Sanguinary Crusaders (Edited)

[Arkangilos]

Sanguinary Crusaders

Name: Sanguinary Crusaders
Founded: 18th
Homeworld: Damoria IV
Geneseed: Sanguinius

Origins

The Sanguinary Crusaders chapter was created in the early 35th Millinium. As with all chapters, their mission is to protect the Imperium of Man. After the onset of the Black Rage to the chapter, the Sanguinary Crusaders swore that they would always have one full company dedicated to searching for the cure.
The chapters fleet was small, and had only a few strike cruisers due to some logistical errors in the creation of the chapter, though the same errors had blessed them with an unusual amount of heavy weaponry and flamers. However, with the lack of a fleet and manufacturing ships, they could not perminantly sustain themselves.
All of that changed after the battle for Imvida II.

Imvida II

Imvida II was a highly prized Mechanicus Forgeworld, that had come under a major attack by a chaos warband from the Black Legion. The Black Legion, planning this for decades, had the help of a Word Bearer Dark Apostle, and an Alpha Legion agent. With chaos infiltrators, they had corrupted a portion of the Mechanicus garrison, who had reprogrammed the Skitarii legions under their command. About a month before the attack, the Word Bearers sent troops to attack Imvida III on the outer part of the system. The Mechinicus, who believed this to be the forward operations of a larger attack, sent one of the three titan legions to reinforce the world, and the infiltrators convinced them to send two of the seven Skitarii legions as well.
When the troops had left, the Black Legion sprang their trap. The traitor Mechanicus agents turned the planetary defenses onto the mechanicus fleet above, before disabling them, and three of the remaining 5 Skitarii legions turned on the unaware loyalists, destroying all but one titan, which was disabled, and inflicting high casualties onto the loyalist Skitarii.
Meanwhile, the transport ships were destroyed before the Titan on the outer world could retrieve the titans and return them, leaving the only surviving titans and Skitarii stranded on the other side of the system.
With the dire situation, Aldin Mechiron sent out a general distress call, which was immediately answered by Tibernius. Tibernius immediately dispatched the whole of the chapter to the planet.
Knowing that his fleet would not be strong enough to defeat the newly chaos fleet or hold out against the captured orbital defense cannons, he only sent them long enough to drop off the marines, and told them to leave the system until further orders were sent.
After making planet fall, the Sanguinary Crusaders began fortifying only the most important forge, Forge 7-19. Tibernius formed several lines of defenses; When the enemy attack finally came, it was met with extreme resistance, and time and time again the warband was beat off.
For several days this continued, until finally the Chaos Warlord Ghast Jrail challenged Tibernius to a duel. When Ghast Jrail stepped forward to shout the challenge, Tibernius blew his head off with a sniper rifle borrowed from a scout. It is said that he uttered these words as he took the shot, "Thank the Emperor he chose not to wear a helmet."
The battle was not over, but it did send the Chaos into dissarray while they fought for their next leader. During this time, the Sanguinary Crusaders, made strategic attacks to the Orbital Defense Cannons, and turning their guns on the chaos fleet. With the chaos fleet heavily damaged, the Sanguinary Crusader fleet returned and forced the chaos fleet to withdraw, giving the crusaders Air and Space supiority.
The battle would continue to rage on, however, for three more months, until twelve regiments of Imperial Guard, along with the forces retrieved from Invida III.

The Reward

Because the Sanguinary Crusaders were instrumental to the holding of Invida II, the Mechanicus awarded them with a recovered, but unowned, battlebarge, known as the Leviticus, as well as a manufacturing ship.

Home World

The Sanguinary Crusaders had no home world until the Draco Crusade brought them to the defense of Damoria II in 236 M40. When the Unholy Guard and Unholy Chosen space marines had taken most of the system, the Sanguinary Crusaders sent 2nd and 4th companies to aid the Damorian PDF and Imperial Guard regiments until the rest of the chapter would arrive.
For 6 months the defenders held, but lost ground, until bolts of energy from the sky, followed by a massive air assault of the rest of the chapter sent the chaos forces into dissarray. It was only a matter of days until the chaos forces were crushed in the Damoria system.
During the mop-up operations on Damoria IV, the chapter master, Veritus, came across a broken Shrine of the Emperor, standing with Sanguinius with an inscription that read, "Welcome, Crusaders of Blood, this will be our future." Veritus saw it as a sign from the Father and Sanguinius, and in the 237 M40, began construction of the Fortress of Angels, their fortress monestary.
The planet would also prove to be a perfect training ground. The wasted area around the Fortress, The Desert of Fire, matched the deserts of Baal. On the second continent, there were the Death Jungles and Toxic Swamps. To the south of the Fortress lie the Ruined City, and to the far north lie the Arctic Wastes. All of these provided harsh training in differant environements.
The Damorians swore to their defenders that they would provide them with any support, and from the Damorians came the majority of the new recruits. The Damorians also formed auxiliary units for the Sanguinary Crusaders.

Before the Chaos incursion, it had a population of over 3,000,000,000, but the war left it a deathworld with virtually no survivors. As a result, it yields no recruits, forcing the Sanguinary Crusaders to recruit from Demoria II, the urban world of 2.5 billion survivors, who owe their survival to the Sanguinary Crusaders.

Battle Doctrine

The Sanguinary Crusaders, having started with more heavy weapons and flame throwers than normal, are well trained in cleansing precision. Their favoured weapon is the flamer, and almost every assault and tactical squad has one.
They also have a great amount of skill with heavy weapons, and so have more ready to fill the roles of devastaors. The only problem, is of course, the red thirst.
Like the Blood Angels and their successors, the Black Rage will take hold of brothers before the fight. The Sanguinary Crusaders handle it the same, creating a Death Company.

The assaults of the Crusaders comes in differant stages, and each captain has his favored tactics. However, it usually starts with scouts weeks before the attack, while the rest of the company is in transit, and when the attack hits, death company, followed by assault troops and dreadnaughts, followed by tactical, and then last by devastators.

