grimz Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 This thread is trying to consolidate tactics regarding the Dreadknight, and keep away from the aesthetic discussion everyone is having. One new thing I haven't seen too much discussion on this that the Dreadknight is now competing against Psyfle-Men Dreads (Riflemen Dreads with Psybolt Ammo) in the heavy support slot. Riflemen dreads are already a favourite of mine, and being able to give them +1STR, Reinforced Aegis, and Fortitude(maybe? Can't remember) seems like some solid competition. I saw it today size wise, it's about what I expected you should be able to hide it behind a land raider for 4+ cover, I was hoping that the DK Force Sword might grant +1 Invunerable Save, but it doesn't either it's a separate entry to normal Nemesis Force Swords. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordsloth Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 This thread is trying to consolidate tactics regarding the Dreadknight, and keep away from the aesthetic discussion everyone is having. One new thing I haven't seen too much discussion on this that the Dreadknight is now competing against Psyfle-Men Dreads (Riflemen Dreads with Psybolt Ammo) in the heavy support slot. Riflemen dreads are already a favourite of mine, and being able to give them +1STR, Reinforced Aegis, and Fortitude(maybe? Can't remember) seems like some solid competition. I saw it today size wise, it's about what I expected you should be able to hide it behind a land raider for 4+ cover, I was hoping that the DK Force Sword might grant +1 Invunerable Save, but it doesn't either it's a separate entry to normal Nemesis Force Swords. personally i think its going to loose against the rifledread. the heavy versions of the psycannon and psilencer leave me unconvinced and to make it a fast enough melee unit you need to make it very expensive. which is why i think the rifledread will win. dreadknight need serious points investment to make it work in either melee or ranged capacity while the rifledread is cheap effective goodness. though if i had to run one i'd probably go heavy incinerator and try to do some infantry damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2686142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inache Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I see it as either taking two standard DK's for holding rear objectives by hooking them up with Grand Strategy or using one kitted out one to deep strike and wreck face in the opponents backfield to prepare for your assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2686150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyking Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Deepstriking it in would also be a viable approach, given all the DS aids GK seem to get. And before someone says that the NDK doesn't have DS as a special rule, the little gear entry on Nemesis Dreadknight Armor says that a unit wearing it can be teleported in, like a terminator. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2686232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glendor Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 DOes the Dread Knight have an invul? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2686234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 It has a 5+ invulnerable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2686240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimz Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 Maybe someone can confirm but I thought DK's always started in reserves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2686255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMoon Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 i dont know with a 2+4+ i think it can survive a bit. and if you give it the telaporter option and run somebody who can give you scout thats a first turn charge with them....pretty gross really Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2686272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimz Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 FYI It's S6/T6 2+/5+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2686283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMoon Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 oh know :woot: ...it can still charge the first turn AND at least has an invul save unlike darn near every other large model.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2686287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 alternatively at t6 and 2+/4+ its great fly paper and if there shooting at the big scarey model there not shooting your assult elements moveing into position especialy with 4 wounds my last 2 games i ran a long fang pack 1 lc 3 ml on average against regular troops i did 2 wounds a round and they were not getting saves this effect will filter through Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2686293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Really, this thing seems to be built more for Horde armies with some optional MC hunting. Regardless, it does still say shoot me... with the heavy weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2686656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMoon Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 so if there shooting at it there not shooting at my rhinos or land raiders im ok with that. it has an inv save it can shrug off a few shots and if it gets first turn charge who cares. lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2686749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrunner Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Well, according to the leaked dex pdf, it is a S7/T7 MC with a 2+/4+ statline and 4 wounds. Now, assuming that the leak is correct, a dreadknight with a single heavy psycannon and teleporter is 245pts... Even without a gun, we are still talking about 205pts. But, this is something that you can throw in your opponent's face from the get-go. So, if you need to distract from your stormravens filled with terminators... they are a good bet. I can also see a lot of use for them run without upgrades, the idea being that your opponent will have to invest some serious firepower in them to take them down - and that, whilst this is happening, your army of terminators will take a lot less heavy fire. My initial thoughts for a list to take advantage of these bad boys might be... 1500pts All Comers List: Master Mordrak - 200 5 Ghost Knights - All with halberds, bar two with D.Hammers - 160 10-man GK Strike Squad - All have personal teleporters, force swords and storm bolters with psybolt ammunition, and two have psycannons - 300 10 GK Terminators - All are armed with halberds, bar two with a D.Hammer and two with a psycannon - 450 Nemesis Dreadknight - 130 Nemesis Dreadknight - 130 Nemesis Dreadknight - 130 The Dreadknights are hard to ignore; with the Master's "Grand Strategy", you get to nominate a special rule for D3 units - you might want to scout those three guys up so that they are in the thick of it from the off! Or give them scoring ability, or give everyone counter attack that you can... its up to you. I don't know if this list would be viable, but if you stick the DK's in front, the Ghost Knights behind to cover the rest of the army and benefit from a 3+ cover save themselves, everyone should have a 4+ cover save to start with. You have four psycannons, and the Strike squad can always appear out of nowhere to be a royal pain in the ass early on. Its one way to run them - I hereby christen this The Charge of the Dreadknights!!! NR <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2687061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inache Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 They're S6/T6 and 2+/5++ now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2687078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 With regards to the NDK vs Dreadnought debate, they're kinda apples and oranges. Dreadnought: - Advantages: Can be carried by Stormraven, can be equipped to be more powerful in the Shooting phase, grants a powerful anti-psyker buff to nearby squads, can generate a field that nullifies 'Perils' attacks, has a wide assortment of heavy weapon options - Disadvantages: One hit can destroy it ('Fortitude' will let you shrug off lesser damage for the most part), can be bogged down in combat more easily (because it has fewer attacks in combat, and on pure shooty/after the enemy rip off the DCCW, you'll get stalemated at best) NDK: - Advantages: Can Deepstrike, can be upgraded to jump infantry (and have that ninja ability thrown in), has more powerful armour-disabling/anti-infantry shooting options, has better close-combat ability (and can be upgraded to have powerful close-combat ability), can weather more heavy weapons fire - Disadvantages: Can be torrented with poison/medium strength weapons (although that 2+ save will be hard to break), is very susceptible to AP2 shots (which generally has the high Strength to counteract the T6 as well), can be ninja'd by anything with I5 or higher (assuming no Librarian nearby to buff you with 'Quickening'), ID weapons can kill it with one go So, it's not so much a question of taking one in exclusion of the other, it's what you want them to do, then taking the right build. Dreadnoughts are excellent generalists, and they bring cheap anti-tank (in the form of twin-lascannon and multi-melta) in a more easily hidden package (not to mention Stormraven taxi). Dreadknights make enemy infantry and light armour cry with their Shooting, and in close-combat they will really bring the pain to heavy infantry and MC's (although as I said, a Librarian buffing him with 'Quickening' is essential). I'm planning on taking both. Ranged Dreadnought with twin-lascannon+twin-autocannon and psybolts, to camp back with the Rhino-bourne Strike squads, while the Dreadknight with heavy incinerator lands off a Stormraven teleport homer and wrecks face with my Grandmaster and Librarian up in the enemy's face (accompanied by Paladin bodyguards). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2687266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 can generate a field that nullifies 'Perils' attacks Seriosuly? What wargear option is this? It was something I was really hoping for, but there were no umours of anything like this! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2687336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 'Warp stabilisation field'. Last time I heard about it, it negated perils in a 6" aura. Most vehicles have the option of purchasing it. It's pretty cheap too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2687361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Warp Stabilisation Fields allow a Libarian to use his Summoning power on a Land Raider or Dreadnought. You can summon a Dreadknight already. There is no such 'immune to perils' field option for the NDK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2687376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Oh :huh: I was getting excited about that wargear. Ah well, guess it's pointless because I don't need 'Summoning' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2687392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrunner Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 They're S6/T6 and 2+/5++ now. Sad faces all round :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2687449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I really need to see how scary they are with the jump pack. Cos 230pts base for one with sword and jump pack with no ranged weapons is extortionate. But if they are wiping out double that in a game its a worthy investment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2687571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosPhoenix Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 The 30" Jump with teleporter can really ruin someones day with a last minute grab. On the other hand, it makes the NDK go >200 pts. Teleport PAGKs are cheaper, can do the same trick - and they don't compete with Dreads or Land Raiders. It's close combat weapons are another thing. At first, a question: Does it get an extra attack for 2 Doomfists? If yes, there are few reasons to take other weapons. He's strength 10, so a reroll to wound is a marginal gain for 25 pts (sword). Even if the reroll to hit is still good, you don't need it, if you get an extra attack for free. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2687678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Yes, you do get an extra attack for 2 fists. Statistically re-roll to wound and re-roll to hit with 3 attacks at S6 is better than 4 attacks base at S10 when attacking infantry models. And with multiwound models with Ld10 you are going to be instakilling them with the Force Weapon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224557-tactica-dreadknight/#findComment-2687691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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