Official Grey Knights Codex open for viewing in GW stores

[Quillen]

It's about listing things that can help us figure out what will work. In all honesty I am not scare of this Grey Knight lists. People were freaked out way back when, and I always won against them. They seem a little more beefy-er this time around. I like eating stakes thou. So we will have to see how they work to know for sure. And if it's like alot of Codex of late it will have 2 or 3 builds which are really scarey. And so we will have to learn to deal with each of them.

 

Yes they can deal with alot. And so can we. Are codex has a ton of flexablilty with a ton of different options to cause them problems. They will be billy-bob bad-asses, but only few of them. We will have a small number edge. This should give us the edge. And they will be learning too. So we will have the edge of knowing our units while they figure theirs out at first.

 

My question is, Can they allie with us still? If so I might buy some of the termies to paint. No point if I have to buy an army. No moolah for that.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

4d6 PEN...1 shot, not shots. Smoke can help, but you are assuming a lot; including who is going first and the basic rules of the models. Actual table top outcomes cannot be predicted in glass box scenarios.

 

True, 1 shot, but at BS 8, so a hit is a given. If no cover it will almost certainly be a pen. I am actually more worried about the assassin if he is around when the Rune Priest is knocked out of his transport. The assassin can essentially auto-hit a squad with two wounds, and the assassin's player get's to put those AP1 wounds where he wants to, so bye bye Rune Priest.

 

Luckily GK can only take one, and luckily he is only toughness 4 two wound model. But he is going to be high up on the target priority list. If GK's go second he isn't as scary of course.

[Lord Ragnarok]

It's about listing things that can help us figure out what will work. In all honesty I am not scare of this Grey Knight lists. People were freaked out way back when, and I always won against them. They seem a little more beefy-er this time around. I like eating stakes thou. So we will have to see how they work to know for sure. And if it's like alot of Codex of late it will have 2 or 3 builds which are really scarey. And so we will have to learn to deal with each of them.

 

Yes they can deal with alot. And so can we. Are codex has a ton of flexablilty with a ton of different options to cause them problems. They will be billy-bob bad-asses, but only few of them. We will have a small number edge. This should give us the edge. And they will be learning too. So we will have the edge of knowing our units while they figure theirs out at first.

 

My question is, Can they allie with us still? If so I might buy some of the termies to paint. No point if I have to buy an army. No moolah for that.

 

No more allies.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

My question is, Can they allie with us still?

 

Not when the codex is out officially, no.

 

 

Damn ninjas

[hmk17]

4d6 PEN...1 shot, not shots. Smoke can help, but you are assuming a lot; including who is going first and the basic rules of the models. Actual table top outcomes cannot be predicted in glass box scenarios.

 

True, 1 shot, but at BS 8, so a hit is a given. If no cover it will almost certainly be a pen. I am actually more worried about the assassin if he is around when the Rune Priest is knocked out of his transport. The assassin can essentially auto-hit a squad with two wounds, and the assassin's player get's to put those AP1 wounds where he wants to, so bye bye Rune Priest.

 

Luckily GK can only take one, and luckily he is only toughness 4 two wound model. But he is going to be high up on the target priority list. If GK's go second he isn't as scary of course.

 

Correct, in the same way a wall of lazbacks is less scary when they are going second. But remember that sometimes there is a priority to things. If you see 4 rhinos, 3 Dreadknights, 2 Storm Ravens, and a Vindicare... not all targets are equal there.

 

Well, he can target individual models; but essentially, yes. A Vindicare will try to drop the Rune Priest if it is in the open. Using a Turbo Pen: a 3+ hits, 4+ wounds. Dead Rune Priest taking 2 wounds off the special ammo. Though truthfully any of the assassins are handfuls, serving as key distractions or removing pieces of the opponent. And if multiple Assassins (different temples) are running around, things can be hectic pinning down a kill priority. With 4++, 6+ FNP, and Stealth, Assassins can be stubborn to remove at range if they find some good cover. Forcing rolls always works well, a Grey Hunter squad fits that roll better than Long Fangs for much less.

 

That's the point DV8 was making, GK's are going to try to flush the Rune Priests out so they know where they are, at least. Their range only goes so far and it can be worked around. Beyond assassins and specific anti-psyker stuff, these are space marines still.

