newbie questions

[maverik_girl]

Hey guys sorry, you'll have to excuse me as I'm half a zombie right now, working a long shift at the hospital. Anyway, some questions for you all. I appreciate your help!

 

1) 10 Grey Hunters vs 9 Grey Hunters + Wolf Guard Pack Leader. How do you choose between the two? which is better? I understand or heard that before this codex, 10 Grey Hunters could hold up on their own. I can understand the appeal on adding a Wolf Guard Pack Leader, but is it mandatory in today's current edition? is it smart or okay to go without it? and how do you guys go about this? Could I attach a pack leader say... by turn 4 or 5, even 6? say I just have a 10 man Grey Hunter pack and by the time turn 4 comes, my 10 man is down to 8 or so. Could I then in theory, attach a Wolf Guard pack leader? I know it feels and sounds more like having my cake and eathing it too haha

 

2) how come I can't put a Lone Wolf in terminator armor, inside a razorback? Doesnt he count as two models? but razorbacks can fit six!? Did I miss something here?

 

3) just want to clarify this one, runic weapons are force weapons, that are also power weapons? also what's with the appeal on single wolf claws? why not have two?

 

4) if I used my melta bomb on my opponent, is it a one time use? or do I have several melta bombs?

 

5) Bjorn the Fellhanded, I understand he doesn't get a drop pod? how do you get him to where you want him to go quickly? what are some of the ways to get him closer if he doesn't get dedicated vehicles.

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

1) I tend to go for 9 GH with a wolf guard and power fist. Not only is the power fist cheaper on the wolf guard, you can also give him a combimelta to make up for the one you miss out on when you don't take 10 GH, and he gets more attacks with his power fist. The extra LD also helps considerably when you don't want to get pinned in a wrecked transport in front of enemy lines, and when to take the leadership test for counter charge.

 

And no, you can't attach him later in the game. You have to have written in your list which squad gets what wolf guard and so forth.

 

2) The codex says you can't. They don't give a proper reason. Maybe terminators are just too bulky to fit, or too heavy.

 

3) Yes, runic weapons are force weapons, and therefore ignore armour saves. The benefits on a single wolf claw are that for the first wolf claw you buy, you generally get more "bang for your buck", as it affects all the attacks a model has (for example, for the costs of one wolf claw, a wolf lord gets 4 attacks with a wolf claw). For the second one, you only get one attack, so comparatively, the more attacks a model has, the less desirable an extra wolf claw becomes on a cost effectiveness basis.

 

Wolf guard terminators with storm shields and wolf claws are also something quite beautiful - they attack at I4, and still get that 3+ invul. The problem with terminators that have thunder hammer and storm shields is that usually you tend to put the wounds caused by power weapons on models with storm shields, and TH/S terminators are the ones that have the storm shields. The problem is they also attack at I1, so you risk losing their attacks by putting power weapon wounds on them.

 

4) They can use melta bombs as many times as they like. Where they store these massive things is questionable, but theoretically buying the meltabomb upgrade gets you 14 of the things. One for each turn.

 

5) No, he can't get a drop pod (which makes him somewhat useless in my book), and there isn't any quick way of transporting him in normal games. All he can do, really, is run instead of shooting, but then he's not taking advantage of BS6. With his 4 S10 attacks he's the bane of all characters (well, most), but unless they come to him, he's got no real way of showing them who's boss.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

The Pack leader, in itself, is a bargain. An extra attack and Ld for three points. Wow.

What he costs is really a free second weapon....

 

If you give him a Power fist, he gets double the attacks as a Grey Hunter would. And his Pf is five points cheaper too.

As he has a Pf, he gets no benefit from having two mêlée weapons and so you might as well give him a combi-weapon.

So this is a natural build for the Pack leader. It just lends itself to his strengths and weaknesses.

 

The Pack leader must start the game with the pack and cannot ever leave. He is, for all intents and purposes, part of the pack, just like a sergeant.

 

+++

 

Ld 8 is 26/36 likely to succeed. Or 72.2%

Ld 9 is 30/36 likely to succeed. Or 83.3%

 

An extra 9% of morale and counter-attack checks is a big boost.

 

+++

 

Terminator armour only fits in Drop Pods and Land Raiders. Perhaps it is too tall for Rhinos and Razorbacks? :P

 

+++

 

Runic weapons are force weapons, which are also power weapons. So yes, Runic weapons are power weapons. See BBB [The main rule book] pg 50

 

Wolf Claws are not cheaper for the second claw. So you spend Xpts to give 4 attacks the uprade, yet you pay the same Xpts to get just one more attack. That is not a good deal.

