tactics against GK's

[Brother Nathan]

not quite sure a redeemer would be a great bet. as i think most, if not all grey knights have a 2+ armour and i thino the redeemer is only 3+? never mind that str 6 dosent insta kill and they arnt a horde army so templates wont make a huge difference. surely a crusader would be better...

[SnorriSnorrison]

From what I've heard, the "normal" GK has one attack unless equipped with Falchions, so I think that if we don't run into a full squad blindly or get charged(we're Blood Angels, after all!) the normal troops should not pose the major threat on the battlefield.

Even with halberds, some of our brothers will fall before they strike, but the rest will fight even more ferociusly to avenge the fallen.

 

What really can disturb our plans is their psychic powers, which they have plenty of, for example the warp quake(don't know the translation correctly) power that forces deepstriking units to pass a dangerous terrain test, or quickening(init 10...so not even Lemartes or Meph are safe from them NFW)....and those are not even the most horrible powers.

As mentioned, Librarians will be essential to block the army's strenght: psychic powers.

 

The dreadnights are better carnifexes, so lascannons and MM shall be sufficient for removing them, especially with the commonly used MM attack bikes/speeders and the like.

 

Their psykers are a real threat, I could imagine. And from what I've heard, there's a rule somewhere that reduces the LD of a psyker in a certain range(sorry for not being more precisely), so our hoods could be unsufficient for blocking their powers...which could have a terrible effect on our psychic defense.

 

 

Snorri

[Julius Firefocht]

It's not the power weapons that worry me. It's the S5 stormbolters with psi ammunition. Grey Knights hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s at range with that many shots will be far more dangerous than power weapons with one attack each.

 

Our priests become that much more important now, so we had better find a way to shut down the pesky Vindicare assassin.

[Emperors Immortals]

Well keep our priests in the rhino, and it will take at least 2 turns to kill them that way.

 

I predict an upsurge in mech followed by a return to mixed/DoA backed up with Devs.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It's still too early to tell.

 

G :)

[Cambrian]

...DoA backed up with Devs.

 

That's what I'm going with. If terrain allows it would be tempting to not deepstrike (against servo skulls you might not have a choice), or only deepstrike a portion.

 

Also deploying some squads close to the devs could counter an early combat rush from the GK Dreadknight.

[Taranis]

Knowing the enemy is wise. Changing one's army completly to counter one specific army appears unwise. Friendly games and using the strong points in our own codex will take us far.

It is good for any army to not focus on only one aspect of the game. Some need more than others to solve some of their battlefield tasks outside the assault phase.

[knife&fork]

Knowing the enemy is wise. Changing one's army completly to counter one specific army appears unwise. Friendly games and using the strong points in our own codex will take us far.

It is good for any army to not focus on only one aspect of the game. Some need more than others to solve some of their battlefield tasks outside the assault phase.

 

I don't think too many people here use tailored lists for every game. Analysing the new units and coming up with hard counters is just part of the process for tweaking your all comers list later.

[thor1234]

if mech seems to be the way BA fight the grey knights what about these fearsome loking Psy-rifle Dreads? our rhinos and razors will be ripped to pieces! I am thinking of loading up with a pair of libby's w/PG honour guards and sternguards maybe in drop pods with combi-meltas and plasmas, the Dreadknight could be downed with plasmas.....

[Gv0zD]

But once you've deployed the droppod troops and they'd slain some GKs, they're likely to be torn to poeces by the survivng GKs. IMHO we should keep the distance.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I'm fairly convinced that bolters are great against GK. 20 point per normal marines will suck. I will love seeing orks against gk. All those shootas are gonna cause trouble.

[Tamwulf]

A few things that come to mind: Blood Angels probably have the best chance of dealing with GK out of all the other PA armies.

 

Plasma, armor, and sheer weight of firepower are the keys in defeating GK. Plasma, as it has a better range then Melta and wounds all the GK on a 2+. Weight of firepower will be the key to thinning out the ranks as you engage. They will more then likely get a save against any kind of shooting you throw at them. Pour the firepower on them!