Orginazation

The Sanguinary Crusaders do not strictly follow the codex, in terms of orginazation, but they do try to keep the number of Space Marines to about a thousand as laid out. However, they have 8 full battle companies (which also try to keep to the codex).
One company is always searching for the cure for the crusade, 7 are always going on campaign, and 1 is kept in reserve(despite being called battle companies. The companies in reserve are selected each time a crusade is chosen) to garrison and send out as the situation demands.
The veteran first company makes up the lowest of the Archangels, and is known as the Company of Eternal Archangels. They are never fielded as a unit in its entirety, and are broken up amongst the companies as their campaign demands, as in other chapters. The scouts are also not a single unit, like in other chapters. They make up the pool of recruits, which takes the place of the 10th company. As often as possible, the Sanguinary Crusaders attempt to keep the ratio of recruits to marines 1 to 1, but this is not often possible, and so when the recruits are low in number, they will send the scouts out amongst the companies as the campaigns demand. However, they will never put more than 100 scouts in one company.
Like the Blood Angels, the Devastators are recognised with blue helmets (and blue hands for the Sanguinary Crusaders). The Assault Marines are recognised with yellow helmets and yellow hands, and the Veterans are recognised with black helmets and black hands. The reason for the black rather than yellow or gold is because the yellow make up the assault, and the gold makes up the Honor Guard.

The High Chaplain and Sanguinary High Priest are held in the same respect as the Chapter Master, and as such hold his authority when he is not present. The Chief Librarian is a figure of awe, and is the Chapter Masters most trusted advisor. Unlike many chapters, Librarians are not feared, nor are they shunned, but instead respected.
The command structure of the Sanguinary Crusaders is known as the Circle of Archangels, and to be considered an Archangel is the highest honor.

The second in command of the chapter is the Chapter Champion. He is a figure of inspiration, and has honed the skills of war and strategy. He also holds the title Master of the Eternal Archangels, and is the equivelent to a first company captain in this regard.
There are three layers:
The Inner Circle consists of the Chapter Master, Chapter Champion, Sanguinary High Priest, the Artificer Maximus, the High Chaplain, the Chief Librarian, and the Master of the Sanguinary Guard.
The Middle Circle consists of the Company Captains, the senior Librarians, the Sanguinary Guard, the Sanguinary Priests, the Chaplains, the Master of Recruits, the Master of the Fleet, and the Tech Marines.
The Outer Circle, known as the Eternal Archangels are the Veterans and Dreadnaughts.

Beliefs

The Sanguinary Crusaders, like many space marine chapters, believe that the Emperor is the father of humanity, but do not necessarily worship him as a god.
Once every decade, if possible, the Sanguinary Crusaders try to meet as the whole of a chapter. During these times they celebrate Sanguinius' and the Emperor's sacrifice, as well as their victories and break throughs. It is during this time that the company chosen to search for the cure gives all of their findings to the Sanguinary Priesthood. They also have competitions of art and war, and further their training.
After the celebrations, the Chapter Master and the middle and inner circle of Archangels select a new company to begin the search for the cure, or reelect the old one to continue their search. They also choose who will go on what crusade, and what resources they will begin with.

The Sanguinary Crusaders also believe that, because they are not the Blood Angels, nor are they the second founding, that they are not worthy enough to wear the fully gold armor. As such, their Sanguinary Guards' armor will only have gold death masks.
The Death Company is honored highly by the Sanguinary Crusaders, but feared beyond everything else. Honored for reliving Sanguinius' Sacrifice, feared for the curse of failure that it holds for them.

Ties of Brotherhood

The Sanguinary Crusaders have many close allies, but none so close as the Frost Wolves, a "rumored" successor of the Space Wolves.
The brotherhood between the two chapters came during the Gvendr Crusade when the 9th company, under command of Captain Vayne, fought alongside the Frost Wolves 4th Great Company. For nearly a decade, the forces had barely acknowlaged eachother, until the battle of Skaryll IV.

Skaryll IV

The world of Skaryll IV was once a mining world of the Imperium that had been taken by the forces of chaos in 478 M39. When the crusading forces arrived to the world, 10 years later, they had found that it had been heavily fortified by the forces of Chaos. The inquisitor Vehanius Lex ordered the Imperial Guard down first, without the aid of the Space Marines. Upon learning this, Captain Vayne became furious and ordered the immediate assault upon the chaos headquarters, knowing that without their aid the Imperial Guard would be slaughtered.
By the time the Imperial Guard had been dropped and attacking the outer defenses, the Sanguinary Crusaders had just made orbit. The whole of the 9th company, with the attatched scouts made planet fall and struck at the middle of the chaos forces. The battle was fierce, and many battle brothers did not make it to the planet.
The inquisitor was not pleased with the way the assault was turning out, and so he withdrew the battered, nearly completely destroyed Imperial Guard regiments from the region, leaving the Sanguinary Crusaders to fend for themselves.
This did not please the Frost Wolves, who believed that the actions taken were dishonorable, and were ashamed that the forces were leaving the Sanguinary Crusaders to their fate. Filled with shame and rage, they vowed that the Sanguinary Crusaders would not lose the day, and began their own assault. The two chapters, fighting side by side, fought their way to the Chaos Cathedral, built over the primary power driver, where the chaos commanders planned their battle stages. Fighting through the hordes of chaos, they found an access hatch into the driver's core and planted every explosive they had left. The resulting explosion destroyed the foundation of the Chaos Cathedral, as well as rendered the automated defenses along the outer perimeter inoperable. The surviving Sanguinary Crusaders and Frost Wolves fought their way back up to the destroyed Dark Cathedral.
Lieing in the ruins was the still alive Chaos Lord Alvidon the Blood Sucker. Captain Vayne wasted no time and removed his head before he could remove the rubble on top of him. He was suprised, when the deed was done, at what Alvidon carried. It was not a demon weapon, or even a weapon of chaos. It was instead the Lost Blade of Kysindar, the blade they had hoped to find on this crusade, but had been led to believe it was not on the this world by the inquisitor.

