Lone Wolves and Fenrisian Wolves.

[Grimtooth]

I am sitting in a windshield place getting my truck window replaced and this came to mind.

 

IC with Fenrisian Wolves fight as two seperate units in close combat due to the rules for the IC. What about Lone Wolves with Fenrisian Wolves? The wolvea re wargear, but nothing compels you to treat them as seperate units in close combat IIRC. So in close combat, the Lone Wolf could put power weapon attacks on the wolves before he places them on himself?

[MalachiOfRuss]

As far as I understand it: yes. In that case the Lone Wolf is not an IC so those wolves act as a "squad."

[Forté]

Don't think that's possible at all. The power weapon attacks only apply to the model armed as such.

 

Plus, a wolf has no thumbs!

[The Rose Princes]

Don't think that's possible at all. The power weapon attacks only apply to the model armed as such.

 

Plus, a wolf has no thumbs!

wow......... i think you need to slow down and re-read the original post again.

 

yes Ramses, you can do that.

[Grimtooth]

Don't think that's possible at all. The power weapon attacks only apply to the model armed as such.

 

Plus, a wolf has no thumbs!

wow......... i think you need to slow down and re-read the original post again.

 

yes Ramses, you can do that.

 

I have not used a single Lone Wolf in any of my gaming, but have used a Wolf Lord extensively with Fenrisian wolves as wargear.

 

This would make for some nice wound allocation allowing the Lone Wolf to only deal with attacks that should he fail, would not negate his FnP.

[Forté]

Don't think that's possible at all. The power weapon attacks only apply to the model armed as such.

 

Plus, a wolf has no thumbs!

wow......... i think you need to slow down and re-read the original post again.

 

yes Ramses, you can do that.

Please don't take my last reply as being rude. Maybe should have put a smiley after the thumbs thing.

 

Rules wise, as far as I'm aware. Only a model in a unit can benefit from the wargear and weapons it carries. If it works the way suggested then in theory, a wolf could benefit from a lone wolf carrying a frost blade or powerfist.

[postal105]

yes but when it comes to wound allocation from an attacking unit the wolves are viable targets for the wounds from the power weapons.

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

Please don't take my last reply as being rude. Maybe should have put a smiley after the thumbs thing.

 

Rules wise, as far as I'm aware. Only a model in a unit can benefit from the wargear and weapons it carries. If it works the way suggested then in theory, a wolf could benefit from a lone wolf carrying a frost blade or powerfist.

 

The reason someone suggested you read the OP again wasn't because they thought you were rude, it's because you misunderstood the question. It's not about the wolves using the power weapon of the lone wolf (we all agree they can't do that), but about when the lone wolf is being attacked by a power weapon, and whether those power weapon hits can be allocated to the fenrisian wolves (which they can) in order to avoid losing FNP on the lone wolf due to power weapons.

[Forté]

:huh:

Oh great...how foolish do I feel right now.

 

That a huge yes you can. Pretty sure you can when its an IC too as they are his wargear so are part of him and not a separate unit. This is one of the main reasons for taking them.

 

Now I'll go hide my head in shame.

[Kassill]

:o

Oh great...how foolish do I feel right now.

 

That a huge yes you can. Pretty sure you can when its an IC too as they are his wargear so are part of him and not a separate unit. This is one of the main reasons for taking them.

 

Now I'll go hide my head in shame.

 

 

Hahaha, it's ok laddie, we all make those mistakes from time to time! :D

[Valerian]

:huh:

Oh great...how foolish do I feel right now.

 

That a huge yes you can. Pretty sure you can when its an IC too as they are his wargear so are part of him and not a separate unit. This is one of the main reasons for taking them.

 

Now I'll go hide my head in shame.

 

I thought it was addressed in the SW FAQ that they count as separate units in CC, although they are wargear. I'm positive the FAQ says this for ICs with Fen-Wolves. If it isn't that way with Lone Wolves also I would be surprised. Will have to double-check when I get off of the iPhone.

 

Valerian

[postal105]

the faq says with reguards to IC's bu tas the lone wolf is not a IC i dont think it works the same way

Q. Do Fenrisian Wolves bought as wargear by an

Independent Character act as a Retinue during an

assault? (p31)

A. No – the Independent Character may still be singled out

even though his Fenrisian Wolves are still alive. For

example, a unit of Blood Claws is joined by a Wolf Lord

with two Fenrisian Wolves as wargear. In an assault, the

enemy would be able to direct his attacks towards three

separate targets – the Blood Claws, the Wolf Lord, or the

Fenrisian Wolves.