 

 

Monkey spam is a different animal all together. (Literally)

 

 

Unless there is a good transport shunting / deep striking super build that no one has figured out yet, it seems like GK will be a lot of Psycannon spam in Rhinos, with probably some dreads. We have a lot of shooty things, and we have a good anti-psycher powers. CC isn't going to work so well, but it seems like we'll be able to hold our own alright.

 

Well, that's not accurate. Remember, there are several different play style armies can be made from the book. And they might not have any Grey Knights either.

 

10 man PAGK's with 2 Psycannons in a Rhino runs just under 300 pts. That's a lot of points crammed in there. Granted it is better than an Assault Cannon Razorback. You just won't see that much spam there, more of a basic backbone to work from if you are playing actual grey kngihts. The Dreadnoughts are quickly becoming stars. But they have enough shooty to answer back anything we can put up.

 

Also, what good anti-psyker powers do we have? Oh wait... nothing. The only anti-psyker are the Runic Weapon (not a power), Runic Armor (not a power), and the Wolf Tail Talisman (still not a power). And the majority is against offensive powers. Grey Knights have a lot of buffs and non-offensive powers.

 

We DO have board control powers though. A lot of deep striking means the basics we learned against the Blood Angels will work here too.

 

Most builds of Space Wolves will hold their own. Others will surpasses and there are others that will get eaten. It depends on what you bring and what the opponent is bringing.

[Emperors Immortals]

For the allying question, not officialy.

 

I have almost 8000 pts of assorted Vraaks inspired troopers who would disagree though....long live Apocalypse!

[DV8]

That's the point DV8 was making, GK's are going to try to flush the Rune Priests out so they know where they are, at least. Their range only goes so far and it can be worked around. Beyond assassins and specific anti-psyker stuff, these are space marines still.

 

Indeed! With some exceptions (Psyflemen Dreadnoughts, Vindicares, and Storm Ravens, to name a few), most of the Grey Knight firepower will be within that 24" range (even Psycannons are only 24"), meaning that they will need to close the gap quickly. Their firepower phases will be quite direct, picking out key parts of your army that present the greatest threat(s) (like Rune Priests and/or Power Fists, crippling your mobility, etc.) before they move in for the kill in close combat (where Grey Knights really shine).

 

While they are Space Marines, you cannot take many of the same approaches you would in combating any other type of Space Marine army out there, because the Grey Knights function quite differently. Does it make them any scarier to face? No (unless you're Daemons or Tyranids, who get VERY shafted against Grey Knights), but it does change the global meta and requires re-adapting to account for this new type of foe.

 

 

DV8

[Valerian]

Indeed! With some exceptions (Psyflemen Dreadnoughts, Vindicares, and Storm Ravens, to name a few), most of the Grey Knight firepower will be within that 24" range (even Psycannons are only 24"), meaning that they will need to close the gap quickly. Their firepower phases will be quite direct, picking out key parts of your army that present the greatest threat(s) (like Rune Priests and/or Power Fists, crippling your mobility, etc.) before they move in for the kill in close combat (where Grey Knights really shine).

 

While they are Space Marines, you cannot take many of the same approaches you would in combating any other type of Space Marine army out there, because the Grey Knights function quite differently. Does it make them any scarier to face? No (unless you're Daemons or Tyranids, who get VERY shafted against Grey Knights), but it does change the global meta and requires re-adapting to account for this new type of foe.

 

 

DV8

 

DV8 is right on. To be honest, the only way to figure out how to best beat the new army is to play against them and see what they are capable of. I'm really looking forward to this, as I'll be doing it from the opposite direction (ie "how would I try to beat an army like my Space Wolves with my Space Wolves).

 

Valerian

[Evilmerlin]

I've seen a trial GK list that was very shooty and can still potentially hold it's own in close combat. Basically it had 2 Rifleman Dreads with Psybolt, 2 Ven Dreads with Assault Cannons + Psybolt, 3 or 4 squads of PAGK with Psycannons with accompanying Assault Cannon + Psybolt Razorbacks. All that backed up a librarian + terminator squad with Psycannon.