When the battle was over, and the dust settled, Vayne approached the Frost Wolves Commander, Wolf Lord Skynfil. Captain Vayne saluted him, and proclaimed their gratitude and debt to them. He then knelt and offered his power sword to Skynfil. Skynfil accepted the blade, raised it high, and announced that from that day forward, the two chapters would be blood brothers and allies.

Since that day, the two chapters have continuesly aided eachother, and each time, the company captains award each other with a gift. Upon the death of those who hold the gift, the gift is returned to its parent chapter.

The most current gift to the Sanguinary Crusaders, the Hammer of the Wolf, is held by Captain Aldarius, who had it awarded to him by the Frost Wolf Great Lord Kievn Russ.

Current Forces

Chapter Master: Telanicus
Chapter Champion: Urikus
Sanguiniary High Priest: Platorius
High Chaplain: Benedictus
Chief Librarian: Acrostices
Artificer Maximus: Voltarus
Master of the Sanguinary Guard: Raphiel
Fleet Master: Raphern
Master of Recruits: Philoctetes

Fleet: Battlebarge Leviticus, Battlebarge Wrath of Tibernius, Battlebarge Hope of the Imperium, Battlebarge Wrath of Blood
10 strike cruisers

First Battle Company:
Captain- Michael
Campaign- Draco Crusade

Second Battle Company:
Captain- Aldarius
Campaign- Draco Crusade

Third Battle Company
Captain- Teldarius
Campaign- Searching for the Grail of Socratise

Fourth Battle Company
Captain- Ferran
Campaign- Searching for the Cure

Fifth Battle Company
Captain- Untrez
Campaign- Starn Crusade

Sixth Battle Company
Captain- Tarro
Campaign- Suthra Crusade

Seventh Battle Company
Captain- Euris
Campaign- Demorian Garrison

Eighth Battle Company
Captain- Duran
Campaign- Svendar Campaign

[NightrawenII]

Hello and welcome in the Liber.

If you don't know, we have two usefull guides for DIYers, the Guide to DIYing and Octaguide 2.0. Now...

 

Unlike many chapters, the Sanguinary Crusaders chapter originally created directly from the Blood Angels and their successors as a combined effort to retrieve a holy relic.

- Sorry, but no. Only High Lords of Terra may sanctify a creation of the new Chapter.

- Recovery of the relic is not reason for creation of Chapter. Crusade is possibility, but Crusade =/= Chapter.

 

After the chapter left the orbit of Baal, it was immediately on its own. In those times, the fleet was small, and had no real production facilities, so it often got bogged down with missions unrelated to its own as to receive supplies as payments from over joyed commanders.

- The Crusade is ad-hoc formation of several companies with support. In no way is the Crusade self-sufficient and independent force. The individual companies are still subjects of their respective Chapters.

 

Imvida II was a highly prized Mechanicus Forgeworld, that had come under the attack of a chaos warband from the Black Legion. The Black Legion quickly overcame the orbital defenses, and half of the PDF turned to chaos in hopes of survival.

- Unlikely. The Forgeworld is home of regiments of Skitarii and legion(s) of Titans. This is formidable and nigh undefeatable foe for any, but few forces in the galaxy.

 

By this time, there was no need, as most of the battle brothers were recruited during the 1000 year crusade, and much of the fleet, which now had two battlebarges, were aquired and built during the crusade.

- Thousand years? That's far too long for single crusade.

- Space Marines recruit only from their designated homeworlds. Why would the Crusade break this tradition?

- Btw, Did the Marines know the location of the Relic at beginning or they just wandered aimlessly around??

 

Seeing the need for more than one hundred scouts, Tibernius created a whole scout section consisting of 1500. One thousand of these scouts were broken into Scout Companies of 100. The Scout Companies were then attatched to a Battle Company, making one scout for every marine. The remaining 500 are constantly training to be ready to replace losses when the company returns.

- :confused:

 

Another deviance is that all ten companies are battle companies, and each captain's tactics are reflected by how his troops are arranged.

- The Blood Angels and most likely all of their Successors embrace the Codex Astartes... How come you are different?

 

Few words at the end:

Crusade doesn't work like the Chapter, therefore method of the creation of your Chapter presented in this article is unlikely. You want crusading Chapter, fine. But there is a lot of better ways, how to do it than this. This breaks my "Suspension of Disbelief" from the start.

Second, give them 'united' combat doctrine. The Chapter is subject of the same philosophy and traditions. Their approach to warfare will be not that different and saying "each captain's tactics are reflected by how his troops are arranged" smacks of lazy writting.

The 'Belief' section is about ideology, creed and traditions of your Chapter. We don't care about similarities, what we want to know are differences.

The Culture and people of the Homeworld are the source of the most traditions and personality of the Chapter. Tell us about them.

The Gene-seed of the Sons of Sanguinius is cursed by the Red Thirst and Black Rage, you are no different. How do your Chapter adress this issue?

 

The most important thing to keep in mind; You are just another successor of Blood Angels, what sets you apart from the crowd?

[Arkangilos]

Actually, I never said it was not approved by the high lords of Terra, I just said it was not created by a brand new batch of marines.

Also, if a crusade for a relic can not last a thousand years, why haven't the Salamanders found all 9 of their lost relics? They have had 8000 years to find it.

 

The forge world was believed to be in a relatively safe area, and as I said, half of their defense forces turned to chaos. Planetary Defense Forces include all the defenses on the planet, Titans, Imperial Guard, etc. And before you say it would be unlikely for a few space marines to turn the tide of such a large assault, read Dark Apostle, when a squad of Terminators of the word bearers destroyed an Imperator class titan surrounded by a whole regiment of imperial guardsmen. Yes, they are chaos, but it doesn't make that much of a differance.