 

GK's have the same problem now as they did before- the squads themselves have no way of dealing with high armor except on their vehicles. This is not the case in close combat, as even the Terminators have Frag/Krak grenades, and the psychic power Hammer Hand ensures their ability to damage most basic transports. With the costs of most troops in the Codex being 25+ points, you won't see many vehicles. The exceptions will be dreadnoughts and Storm Ravens that cost the same as other PA Codex options, yet get all the GK advantages. Another exception will be Inquisitors and the "Space Monkeys" that are basically Oblitorators. These guys can dish out the punishment, but they certainly can't take it.

 

For the assault: You'll have to accept that you will lose a significant amount of your force on initiative 6 to Force Weapons. The "basic" GK trooper only has one attack. Guess what? No one will be taking them! The GK Special Characters make just about every other unit a troops choice within the codex. All of those units all have 2+ attacks. The temptation to load up on small, expensive squads with all power weapons to take them on will not work out in your favor. The GK are already a small, elite force, and they have all the advantages here. The best bet will be the humble Tactical/Assault squad, with minimum upgrades, and a Liberian nearby for his psychic hood. Sanguinary Priests will be pretty useless in close combat with GK- they all have Force Weapons, even the basic troops! Expect to see the return of a classic assassin: The Vindicare Assassin and his ability to pick out individual models.

 

Another positive for the Blood Angels is that the GK will probably take few, if any, vehicles. The expense of basic troops combined with the fact that just about everything in a GK list can Deepstrike will limit the vehicles to probably a Storm Raven or Dreadnoughts. The highest armor you are likely to face is AV 12. It will become imperative to have a BA Librarian nearby with his psychic hood, as most of the GK vehicles have Psychic Pilots that have LD 10, and if they pass a Psychic Test, they ignore Crew Shaken/Crew Stunned results.

 

Some possible list ideas: A Vindicator tank, flanked on both sides by Baal Preds with Assault Cannons and Heavy Bolters. A Land Raider Crusader with assault Termy's loaded with T-Hammers and Storm Shields flanked by Baal Preds. Funny how effective this combo is against all army types, eh? Two Storm Raven Gunships with Heavy Bolters, Plasma Cannons, and Hurricane Bolters carrying 10x Tactical Squads with Plasma and Furioso Dreads with Blood Talons to maximize wounds.

 

A big problem a lot of armies will have in a tournament setting with GK involved will be how much do you change your army to deal with the GK threat and still be effective against other armies?

 

A Blood Angels list tooled to take on GK will lose some of it's effectiveness against other threats in a tournament environment. Hopefully, the other participants will change their lists as well to deal with the GK threat. Thus, any changes made will cancel each other out.

 

Interestingly enough, only PA armies will really have to change to take on the GK. All the other armies will pretty much be able to treat them as "just another PA army" and continue with whatever tactics they use when dealing with the Grey Knights. Sure, you'll have to be careful throwing the mutil-wound stuff at so many Force Weapons, but I really doubt we will be seeing a lot of Ork players or Space Wolf players stop taking Nobs/Thunder Wolves just because of the GK "threat". Those models are too good not to take.

 

The GK put a new twist on the tournament environment. However, the Blood Angels are perhaps the best suited to take them on. Good luck!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I am going to pretty much keep playing my same list.

 

G :blush:

[Artemis360]

I had this idea about how to deal with their elite squads in CC. I'm going to try and get a scout squad of 5 and charge with a full assault squad with priest and chaplain etc, or use DC or something, you get the idea. The scouts will go into B2B contact with all the force halberds and what have you and force the GKs allocate their attacks on them. It'll net them 5 wounds, meanwhile, you let rip with a bunch of pretty hard hitting attacks.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don't think Devs are going to be of that much use versus Grey Knights - supposedly they all have a 2+ armor save so unless you run lascannon, multi-melta of plasma cannon those missiles are just going to bounce off. Grey Knights can deep strike so you'll at best get off one turn of shooting then they aet your Devs for breakfast. I'd rather run a squad of Honor Guard with jump packs and four plasmaguns... Twice as many AP2 shots, they can move and shoot, plus you can screen them with other units that charge a depleted unit for the kill.