In the older editions, the second weapon was cheaper, but no more.

Just like the Pf, that means you can give the mini a weapon that doesn't give him the additional attack, because he won't get it because of using the Wc anyway.

So Storm shields and combi-weapons are good buddies for Wc

 

+++

 

You have unlimited melta bombs, but only use one per assault phase.

 

+++

 

Bjorn is old and doesn't care for being whizzed around like a mail order. You cannot overcome this flaw. You have to play to it.

<_<

[Bulweih]

My usual greeting fails here so I'll just go through the questions one by one. Still, welcome to the fang!

 

1a. I usually take 10 men and the second special weapon. Why?-Well, first I roll good when it comes to morale checks and secondly I find it very useful to have the second shot/weapon available all game long instead of the one-shot combi weapon of the packleader which tends to fail me way too often when needed. It's not seen often these days but I still think it's a personal choice thing really-never lost due to that way of playing my Grey Hunters.

 

1b. No, you can never attach a WG ingame, just before. You can let an IC join a pack during a game, but that's it

 

2. Models in TDA can never be transported in Rhino based vehicles, I think it's stated in the armor entry. Sad but true.

The "no vehicles for Lone Wolves" thing is their only drawback for me.

 

3a. Yes. They are power weapons with additional functions and possibilities.

3b. It's a points thing. Wolfclaw+ Stormshield is a recommended combo. But again i.m.o. it's down to your personal gusto here.

 

4. You have enough meltabombs for the hole game.

 

5. Bjorn can't get a transport and with his abilities/drawbacks you want him to stay back and become an objective in your homebase area to not give up the points, don't have the need to spread your force too wide to reach and so forth

 

 

Hope that helps some.

[maverik_girl]

wow guys! thank you ;) very helpful answers and replies! you guys are awesome! I'm slowly starting to appreciate and respect tabletop gamers more and more, as I learn more and more haha. All of these rules and strategies..... is completely different in so many ways and levels from what I'm used to in the video gaming world

[Forté]

Glad you asked these too. Especially the 10 v 9 GH one.

[Emperors Immortals]

Im a bit of a freak for terminators, and the old fluff (2nd edor there abouts) states that terminator armour is far to bulky to fit inside the hull of a rhino chasis - which many have taken to mean its far to tall.

 

I agree with the idea, because they were originally meant to add about 50% more bulk to a troop who could only just fit inside himself.

 

Also, most games ive played will last round 5 odd turns, by that time either one side has lost by attrition or they are both clearly in a position to carry on.

 

And as for video games, the Space Marine game is being released real soon.....i personaly cant wait and even my wife is (reluctantly) excited about it - she cant stop playing oblivion!!!

[maverik_girl]

6) for Wolf Guard... is it better to strike at initiative or sacrifice that for a thunder hammer or power fist? wouldn't it be better to strike faster with power weapons? I realize it all depends on who your facing but in general, is it smarter to take out your opponent, than wait until everyone else takes a swing at you?

 

7) also just want to make sure about chainfist. They strike like power fist right? as in initiative? so if I'm not hitting at a vehicle, and just fighting in combat against normal infantry. Do I still strike like a power fist? as in... do I benefit with the strength that comes with a power fist?

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

The problem is that a power weapon has only a small chance of causing a wound (usually 50%), after hitting. And 3 attacks just aren't enought (most of the time, statistically you won't even get one kill). The other problem is getting stuck in combat with something like a walker. You won't have a chance of hurting it, and it'll tie your valuable grey hunters up for a long time if you dont' do something about it. All our squads (except fenrisian wolves) carry krak grenades, but they just aren't good enough most of the time. You'll also give characters something to think about because S8 means that a single wound will kill most of them instantly.

 

Yes you benefit from the strength of the power fist. Its just a power fist with some fancy rules against vehicles. If you're using terminators, it pays to have one or two of the guy with chain fists.

[Bulweih]

6. Well that depends on the job for said WG-

As packleader hitting last with the fist isn't so bad. The Grey's swing at I4 and for the wounds you get you can take some of them of the table and then swing the fist. You have to hit first, but then you wound with a 2 instead of 4 or sth. you need with a powerblade or else. If you prefer hitting at Ini, I recommend a frostblade for +1S or a wolfclaw for that reroll to wound or hit.

 

7.Yes it's a powerfist (Ini1) that grants a second d6 for armor penetration and doubles the wearer's strength. Good for hunting tanks, but for cc I prefer a hammer.