 

1,000 scouts assigned to 10 companies and 500 was a move so that the Sanguinary Crusaders could replenish their losses quickly, so that their wars and campaigns could be fought continuously. An example of why it should be this way comes in the Blood Angel Novels when the BA had lost so many numbers they had to ask other chapters to accomidate them. If they had more scouts, that situation could be avoided.

 

10 battle companies because each one has its own campaign area, and each company is arranged differantly because the campaigns are wildly differant, and if a company needs to destroy a city more often, they are going to have more devastators than usual. If they are going to do strategic raids, they will have faster units.

The commanders have their specialties, and they are deployed as such.

 

The chapter does not really have differant beliefs.

 

Not all chapters have specified recruiting worlds. For example, the Black Templars recruit from where ever they want.

 

Also, no they did not really know where the relic was, only a small clue, which is why it took so long. That is also why the chapter itself was created for it, because it could focus only on that, and the other chapters could replace their losses and focus on other things.

 

I have more later, but I ran out of time. Also, thank you for the feedback, I will go back and edit some things, but for the most part I am not changing anything. Another reason the artical seems incomplete, is because I ran out of time when I was writing it. Thanks again.

[NightrawenII]

Also, if a crusade for a relic can not last a thousand years, why haven't the Salamanders found all 9 of their lost relics? They have had 8000 years to find it.

Because the Salamanders have better things to do, like fighting for the Imperium for example and because they don't know where these relics were/are.

Second, Why Salamanders have not sent crusade to find these relics, but the BA&Co did? Why using chainsaw, when the scalpel is enough...?

 

The forge world was believed to be in a relatively safe area, and as I said, half of their defense forces turned to chaos. Planetary Defense Forces include all the defenses on the planet, Titans, Imperial Guard, etc. And before you say it would be unlikely for a few space marines to turn the tide of such a large assault, read Dark Apostle, when a squad of Terminators of the word bearers destroyed an Imperator class titan surrounded by a whole regiment of imperial guardsmen. Yes, they are chaos, but it doesn't make that much of a differance.

Legion =/= single Titan.

Skitarii are quite different than the average joe Imperial Guardsman. They are dead 'ard and fanatically loyal to their masters.

Seriously, the Forge Worlds are, apart from Fortress Worlds, the best guarded planets in the Imperium. It requires quite large balls to attack one.

 

1,000 scouts assigned to 10 companies and 500 was a move so that the Sanguinary Crusaders could replenish their losses quickly, so that their wars and campaigns could be fought continuously. An example of why it should be this way comes in the Blood Angel Novels when the BA had lost so many numbers they had to ask other chapters to accomidate them. If they had more scouts, that situation could be avoided.

Strange, not a single Chapter, out of thousand no less, thinks the way you do... ;)

 

10 battle companies because each one has its own campaign area, and each company is arranged differantly because the campaigns are wildly differant, and if a company needs to destroy a city more often, they are going to have more devastators than usual. If they are going to do strategic raids, they will have faster units.

The commanders have their specialties, and they are deployed as such.

Let me ask you question; Is this Chapter a single entity, united in their purpose and reason, or the assembly of several companies without any connection to each other?

The Combat Doctrine is extension of Chapter creed and ideology. This is where the true personality of the Chapter manifests itself.

Look at Iron Hands, White Scars and Space Wolves, all of them have mostly independent companies, but the doctrines and procedures of each are largely similar if not the same.

 

The chapter does not really have differant beliefs.

So, you are saying there is nothing, which defines them as the Sanguinary Crusaders? No definition = no meaning. :P

 

Also, no they did not really know where the relic was, only a small clue, which is why it took so long. That is also why the chapter itself was created for it, because it could focus only on that, and the other chapters could replace their losses and focus on other things.

Sooo, you have entire Chapter of genetically-engineered super-warriors created for the sole purpose of finding a single relic? I'm sorry, but this is quite funny image... :huh:

[Arkangilos]

Ok, well it is not letting me edit properly, so I'll just somewhat do it on this.

 

How many scouts/recruits do the black templars have?

 

The Space Wolves have more than a hundred recruits as well, as each company recruits its own, and the bulk of their forces are their recruits.

 

The founding date is actually in M36, which means it was during the Age of Apostasy, so the Administration has gone to Hell, thus allowing for this creation.

 

The Chapter was created to constantly search for relics, and to prevent Chaos and Xenos from finding them, and corrupting them.

 

The battle over the forgeworld happened, half of the Titan legion turned against the other half, half of the mechanicus turned against the other half, so the Skitarii also switched, Half with one side, Half with the other. The chaos warband is really the Alpha Legion, who are famous for these kind of attacks and turning half against the other half, and the attacks were so well thought out, that it crippled the defenses anyways. All of that changed when the Chaos Warlord had his head blown off... The chaos fought amongst themselves for their next leader, but the war continued for another few months, until 12 full regiments, 5 titan legions, and two other chapters arrived. Finally chaos was defeated, and the millions of chaos worshippers, a long with the disloyal Mechanicus were killed. In return for their help, the ruler of the world gave the Sanguinary Crusaders a small forge-ship, and a battlebarge that had been recovered centuries ago, but had no owner, as the chapter who owned it had all perished.

 

The Sanguinary Crusaders battlecompanies, unlike the whole of the chapter, do follow codex orginazation in terms devastators, assault, and tactical squads.

However, the commander does not always recognise that they can only field 2 assault squads, 2 devastator squads, and 6 tactical squads. If the situation calls for 10 devastators, he will field that many.

 

 

The chapter only "officially" has 100 scouts, the rest are just "Auxilary Imperial Guardsmen, and loyal servants who have undergone some modifications to serve differant battlefield roles that we can not." But in all honesty, they are all recruits.

Before the comment, "Space marines can not have auxilary forces," comes up, just remember, the entirety Ultramar is sworn to the Ultramarines. They pay their tithes to them, they make the equipment for them, they send Imperial Guard regiments to them. Calgar himself rules that whole sector.

