Abaddon25 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I'm pretty sure you can't do this but I had a heated discusion during a battle. If My DP is in an Assault with an enemy Dreadnaught, no other Dreadnaught could fire at him. I say this is true. Tho my opponent states that Monsterous creatures can be targeted during a fire phase. The rule book states that you cannot fire at an enemy that is locked in HTH combat with one of your troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Baring some kind of special rule to override it (Vindicare Assassin I believe can) no one can fire into a combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptinLoken Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I think when the rule is said to ... you can fire at the MC it is for in the situation where he is mixed around infantry. It is a universal rule that he can be targeted directly for when allowed to be fired at. It is hands down not allowed to target a model in Close combat. Thus ... If the situation was a DP in a unit of Krone berserkers. Both the size of the model plus the model being MC can I shoot a preds weapons only at the DP if I so wish and wound him directly. The reason for this is the Nids use to have a rule SHOOT THE BIG ONE. .. From this the universial MC rules made it so you can target any MC on the field any time your allowed to fire at it. Short hand NO ... the rule to fire at MC is about showing how Independent characters can hide in unites while MC can not. It also specifies CC you can not shoot at units locked in CC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_ Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 If the situation was a DP in a unit of Krone berserkers. DP aren't Indenpendant Characters. DP cannot join the Berserkers. The rule on MC explains how their cover saves work (seeing less than half of their body give them a low profile as opposed to simple figs for which you look at their unit). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Nobody - barring the current Vindicare assassin - can fire into a close combat, period; it doesn't matter what the target is. He was wrong. However, he can fire a blast weapon at a unit near the combat and hope it scatters into it and kills some; that is perfectly acceptable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 This appears to be confusion caused by fantasy rules to me. In fantasy if a cavalry or monster model was in a unit with infantry they could be singled out and shot. This is not the case in 40k. In either case you couldnt fire into close combat, save with scattering templates. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddon25 Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 thanks to all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Ed Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 It is also worth noting that walkers, unlike most vehicles, ARE actually locked in CC. If the DP was trying to kill a tank in CC, he is not locked and can be targeted by shooting as normal. Walkers are an exception. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The rule your freind is reffering to is a rule that says independent characters that are also monsterous creatures can be targeted independently from the unit they are attached to in the shooting phase. This rule will never come into play however as there are NO monsterous creature independent characters Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The rule your freind is reffering to is a rule that says independent characters that are also monsterous creatures can be targeted independently from the unit they are attached to in the shooting phase. This rule will never come into play however as there are NO monsterous creature independent characters Hive Tyrant? Edit: Oh yeah, oops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptinLoken Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Hive Guard can attach to a Tyrant and give it a cover save actually over turning the rule that MC can be picked out. It a codex Nid rule thou. SO In CC NO firing directly on MC, and Always except with rules normally with LOS. Doesn't the BA have a SC that is MC and IC? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Nobody - barring the current Vindicare assassin - can fire into a close combat, period; it doesn't matter what the target is. He was wrong. However, he can fire a blast weapon at a unit near the combat and hope it scatters into it and kills some; that is perfectly acceptable. It is worth noting one of the grey knight special characters (Lord Kamarzov... spelling) has an orbital bombardment that he can centre on one of his own models and that model can be in combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I think it's probably a confusion with the 4th edition rules where monsterous creatures could be shot in close combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 It is worth noting one of the grey knight special characters (Lord Kamarzov... spelling) has an orbital bombardment that he can centre on one of his own models and that model can be in combat.His rules set has not yet been released, so I didn't think it pertinent. Also I axed it because I mentioned the current sniper, not the future one. The future one won't be able to I think :D. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Doesn't the BA have a SC that is MC and IC? nope Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2685880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhg Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Doesn't the BA have a SC that is MC and IC? You're probably thinking of Mephiston. He has comparable stats to an MC in many respects, but is not an IC. +1 for no shooting into combat without a specific exemption from the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2686189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Nor is he a monsterous creature... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2686423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Hive Guard can attach to a Tyrant and give it a cover save actually over turning the rule that MC can be picked out. It a codex Nid rule thou. SO In CC NO firing directly on MC, and Always except with rules normally with LOS. Doesn't the BA have a SC that is MC and IC? Actualy not quite. Again the Tyrant is not an IC, dispite the ability to be attached to hive guard. There is no rule that MC can be picked out, the rule is that IC that are also MC can be picked dout. Im the current enviroment there are no IC that are also MC, and unless I am remembering incorectly there has not been sense 3rd edition where TMC were defined as IC and MC. The coversave thing is also simple aplications of the standard rules, we space marines do it with thunderfire cannons frequently (with the techmarine able to give the cannon a coversave). Aditionaly tyranid primes (as well as the parrasite of whatever it is) can attachthemselves to carnifex, providing the carnifex with coversaves in the same manner. Again its not so much a tyranid rule, as they are simply the only codex (to date) that is able to have mixed units of infantry and MC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2686498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 It is worth noting one of the grey knight special characters (Lord Kamarzov... spelling) has an orbital bombardment that he can centre on one of his own models and that model can be in combat.His rules set has not yet been released, so I didn't think it pertinent. Also I axed it because I mentioned the current sniper, not the future one. The future one won't be able to I think :D. Ahh I know but I wanted people to have that in mind rather than get into a game and say no only the vindicare can! and my group has started using the new grey knight dex now and I imagine others (I mean the hard copy not web pdf) so I thought it was worth stating -_- It wasn't meant to belittle you more add to what you had said and remember unless the WHs get an FAQ they will still have an old vindicare that will be able to do stuff even while those working for the Grey Knights won't be able to! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224521-monsterous-creatures/#findComment-2686635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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