[Dahli Llama]

And no, you can't attach him later in the game. You have to have written in your list which squad gets what wolf guard and so forth.

 

Just a note on this...

 

While you can't move the Wolf Guard around during the game, you do not need to determine where the Wolf Guard goes until you deploy. So you don't need to have that aspect set in stone on your list.

 

It's not a big difference, since you won't change it up too often, but it does give some flexibility if you want to move stuff around based on deployment or game objectives.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

The wolf brothers continue to show their generosity of spirit and I can think of nothing to add except:

 

Welcome to the Fang little sister

[maverik_girl]

Okay, so I was wondering if this option is legal, practical or at least viable: say I wanted to have two full, 10 man Grey Hunter packs in their rhinos. (I like that I have 2 plasma guns, the one plasma gun being free!) Anyway, and lets say I have a Wolf Priest with a jump pack following behind the two rhino's. Once my two Grey Hunter packs leave their transport, and battle starts, could I then attach the Wolf Priest when he's needed? say the one Grey Hunter pack is going to assault in the next turn, could I then have my Wolf Priest jump to that pack.... join it, and after the assault leave them? and try to do the same to the other Grey Hunter pack? kinda like outsourcing the Wolf Priest to whichever Grey Hunter pack needs him for the assault or leadership test. Is that do-able? legal? practical? LOL I was just wondering..........

[maverik_girl]

my other question goes out to littlbits whom I understand uses allot of skyclaws? or was it bikes? any who... for those people who use skyclaws, are they worth it? I've seen people use a 5 man pack, but I don't know how long a 5 man skyclaw pack can last in a game. Is it even worth the points to waste?

[Grey Mage]

You can add or detach the wolf priest from the squad during the movement phase, sure- but not if hes in combat.

 

That he has a jump pack doesnt change his IC status or prevent him joining units.

 

The only problem is if hes still with the squad and theyre still in assault he cant just leave. The enemy must be destroyed and driven before you before he can move to the other squad.

 

Also- I field Skyclaws+WP from time to time. Theyre a solid unit, if a bit one dimensional- I hand my a flamer and a powerfist to keep my options open, but really they just walk up and hit someone. Not alot of subtle there....

 

They can take alot of fire if you dont use them right though- rhinos to block LOS and grant cover, use cover, jump over buildings and large terrain etc.

 

If you dont want to use a landraider to bring in some BCs, Skyclaws are a solid option.

[Loki-LaughingDeath]

Hey guys sorry, you'll have to excuse me as I'm half a zombie right now, working a long shift at the hospital. Anyway, some questions for you all. I appreciate your help!

 

1) 10 Grey Hunters vs 9 Grey Hunters + Wolf Guard Pack Leader. How do you choose between the two? which is better? I understand or heard that before this codex, 10 Grey Hunters could hold up on their own. I can understand the appeal on adding a Wolf Guard Pack Leader, but is it mandatory in today's current edition? is it smart or okay to go without it? and how do you guys go about this? Could I attach a pack leader say... by turn 4 or 5, even 6? say I just have a 10 man Grey Hunter pack and by the time turn 4 comes, my 10 man is down to 8 or so. Could I then in theory, attach a Wolf Guard pack leader? I know it feels and sounds more like having my cake and eathing it too haha

 

2) how come I can't put a Lone Wolf in terminator armor, inside a razorback? Doesnt he count as two models? but razorbacks can fit six!? Did I miss something here?

 

3) just want to clarify this one, runic weapons are force weapons, that are also power weapons? also what's with the appeal on single wolf claws? why not have two?

 

4) if I used my melta bomb on my opponent, is it a one time use? or do I have several melta bombs?

 

5) Bjorn the Fellhanded, I understand he doesn't get a drop pod? how do you get him to where you want him to go quickly? what are some of the ways to get him closer if he doesn't get dedicated vehicles.

 

6) for Wolf Guard... is it better to strike at initiative or sacrifice that for a thunder hammer or power fist? wouldn't it be better to strike faster with power weapons? I realize it all depends on who your facing but in general, is it smarter to take out your opponent, than wait until everyone else takes a swing at you?

 

7) also just want to make sure about chainfist. They strike like power fist right? as in initiative? so if I'm not hitting at a vehicle, and just fighting in combat against normal infantry. Do I still strike like a power fist? as in... do I benefit with the strength that comes with a power fist?