 

Yes, my chapter may have a few more guys than the codex allows, but the Black Templars have thousands more. They are actually estimated to be in the 10,000 range. The Space Wolves are the same way, having 12 companies, and each of those have more than 100 men. Heck, their recruits are full blown space marines in the beginning.

[Ace Debonair]

Before I begin:

Please don't take any of my following comments as attacks of any form, what I'm typing is with the sole intent of helping you improve this IA in the making.

 

I'll also quickly add that Nightrawen is definitely a guy worth listening to, since he's generally right (albeit somewhat unforgiving) with his C+C. :P

 

Ok, well it is not letting me edit properly, so I'll just somewhat do it on this.

 

How many scouts/recruits do the black templars have?

 

The Space Wolves have more than a hundred recruits as well, as each company recruits its own, and the bulk of their forces are their recruits.

 

They're also first founding Chapters (ok, templars are second, but they fall in the same general bracket) with all the political clout, influence and history thereof. Unlike your (and our) chapter(s), which couldn't get away with so flagrantly ignoring the codex restrictions on size without serious repercussions as soon as those discrepancies came to light.

 

And as such, they're a terrible example to try and copy for a DIY chapter.*

 

The chapter only "officially" has 100 scouts, the rest are just "Auxilary Imperial Guardsmen, and loyal servants who have undergone some modifications to serve differant battlefield roles that we can not." But in all honesty, they are all recruits.

Before the comment, "Space marines can not have auxilary forces," comes up, just remember, the entirety Ultramar is sworn to the Ultramarines. They pay their tithes to them, they make the equipment for them, they send Imperial Guard regiments to them. Calgar himself rules that whole sector.

 

Yes, my chapter may have a few more guys than the codex allows, but the Black Templars have thousands more. They are actually estimated to be in the 10,000 range. The Space Wolves are the same way, having 12 companies, and each of those have more than 100 men. Heck, their recruits are full blown space marines in the beginning.

 

And here's why they're a terrible idea to copy.*

 

Interesting IA's are about the character and personality of a chapter. Sure, there's a bit about how they conduct themselves in a fight, and a bit about how they organize themselves, but it's all an extension of the Chapter's personality.

 

Having a thousand bonus scouts not only breaks the codex guidelines into iddy-biddy chunks (along with supsension of disbelief: where did you even find a thousand spare recruits?) but it adds nothing to the personality of the chapter, and as such isn't really interesting.

 

The Beliefs section is the heart and soul of the Chapter's character - what gets them out of the bed to go fight horrific enemies every day? Why do they feel the need to even think about taking a huge risk like trying to conceal a chapter and a half's worth of additional scouts, the discovery of which may well see the chapter excommunicated? Also, how do they feel about this relic quest that they're on?

 

Also, since you're using BA geneseed, you have the opportunity to tell us something about your death company and how your chapter deals with the curse of the BA geneseed.

 

 

 

* That is to say, copy as far as having thousands of marines goes. Vikings and Templars in space are alright themes where I'm concerned. ;)

 

 

EDIT:

I hate my typos. If I was more paranoid I'd say they were out to get me.

[Arkangilos]

Ok. Well again, I am trying to edit it, but it is not allowing me to edit it properly.

 

I will cut down on the scouts, and I tried adding to the beliefs (one reason the belief section is small is because, as I had said earlier, I ran out of time).

However, something about the scouts, if a chapter only ever had 100 scouts, how did they replace their losses in enough time to continue to do campaigns? I don't know about how many you lose in a game of 40k, but in many of the stories, and in many of the games (table top, not video), casualties are usually pretty high. With only 100 scouts, my chapter, which usually sends all but 1 or 2 companies out at a time (as they are looking for relics, and searching for a cure to the black rage, as well as protecting the Imperium), that is 10 scouts per company, which means that for years, only 10 of my marines can be replaced. The idea behind so many scouts, which I will add in when I can figure out how to edit it, is that each company can replace its numbers more efficiently, cutting back on the amount of times it will need to return.

Another reason behind so many scouts is in fact, the Black Rage. With the numbers of the marines succumbing to it increasing (as stated in the BA codex), and the constant crusades to find relics and the cure, the amount of fall back troops needs to be higher. Also, more scouts means more scouting, which means more chances of victory through intel.

 

I also seriously doubt that there are only 100 scouts in even the most codex strict chapters. I have every rule book since the beginning (with the exception of 2 or 3 codexes, but I have friends that have those), as well as most of the 40k novels, and I know that with the battles fought, 100 scouts would not be enough to replace their losses. The codex says that there will be a scout company of 100 scouts. Well, there is a company of 100 scouts at any one time, but there is nothing saying that there are not scouts divided up amongst the companies, that aren't worth mentioning. It is also said that there can not be any more than 1000 battle-brothers, but it can be said that scouts have not earned the honor of being a battle brother.

 

Those are just a few thoughts. And again, I say thank you for the feed back, and I am trying to change some, but for the most part, it will remain largely the same.

[Ecritter]

Work from a Word Document and replace the first post each time you edit, that will fix any problems you're having.

[NightrawenII]

How many scouts/recruits do the black templars have?

Straight from the Codex: Black Templars:

Fighting Company Heinman: 145 Initiates, 34 Neophytes

Fighting Company Lazarus: 171 Initiates, 56 Neophytes

Fighting Company Heinman: 87 Initiates, 41 Neophytes

 

So the ratio is ~ 1 Neophyte : 3 Initiates.

 

The Space Wolves have more than a hundred recruits as well, as each company recruits its own, and the bulk of their forces are their recruits.

Do you have proof or is this just your assumption?

 

The founding date is actually in M36, which means it was during the Age of Apostasy, so the Administration has gone to Hell, thus allowing for this creation.

Why would BA&Co risk the wrath of Inquisition and HLoT once they are found?

 

The Chapter was created to constantly search for relics, and to prevent Chaos and Xenos from finding them, and corrupting them.

Space marines are Emperor's Angels of Death, their sole purpose and duty is fighting the enemies of mankind, wherever they stick out its ugly head. They are not archaeologists, nor relic collectors. It is plausible as the side job, but as the sole purpose it's fairly low-grade reason for existence.