 

That is a whole lot of STR7+ shots flying your way. Sure, max fire power around 24" but with that many high powered shots, somethings gonna die. It's not all that weak in CC either with the 2 Ven Dreads + the Terminator squad.

[CainTheHunter]

My reaction? I guess, I will never own a GK army ;) :)

[Lord Ragnarok]

That's the point DV8 was making, GK's are going to try to flush the Rune Priests out so they know where they are, at least. Their range only goes so far and it can be worked around. Beyond assassins and specific anti-psyker stuff, these are space marines still.

 

Indeed! With some exceptions (Psyflemen Dreadnoughts, Vindicares, and Storm Ravens, to name a few), most of the Grey Knight firepower will be within that 24" range (even Psycannons are only 24"), meaning that they will need to close the gap quickly. Their firepower phases will be quite direct, picking out key parts of your army that present the greatest threat(s) (like Rune Priests and/or Power Fists, crippling your mobility, etc.) before they move in for the kill in close combat (where Grey Knights really shine).

 

While they are Space Marines, you cannot take many of the same approaches you would in combating any other type of Space Marine army out there, because the Grey Knights function quite differently. Does it make them any scarier to face? No (unless you're Daemons or Tyranids, who get VERY shafted against Grey Knights), but it does change the global meta and requires re-adapting to account for this new type of foe.

 

 

DV8

 

 

One thing I don't seeing discussed are henchmen. There will be a ton of other builds when you take Coteaz and henchmen. Won't make them stronger or weaker, but "different". I know for my own purposes I'd love to find a strong balance between weak fodder, and "smack you in the face and demand seconds" elite TDA/PA.

[hmk17]

That's the point DV8 was making, GK's are going to try to flush the Rune Priests out so they know where they are, at least. Their range only goes so far and it can be worked around. Beyond assassins and specific anti-psyker stuff, these are space marines still.

 

Indeed! With some exceptions (Psyflemen Dreadnoughts, Vindicares, and Storm Ravens, to name a few), most of the Grey Knight firepower will be within that 24" range (even Psycannons are only 24"), meaning that they will need to close the gap quickly. Their firepower phases will be quite direct, picking out key parts of your army that present the greatest threat(s) (like Rune Priests and/or Power Fists, crippling your mobility, etc.) before they move in for the kill in close combat (where Grey Knights really shine).

 

While they are Space Marines, you cannot take many of the same approaches you would in combating any other type of Space Marine army out there, because the Grey Knights function quite differently. Does it make them any scarier to face? No (unless you're Daemons or Tyranids, who get VERY shafted against Grey Knights), but it does change the global meta and requires re-adapting to account for this new type of foe.

 

 

DV8

 

 

One thing I don't seeing discussed are henchmen. There will be a ton of other builds when you take Coteaz and henchmen. Won't make them stronger or weaker, but "different". I know for my own purposes I'd love to find a strong balance between weak fodder, and "smack you in the face and demand seconds" elite TDA/PA.

 

I've only seen 1 henchmen bat rep so far, the conclusion was bloodbath on both sides. They are strong yet fragile, so it makes for interesting ideas. I see Jokaero spam being the default idea until 3 months out.

[DV8]

One thing I don't seeing discussed are henchmen. There will be a ton of other builds when you take Coteaz and henchmen. Won't make them stronger or weaker, but "different". I know for my own purposes I'd love to find a strong balance between weak fodder, and "smack you in the face and demand seconds" elite TDA/PA.

 

A Coteaz-Henchman army will function quite similarly to a Guard army, as the only transport Henchmen can take are Chimeras. They will have no access to the kind of ordnance-blast armor that a regular Guard army can, but with Grey Knight elements mixed in, it will play much like an allied army of old (Henchmen to provide the firepower/objective holding, Grey Knights as combat and now ranged support).

 

Jokaero's are great, but honestly at present they feel like a gimmick. At 35 points a pop, and the only weapons being Heavy, they will have to remain stationary to fire. Coupled with low toughness and a lack of save, destroying their bunkers (Chimeras) will leave them exposed and quickly taken out. If anything, mixed Henchmen retinues will be the order of the day (having a majority of Daemonhosts, for example, makes the squad effectively Toughness 5, while wounds can be shunted to units like Acolytes or Crusaders who wear heavier armor).

