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 As blood angels, I am much more worried, but there are things that can stop them. I think a Landraider Redeemer is still a solid bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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