 

The battle over the forgeworld happened, half of the Titan legion turned against the other half, half of the mechanicus turned against the other half, so the Skitarii also switched, Half with one side, Half with the other. The chaos warband is really the Alpha Legion, who are famous for these kind of attacks and turning half against the other half, and the attacks were so well thought out, that it crippled the defenses anyways. All of that changed when the Chaos Warlord had his head blown off... The chaos fought amongst themselves for their next leader, but the war continued for another few months, until 12 full regiments, 5 titan legions, and two other chapters arrived. Finally chaos was defeated, and the millions of chaos worshippers, a long with the disloyal Mechanicus were killed. In return for their help, the ruler of the world gave the Sanguinary Crusaders a small forge-ship, and a battlebarge that had been recovered centuries ago, but had no owner, as the chapter who owned it had all perished.

Alpha legion is famous for it's lack of command structure and leadership, but you are on the good way... :P

 

The Sanguinary Crusaders battlecompanies, unlike the whole of the chapter, do follow codex orginazation in terms devastators, assault, and tactical squads. However, the commander does not always recognise that they can only field 2 assault squads, 2 devastator squads, and 6 tactical squads. If the situation calls for 10 devastators, he will field that many.

*Sigh*

Combat Doctrine = behaviour in battle, approach to tactical problems and war philosophy.

 

Observe:

Raven Guard CD is precise application of force and rapid redeployment of units.

Salamaders CD is preference for close-ranged firefights, using many melta and flamer weapons to smash armoured foes and burn whole swathes of lighter troops.

Iron Hands CD is fight with renowned intensity and determination, certain in the knowledge that they act for the good of Mankind by crusading against the weak and corrupted. The cold fury of the Chapter as it goes to battle is fearful to witness, and deadly in its effectiveness. The bitter Space Marines advance machine-like and relentless, throwing themselves violently at the enemy in their focused, severe fervour.

 

Shall I continue or do you understand?

 

The chapter only "officially" has 100 scouts, the rest are just "Auxilary Imperial Guardsmen, and loyal servants who have undergone some modifications to serve differant battlefield roles that we can not." But in all honesty, they are all recruits.

Before the comment, "Space marines can not have auxilary forces," comes up, just remember, the entirety Ultramar is sworn to the Ultramarines. They pay their tithes to them, they make the equipment for them, they send Imperial Guard regiments to them.

Space Marines homeworlds are allowed PDF (Planetary Defence Forces) and Chapter has auxiliary forces in the form of Serfs. However, all of these are using loopholes in the Edict of Separation of Power. IMHO, this is grey area and it causes more problems than solves.

 

Calgar himself rules that whole sector.

There is Realm of Ultramar and Realm of Ultramar. One is area of space, the other is single system. Confusing? Yes, but one thing is certain, Calgar rules the system.

 

Ok. Well again, I am trying to edit it, but it is not allowing me to edit it properly.

 

I will cut down on the scouts, and I tried adding to the beliefs (one reason the belief section is small is because, as I had said earlier, I ran out of time).

However, something about the scouts, if a chapter only ever had 100 scouts, how did they replace their losses in enough time to continue to do campaigns? I don't know about how many you lose in a game of 40k, but in many of the stories, and in many of the games (table top, not video), casualties are usually pretty high. With only 100 scouts, my chapter, which usually sends all but 1 or 2 companies out at a time (as they are looking for relics, and searching for a cure to the black rage, as well as protecting the Imperium), that is 10 scouts per company, which means that for years, only 10 of my marines can be replaced. The idea behind so many scouts, which I will add in when I can figure out how to edit it, is that each company can replace its numbers more efficiently, cutting back on the amount of times it will need to return.

First, the 10th Company is not restricted by the 100 guys per Company. There is no fixed size for 10th, all depends on the recruitment rate and in the case of BA this rate is far lower than in 'normal' Chapter, because of the flaw in BA's gene-seed.

Second, the codex organisation was established in order to keep the Battle Companies supplied with enough sufficiently trained warriors. If you don't follow the Codex organisation, you are just running into problems... Why do your Marines don't follow the Codex anyway? I said it before, the Blood Angels are actually codex-adherent Chapter.

Third, you are falling in the same trap like many people before. It was said several times, the casualties on the table top doesn't equal death of model. In majority of cases, the model is just unable of further combat; unconscious or heavily wounded.

Fourth, the game is made to be balanced, or at least with the attempt of such thing, the marines in terms of background are much hardcore than the marines in terms of rules.

[Marshal Rohr]

Ok, well it is not letting me edit properly, so I'll just somewhat do it on this.

 

How many scouts/recruits do the black templars have?

 

The Space Wolves have more than a hundred recruits as well, as each company recruits its own, and the bulk of their forces are their recruits.

 

The founding date is actually in M36, which means it was during the Age of Apostasy, so the Administration has gone to Hell, thus allowing for this creation.

 

The Chapter was created to constantly search for relics, and to prevent Chaos and Xenos from finding them, and corrupting them.

 

The battle over the forgeworld happened, half of the Titan legion turned against the other half, half of the mechanicus turned against the other half, so the Skitarii also switched, Half with one side, Half with the other. The chaos warband is really the Alpha Legion, who are famous for these kind of attacks and turning half against the other half, and the attacks were so well thought out, that it crippled the defenses anyways. All of that changed when the Chaos Warlord had his head blown off... The chaos fought amongst themselves for their next leader, but the war continued for another few months, until 12 full regiments, 5 titan legions, and two other chapters arrived. Finally chaos was defeated, and the millions of chaos worshippers, a long with the disloyal Mechanicus were killed. In return for their help, the ruler of the world gave the Sanguinary Crusaders a small forge-ship, and a battlebarge that had been recovered centuries ago, but had no owner, as the chapter who owned it had all perished.

 

The Sanguinary Crusaders battlecompanies, unlike the whole of the chapter, do follow codex orginazation in terms devastators, assault, and tactical squads.