 

If anything, I feel that a Crowe + Purifiers, coupled with Coteaz + Henchmen, would be one of the more effective builds available that mixes both the Inquisition and Malleus elements of the book. But that's just how I see it, having only read through the book and not played any games with/against it yet.

 

 

DV8

[Grimtooth]

I need a gif of a guy dressed up with a white sheet a a ghost breakdancing to put into every GK thread beczause seriously is a whole bunch of boogie boogie boogie the boogie man is coming.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

A Coteaz-Henchman army will function quite similarly to a Guard army, as the only transport Henchmen can take are Chimeras. They will have no access to the kind of ordnance-blast armor that a regular Guard army can, but with Grey Knight elements mixed in, it will play much like an allied army of old (Henchmen to provide the firepower/objective holding, Grey Knights as combat and now ranged support).

 

Jokaero's are great, but honestly at present they feel like a gimmick. At 35 points a pop, and the only weapons being Heavy, they will have to remain stationary to fire. Coupled with low toughness and a lack of save, destroying their bunkers (Chimeras) will leave them exposed and quickly taken out. If anything, mixed Henchmen retinues will be the order of the day (having a majority of Daemonhosts, for example, makes the squad effectively Toughness 5, while wounds can be shunted to units like Acolytes or Crusaders who wear heavier armor).

DV8

 

They do have heavy flamers for the 5 x heavy flamer drive bys. 5++ on a toughness three model is certainly nothing to write home about in saves though.

 

A big problem with Jokaero is that their roll-on table maxes at 6, and with +1 for each additional ape taking more than about two or three means you generally won't get any advantages.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

I need a gif of a guy dressed up with a white sheet a a ghost breakdancing to put into every GK thread beczause seriously is a whole bunch of boogie boogie boogie the boogie man is coming.

 

But literally, he is coming. With some Ghost Terminators to boot!

 

I ain't afraid of no ghost.

[hmk17]

A Coteaz-Henchman army will function quite similarly to a Guard army, as the only transport Henchmen can take are Chimeras. They will have no access to the kind of ordnance-blast armor that a regular Guard army can, but with Grey Knight elements mixed in, it will play much like an allied army of old (Henchmen to provide the firepower/objective holding, Grey Knights as combat and now ranged support).

 

Jokaero's are great, but honestly at present they feel like a gimmick. At 35 points a pop, and the only weapons being Heavy, they will have to remain stationary to fire. Coupled with low toughness and a lack of save, destroying their bunkers (Chimeras) will leave them exposed and quickly taken out. If anything, mixed Henchmen retinues will be the order of the day (having a majority of Daemonhosts, for example, makes the squad effectively Toughness 5, while wounds can be shunted to units like Acolytes or Crusaders who wear heavier armor).

DV8

 

They do have heavy flamers for the 5 x heavy flamer drive bys. 5++ on a toughness three model is certainly nothing to write home about in saves though.

 

A big problem with Jokaero is that their roll-on table maxes at 6, and with +1 for each additional ape taking more than about two or three means you generally won't get any advantages.

 

Honestly, the table is icing and decorative. With enough monkeys, you get to pick the 2 extras and move on. If you are taking any Jokaero, its for the digital weapon. 5 lascannons say a lot. 20+ lascannons say even more. It will be popular gimmick list because its an easy spam list with very devastating ranged weapons. Though Jokaero are push overs in CC, it is getting to the gun line.

 

Ironically, the balanced henchmen build is more solid and threatening.

[MaveriK]

I'm a little disappointed about the Jokaero. I didn't see any special rules about throwing his poop at his enemies.. but that's just me.

[Emperors Immortals]

I'm a little disappointed about the Jokaero. I didn't see any special rules about throwing his poop at his enemies.. but that's just me.

 

 

 

Its just you who throws his poop at his enemies?!?!?!?! (I thought i was the only one...)

 

Perhaps the table should be expanded a little, im writing to GW right now actually!

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

I'm a little disappointed about the Jokaero. I didn't see any special rules about throwing his poop at his enemies.. but that's just me.

 

No, that's me too.