[Valerian]

the faq says with reguards to IC's bu tas the lone wolf is not a IC i dont think it works the same way

Q. Do Fenrisian Wolves bought as wargear by an

Independent Character act as a Retinue during an

assault? (p31)

A. No – the Independent Character may still be singled out

even though his Fenrisian Wolves are still alive. For

example, a unit of Blood Claws is joined by a Wolf Lord

with two Fenrisian Wolves as wargear. In an assault, the

enemy would be able to direct his attacks towards three

separate targets – the Blood Claws, the Wolf Lord, or the

Fenrisian Wolves.

 

Yeah, thanks for that. So it only addresses one aspect (FWs with ICs), but leaves the non-IC half up to our interpretation. I think I'll continue to be conservative and count them as separate units in close combat.

 

Valerian

[Forté]

Sounds like the sporting thing to do.

[Grimtooth]

Sounds like the sporting thing to do.

 

How is it sporting? You are giving a non-IC, IC rules by allowing him to be a seperate unit in close combat.

[MalachiOfRuss]

Note that there are advantages to having the Fen Wolves as their own squad. Remember that a unit has to allocate attacks to whatever they are in base contact with. So, if you are getting the charge, you can put the wolves on some of the enemy's more dangerous units, especially if they are going first (like Incubii). In that case, any models in base contact with the wolves need to attack the Fen Wolf "squad." They will almost certainly be wiped out, but all of those attacks will go into the low-value unit, leaving the Wolf Lord protected to do his thing.

[Grimtooth]

Note that there are advantages to having the Fen Wolves as their own squad. Remember that a unit has to allocate attacks to whatever they are in base contact with. So, if you are getting the charge, you can put the wolves on some of the enemy's more dangerous units, especially if they are going first (like Incubii). In that case, any models in base contact with the wolves need to attack the Fen Wolf "squad." They will almost certainly be wiped out, but all of those attacks will go into the low-value unit, leaving the Wolf Lord protected to do his thing.

 

This isn't about wolf lords.

 

Lone Wolves are not IC so should not get the protection of being able to force attack/wound allocation upon units that are assaulting him and his Fenrisian Wolves. Lone Wolves are not IC so no unit can allocate attacks, both regular and special, against him. They go to the unit which consists of him and his Fenrisian Wolves. As it is right now, the attacks go into the squad, with wounds being allowed to be allocated into the squad.

[Forté]

Sounds like the sporting thing to do.

 

How is it sporting? You are giving a non-IC, IC rules by allowing him to be a seperate unit in close combat.

It's sporting because your using the same rule for both IC and non-IC. Saving confusion by your opponent.

 

If you want full clarification the best bet may be to contact GW themselves.

 

Personally, I think you should be able to assign cc hits to them as they're bought as wargear and not as a bodyguard unit.

[Grimtooth]

Sounds like the sporting thing to do.

 

How is it sporting? You are giving a non-IC, IC rules by allowing him to be a seperate unit in close combat.

It's sporting because your using the same rule for both IC and non-IC. Saving confusion by your opponent.

 

If you want full clarification the best bet may be to contact GW themselves.

 

Personally, I think you should be able to assign cc hits to them as they're bought as wargear and not as a bodyguard unit.

 

So I can claim all my Wolf Guard are IC when in a single unit so as to avoid confusion thus letting me make sure that all attacks and wounds must be allocated? In fact, every model in my army is now an IC to avoid confusion since I will only be using one rule for them the whole game.

 

It isn't convenient nor sporting to your opponent to pick a rule that benefits you and pretty much creates another IC on the table at your whim.

[MalachiOfRuss]

This isn't about wolf lords.

 

Lone Wolves are not IC so should not get the protection of being able to force attack/wound allocation upon units that are assaulting him and his Fenrisian Wolves. Lone Wolves are not IC so no unit can allocate attacks, both regular and special, against him. They go to the unit which consists of him and his Fenrisian Wolves. As it is right now, the attacks go into the squad, with wounds being allowed to be allocated into the squad.

I know the OP was about Lone Wolves. I posted the above because the comparison with IC and their Fen Wolves came up.