However, the commander does not always recognise that they can only field 2 assault squads, 2 devastator squads, and 6 tactical squads. If the situation calls for 10 devastators, he will field that many.

 

 

The chapter only "officially" has 100 scouts, the rest are just "Auxilary Imperial Guardsmen, and loyal servants who have undergone some modifications to serve differant battlefield roles that we can not." But in all honesty, they are all recruits.

Before the comment, "Space marines can not have auxilary forces," comes up, just remember, the entirety Ultramar is sworn to the Ultramarines. They pay their tithes to them, they make the equipment for them, they send Imperial Guard regiments to them. Calgar himself rules that whole sector.

 

Yes, my chapter may have a few more guys than the codex allows, but the Black Templars have thousands more. They are actually estimated to be in the 10,000 range. The Space Wolves are the same way, having 12 companies, and each of those have more than 100 men. Heck, their recruits are full blown space marines in the beginning.

 

 

First, how would they access the geneseed banks to create a new chapter then? Those are controlled by the Adeptus Terra. Second, you keep using the TWO SPECIFIC examples of chapters that do things the wrong way. Stop doing that. Using the Templars and Wolves to justify your chapters deviance is like using more incorrect math to justify already screwed up math. They are example unto themselves, you dont get to be like them when building a DIY. According to the FFG Chapter Creation charts only 100 chapters of 1000 have unique organizations. By averages that means you dont get to do that.

 

Where will he find all those heavy weapons?

 

You dont know how many the Black Templars have. No one does. Only the High Marshal has an idea. You REALLY have to stop comparing your DIY to two of the best examples of independent chapters in existance.

[Arkangilos]

Well, I was wrong about the space wolves, the Grey Hunters are the most numerous, but their recruits are the blood claws.

 

They get their weapons by strategically allocating their resources...

 

They have 10 full battle companies because they are almost always gone.

 

I am about to edit it, which should improve it. Thank you for helping me NightwarenII, Ecritter, and Ace.

 

Marshall, I can do what I want, refferance what I want, and be one of the 100 deviant chapters if I want. I am just going to make it more believable that I am, and restrict it some. But you know what... I will be one of them, because I am not going to have only 4 battle companies.

Oh, and Marshall, guess what? Someone does know the general ratio of troops that belongs to the Black Templars. I am sorry to have offended you, Oh Master of the Fluff.

 

Nightwaren, how many scouts would be reasonable? Would one scout for every two marines be reasonable?

And I know that most of them do survive those battles, I was just a little frustrated. What I was really trying to refferance were the stories from the codex, but then those battles did not really happen very often either.

[Marshal Rohr]

Of course, you can do what you want. But you have a long way to go to make this chapter believable.

 

As for reference, would you use Libya as a decent reference for how you want to run your democracy? Then dont use the two primary examples of noncodex chapters. The fact your big beef with Codex Organization means you have yet to grasp the capabilities of a marine chapter. Im sure youll figure it out eventually.

 

Here is a situation. What battle that needs 10 Devastator squads couldnt be accomplished by a chapter's 9th company? You seem to dislike the idea that having a weapons section and an assault section in the 4 primary line units is a mistake and instead you should have more, hindering your flexibility. You can do as you please, but the reality is you are proposing a uniquely organized chapter with NO justification or common sense.

 

 

Oh, and the title is Marshal of the Fluff :(

[Arkangilos]

Ok, I just edited it, and I changed some stuff, so please go back and re-read.

[Captain Forcystus]

Quick little nitpick:

 

The Sanguinary Crusaders try to mimick the Blood Angels in the training and the assignment of roles such as assault, devastators, and tactical marines.

 

Their brothers that fall prey to the Black Rage are also placed into the Death Company, and wear all black. Each Death Company unit is led by a Chaplain.

 

These sentences arent really necessary as they more or less go without saying. They are after all Blood Angels successors so this is expected and thus doesnt really need to be listed.

 

And now back to the reading

[Leonaides]

OP- you do know that reserve companies see just as much fighting as battle companies, dont you? If a chapter is about to conduct an attack on a hive world, they're more likely to send a 9th comp contingent and an 8th co contingent with a battle company to give them more assault and siege specialists for the battles. Specialists that simply aren't in a battle company. Battle companies are the generic formations- the equivalent of tac squads compared to assault or devs.

[Ace Debonair]

I will cut down on the scouts, and I tried adding to the beliefs (one reason the belief section is small is because, as I had said earlier, I ran out of time).

However, something about the scouts, if a chapter only ever had 100 scouts, how did they replace their losses in enough time to continue to do campaigns? I don't know about how many you lose in a game of 40k, but in many of the stories, and in many of the games (table top, not video), casualties are usually pretty high. With only 100 scouts, my chapter, which usually sends all but 1 or 2 companies out at a time (as they are looking for relics, and searching for a cure to the black rage, as well as protecting the Imperium), that is 10 scouts per company, which means that for years, only 10 of my marines can be replaced. The idea behind so many scouts, which I will add in when I can figure out how to edit it, is that each company can replace its numbers more efficiently, cutting back on the amount of times it will need to return.

Another reason behind so many scouts is in fact, the Black Rage. With the numbers of the marines succumbing to it increasing (as stated in the BA codex), and the constant crusades to find relics and the cure, the amount of fall back troops needs to be higher. Also, more scouts means more scouting, which means more chances of victory through intel.

 

I also seriously doubt that there are only 100 scouts in even the most codex strict chapters. I have every rule book since the beginning (with the exception of 2 or 3 codexes, but I have friends that have those), as well as most of the 40k novels, and I know that with the battles fought, 100 scouts would not be enough to replace their losses. The codex says that there will be a scout company of 100 scouts. Well, there is a company of 100 scouts at any one time, but there is nothing saying that there are not scouts divided up amongst the companies, that aren't worth mentioning. It is also said that there can not be any more than 1000 battle-brothers, but it can be said that scouts have not earned the honor of being a battle brother.