 

G :ermm:

[BA.Rauk]

If people wind up running an all Terminators GK list then it would be an incredibly easy to deal with force. They will be even smaller then us in most cases and they suffer from the lack of much shooting over 24''. A big part of taking them down will end up being based upon whether or not your Angels can lower their numbers with shooting outside of their range before moving in to mop them up in assault. Sadly, DoA doesn't seem like it's going to have much to stand up to them save excessive use of plasma honor guards and praying you get more of them to die then you before the inevitable assault.

 

 

Fact of the matter is, they are going to kick the snot out of us in assault most of the time, but if they have halberds on everything we can ultimately use superior numbers to win out. Full squads of power weapons or not, if they don't have the halberds to boost their initiative, they'll die like any other MeQ to our Furious Charge. It's going to all be in how balanced you can make your force and just how much high powered shooting you can stack in your favor to support your assault elements.

 

I do see the use of Baal Predators taking a backseat to Typhoon Speeders and MM bike squads for sure. AC/Las predators and ML / Las Dev squads will find even more use and Tactical squad may actually find a use again, seeing as having to balance our shooting will force us to have a good half of our lists static. And oh how it saddens me to think of Mephiston being chumped left right and center in assault, depending how many GK players end up in my area I may or may not have to look to an alternative HQ choice. :(

[Brother Israfil]

Maybe we could see the re-emergence of our blessed Brother Librarians in dreadnoughts. This will be giving us more hoods to work with. This combined with a DC heavy force, allowing us to take even more dreadnoughts might help getting their high cost units a run for their money and us a turn or 2 to deal with what they throw or Deep Strike at us with.

 

Another thought is matching air support for air support. Allowing them to take the skys from us is unacceptable. :P

 

I would also like to know, who by chance wrote their codex?

 

Good Hunting Brothers,

[Gv0zD]

I would also like to know, who by chance wrote their codex?

IIRC it's Matt Ward.

 

The good thing we can take up to 5 psychic hoods with jumppacks :cuss also our plasma HG and Dakka Baals may outshoot GK easily. The GK teleporting abilities can spoil the day, but I bet that our plasma devs may really rock.

[Emperors Immortals]

I think that there short fire range will be less of a problem then we think, IIRC they can shot through cover (no LOS) and also teleport short distances over the battlefield.

 

We can still do it though, DC tarpit on a flank with denied LoS sounds about right to me.

[Brother Nathan]

also you can never go wrong with a fast vindicator :tu:

[Electrolytes]

Think this calls for 3 outflanking Baal Preds with Flamestorm cannons. HALBERD THIS. xD

[billga]

I will pretty much being using a list very similar to what I run now. I always try to play generic non-tailored lists myself. Biggest difference for me will be the reappearance of my Multi-Melta attack bike squad, as well as a second Vindicator in pretty much all lists (I already run a four missile launcher dev-squad most all the time). My Drop Pod Furioso, which is in every game, will also go back to being a Librarian so that I'm sure to have a Ld10 hood in their lines turn one. From what we have seen list wise (and we have the actual 'dex at home), most GK armies will be at <50 figs with 3-8 pieces of armor @2,500. Overall though for BAs, as long as you pack as much S8+ in your list as possible you should be more than competitive. And remember, that the same S7-8 weapons that are the bane of our Stormravens/Rhino/Razorbacks will destroy theirs just the same. We've gone against Paladins already and noone was impressed for the points they cost. I think you'll see a lot less of those than people are talking about right now. Vindicare is an absolute PitA, but he dies if he fails one save normally (he has never killed more than 2 figures or 1 figure/1 vehicle in a game we've played). Tactics wise the most important thing we have seen is that you absolutely must NOT, NOT, NOT allow their scary units to multi-charge, it's the only way the very expensive units can get their points/equivalent off the board most games.

[Highborn Mergula]

 

Thus I started this thread to get some ideas,

I started this thread... :ermm: Have you been dreaming again? :P

[JamesI]

 

Thus I started this thread to get some ideas,

I started this thread... :ermm: Have you been dreaming again? :P

Two threads on the same topic were merged.

[Highborn Mergula]

 

Thus I started this thread to get some ideas,

I started this thread... :ermm: Have you been dreaming again? :P

Two threads on the same topic were merged.

Still i started the thread. :P