[Valerian]

Note that there are advantages to having the Fen Wolves as their own squad. Remember that a unit has to allocate attacks to whatever they are in base contact with. So, if you are getting the charge, you can put the wolves on some of the enemy's more dangerous units, especially if they are going first (like Incubii). In that case, any models in base contact with the wolves need to attack the Fen Wolf "squad." They will almost certainly be wiped out, but all of those attacks will go into the low-value unit, leaving the Wolf Lord protected to do his thing.

 

Hmm. I suppose that there are advantages either way you play it. If you treat the Lone Wolf as a separate unit from the Fen-Wolves, then you could lock a more dangerous enemy (Sergeant with Powerfist, for example) with the Wolves in B2B and therefor avoid taking those wounds on the LW. However, if you treat them all as a single unit, then there is also an advantage, in that you can allocate wounds to the Fen-Wolves, that you wouldn't be able to do if the LW was treated as a separate unit. So, if that same Sergeant with Power Fist assaults and gets B2B contact with you LW, you can shed off those PF hits to your Fen-Wolves instead of risking your LW.

 

I always interpreted the FAQ to be an explanation of how wargear Fenrisian Wolves should be treated (as separate units), and not necessarily just an explanation of how ICs work. So my intent is not to try and treat a non-IC as an IC, but to try and treat all units with wargear Fen-Wolves in a manner that is consistent with how the FAQ writers have demonstrated that Fen-Wolves work for at least one unit type (ICs) that can take them.

 

V

[MalachiOfRuss]

I believe the intention is for a Lone Wolf and his Fen Wolves to be considered a "squad."

[Freman Bloodglaive]

That's the way I play it. Just like an Iron Priest on a thunderwolf is a unit with the 4 cyberwolves that run around with him.

 

It kept a basically naked (motw) Lone Wolf alive against a power fist for two turns for me one game.

[Grimtooth]

Note that there are advantages to having the Fen Wolves as their own squad. Remember that a unit has to allocate attacks to whatever they are in base contact with. So, if you are getting the charge, you can put the wolves on some of the enemy's more dangerous units, especially if they are going first (like Incubii). In that case, any models in base contact with the wolves need to attack the Fen Wolf "squad." They will almost certainly be wiped out, but all of those attacks will go into the low-value unit, leaving the Wolf Lord protected to do his thing.

 

Hmm. I suppose that there are advantages either way you play it. If you treat the Lone Wolf as a separate unit from the Fen-Wolves, then you could lock a more dangerous enemy (Sergeant with Powerfist, for example) with the Wolves in B2B and therefor avoid taking those wounds on the LW. However, if you treat them all as a single unit, then there is also an advantage, in that you can allocate wounds to the Fen-Wolves, that you wouldn't be able to do if the LW was treated as a separate unit. So, if that same Sergeant with Power Fist assaults and gets B2B contact with you LW, you can shed off those PF hits to your Fen-Wolves instead of risking your LW.

 

I always interpreted the FAQ to be an explanation of how wargear Fenrisian Wolves should be treated (as separate units), and not necessarily just an explanation of how ICs work. So my intent is not to try and treat a non-IC as an IC, but to try and treat all units with wargear Fen-Wolves in a manner that is consistent with how the FAQ writers have demonstrated that Fen-Wolves work for at least one unit type (ICs) that can take them.

 

V

 

The FAQ is exclusive to an IC because it is out of necessity. Otherwise it would have been directed soley to pertain to how Fenrisian wolves as wargear apply, not to how they apply to IC since the codex allows non IC units to take Fenrisian/Cyber wolves. Lone Wolves and Iron Priests as the examples.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I am sitting in a windshield place getting my truck window replaced and this came to mind.

 

IC with Fenrisian Wolves fight as two seperate units in close combat due to the rules for the IC. What about Lone Wolves with Fenrisian Wolves? The wolvea re wargear, but nothing compels you to treat them as seperate units in close combat IIRC. So in close combat, the Lone Wolf could put power weapon attacks on the wolves before he places them on himself?

 

The FAQ only relates to ICs, so that is all it *has to* get played as.

If you and your buddies want to play it for Lone Wolves too, cool. But you don't have to and your foe doesn't have anything to stand on to oblige you to.

 

 

 

*Has to: as in, we pretty much all treat FAQs as proper rulings, regardless of GW not wanting to be a responsible leader and facilitator of our games. :P