 

Those are just a few thoughts. And again, I say thank you for the feed back, and I am trying to change some, but for the most part, it will remain largely the same.

The only real problem is that having the apparent 100 scouts works for all the other Chapters out there.

 

I agree that if thought about realistically, having so few scouts is maybe not the most sensible way of going on, but it's par for the course with Space Marines.

 

However, one thing that is both important and useful is that the background/stories and the actual game itself are two very, very different animals.

 

Just as an example, say your company of marines run into a vast horde of orks.

 

In the game, the fight could probably go either way, depending on army lists, placement of troops, tactics employed, and so forth.

In the 'fluff', however, the same marines could probably kill twice as many without ever really being in danger of losing the fight.

 

So, in the story of your chapter, you wouldn't need as many scouts because your marines would seldom be taking heavy losses the same way they would in the actual game, if that makes sense.

 

EDIT:

Oh wait, this has all already been said. D'oh!

Shows how much attention I was paying, huh?

[NightrawenII]

Hmm...

 

Home World

- What kind of planet is Damoria IV? and What kind of people lives here?

 

Battle Doctrine

They also have a somewhat unusual amount of skill with heavy weapons, and so have more ready to fill the roles of devastaors.

- "somewhat unusual" is not explanation at all.

 

it usually starts with scouts weeks before the attack

- So, the rest of company sits on its arse and waits for weeks?

 

Orginazation

The Sanguinary Crusaders do not strictly follow the codex, in terms of orginazation

- Why? The "always be on crusade" doesn't work, because all Chapters are always battle ready.

 

The veterans are orginized into the lowest of Archangels, and are known as the Eternal Archangels. They are never fielded as a unit in its entirety, and are broken up amongst the companies as their campaign demands.

- So, Why are the Eternal Archangels outside of formal organisation? and Why aren't formed into Veteran Company like in other Chapters? Btw, the Eternal Archangels works exactly in the same way like the Codex Veteran Company.

 

The scouts are also not a single unit. They make up the pool of recruits. As often as possible, the Sanguinary Crusaders attempt to keep the ratio of recruits to marines 1 to 1, but this is not often possible, and so when the recruits are low in number, they will send the scouts out amongst the companies as the campaigns demand. However, they will never put more than 100 scouts in one company.

- Same questions like above...

 

The High Chaplain and Sanguinary High Priest are held in the same respect as the Chapter Master, and as such hold his authority when he is not present. The Chief Librarian is a figure of awe, and is the Chapter Masters most trusted advisor. Unlike many chapters, Librarians are not feared, nor are they shunned, but instead respected.

The command structure of the Sanguinary Crusaders is known as the Circle of Archangels, and to be considered an Archangel is the highest honor.

There are three layers:

The Inner Circle consists of the Chapter Master, Chapter Champion, Sanguinary High Priest, the Artificer Maximus, the High Chaplain, the Chief Librarian, and the Master of the Sanguinary Guard.

The Middle Circle consists of the Company Captains, the senior Librarians, the Sanguinary Guard, the Sanguinary Priests, the Chaplains, the Master of Recruits, the Master of the Fleet, and the Tech Marines.

The Outer Circle, known as the Eternal Archangels are the Veterans and Dreadnaughts.

- This belongs in the "Organisation" section, having it at the end of article is kind of pointless.

- Also Why?

[Leonaides]

Also- that sort of command structure doesn't make sense. Chapter champ is a fighter, not a leader. You appear to be mixing command structure, force org chart positions and unofficial respected positions. I'll try and clarify later for you, unless someone else can?

[Arkangilos]

Leonaidos, to answer your question: The chapter champion is one of the greatest fighters in the chapter. However, he also has to have a great tactical and strategic mind, as well as be inspiring to the men. These traits, and the fact that mine has been delagated the overall command of the veterans, he makes a perfect successor to the chapter master. For game purposes, he counts as a captain, but his title is champion (as he is seen as a champion).

In the Blood Angel codex, the Blood Angels can not get chapter champions, only blood champions.

[Leonaides]

You're describing a first company captain, not a chapter champ. A chapter champ will inspire the other marines, but it does not follow that he will be a tactical genius, and if he was, he'd be a captain or even the chapter master. You're still confusing roles. I'll try and explain better in a couple of hours.

[Arkangilos]

Where does it say that chapter champions can not be leaders in their own right? And again, the Blood Angel codex does not even list the chapter champion, and has no rules for them, it is just a title. For example, Master of the Forge, or Master of Skyfall. Those are titles. The titles change depending on what chapter it is, the Blood Angel Armory is commanded by Brother Incarael, who has the title Master of the Blade, where as the Ultramarine's is Fennias Maxim, who is the Master of the Forge.

 

My Chapter calls its first company captain the Chapter Champion, he has proven himself above all others, he is the Champion of the Chapter. He can no be the Chapter Master, because there is already a chapter master, but he is the next in line for the possition. Again, just a title.

 

The company champions of the Codex Space Marines are called, "Company Champions." The champions of the Blood Angels are called, "Blood Champions." Just titles. Do you understand what I am saying?

[Ecritter]

Basically you can I guess, but it does place the CM in danger more then necessary.

[Leonaides]

The problem is when you then have the captains listed at the 2nd tier of command. If the chapter champ, as you call him, is a captain, then he should be here. Or you should have made it clear that he is the equivalent to the 1st co captain. Using a title like that with a different meaning without explaining causes problems.

[Arkangilos]

It says Chapter Champion, Master of the Eternal Archangles, which means he leads the Eternal Archangels. He is not a regular captain who leads regular battle brothers, but is the Chapter Champion, who leads the Veterans, and the next in line for the Chapter Master, which would put him in a higher position than the other captains, who have not yet achieved his greatness.

 

(edit) Oh, haha, it doesn't. Sorry, I thought I did put it in there. I wrote all of this down before I typed it up, and I just forgot to add his second title, sorry again :P

[Leonaides]

That might help...