 

1) That depends on you and your preferences. If you look at it from a numbers perspective you are getting more in up close fighting if you choose to equip your wolf guard that way. From a fluff perspective Grey Hunters are capable of handling their own fights. Wolf Guard Pack Leaders have to be assigned before the dice start flying... sorry no cake for you!

 

2) According to what I have read the Rhino/Razorbacks aren't big enough to handle Tactical Dreadnaught Armor. It's kinda like Haegar trying to fit in one...ain't gonna happen!

 

3) Force Weapons are count as Power weapons with the additional benefits.

 

4) When you select Melta Bombs you get enough for the battle! But unlike second edition you can't use them on people.

 

5) I am stumped on this one.

 

6) The power weapon is a quick killer great for going up against softer targets like Guardsmen, guants, I even prefer them against orks. Power fists/ Thunder hammers are great for harder targets, Nobs in Mega Armor Marine(s) Characters Monstrous Creatures. The trade is speed for power, but there is great medium in the Frost Blade/Axe which is a nice balance between the two.

 

7)Yep the Chain Fist is the super duper can opener strikes at initiative 1 doubles strength and rolls 2d6 for armor pen.

 

As for the last question about the utility Wolf Priest you it is possible but only over a series of turns. Once you commit him to a pack he has to stay with that pack till the next turn. Once he leaves that pack he cannot join another unit till the next turn. This is the problem that I see with that strategy. You are not hitting your target hard enough. If you are charging in one pack at a time you are spreading out your forces and leaving the first pack vulnerable to a counter attack. If you are hitting with multiple packs you are tying up his reserves and less vulnerable to counter attacks and shooting should you wipe out a unit. This works with some armies, however I wouldn't suggest this with DE Wyches or Eldar Howling Banshees.

[Grimtooth]

As for the last question about the utility Wolf Priest you it is possible but only over a series of turns. Once you commit him to a pack he has to stay with that pack till the next turn. Once he leaves that pack he cannot join another unit till the next turn. This is the problem that I see with that strategy. You are not hitting your target hard enough. If you are charging in one pack at a time you are spreading out your forces and leaving the first pack vulnerable to a counter attack. If you are hitting with multiple packs you are tying up his reserves and less vulnerable to counter attacks and shooting should you wipe out a unit. This works with some armies, however I wouldn't suggest this with DE Wyches or Eldar Howling Banshees.

 

Actually a wolf priest can leave and join a new unit in the same movement phase as long as he is not in combat.

 

So he can join one pack, fight an assault, win said assault. Next SW player turn, he could detach from that unit and end his move within 2" of another unit thus joining that unit.

[maverik_girl]

I'm sorry if I keep bringing this thread back, but I'm trying to wrap my head around something important when building my army. I realize that this is a no-brainer to most of you, but I'm trying to see what works best. Okay so I guess this questions go with #1) but here goes... Grey Hunter load-out. Two of the same or one of each?

 

I know and realize the benefits of having two of the same weapons (plasma gun, and plasma gun) but with that, you can rapid fire and hope for the counter-assault from your opponent. Do people prefer having two of the same? Or having one of each (melta gun, and plasma gun), keeping the Grey Hunter packs versatile. So what makes a better Grey Hunter pack outside of having a Wolf Guard pack leader?

 

What works better or best for you? what is more practical and tactical?

[Grey Mage]

I usually prefer to have 2 of the same, however Ive found in city-fight, or other rather terrain heavy boards it can pay to have a meltagun and a flamer.

 

I would never, ever, mix a plasmagun with a flamer or melta though. Ever. Rapid Fire and assault are like oil and water, and itll end up with the plasmagun being a complete waste as often as not- or the short ranged weapon will reduce my ranged shooting. The lack of focus more than overshadows any extra flexability, not like a C:SM heavy where you can really use that weapon at 48" to save your bacon.

 

My Standard GH pack is 2x PG and a Powerfist, with a Rhino or DP and a Totem. Runs 230pts, east just about anything in the game for breakfast. Need infantry dead? I got the mass shots for it and the plasma to eat heavy infantry. How about vehicles? S7 is good up to around AV 12, wich is most of the vehicles in the game. Monstrous Creatures? Torrent fire with bolters, cut wounds off with plasma. The Powerfist is good insurance for a squad thats as likely to be in the enemies teeth as plinking them at range.

 

After that its 2xMG, a PW, toten, and Rhino or DP. Why not a PF? Because, I already gave them 2 meltas- they should be killing tanks at range. The PW gives me more attacks vs. infantry but gives them a little extra bite.

 

Rarely Ill field my 2xFlamer, PF, Totem, Rhino/DP pack. Why so rare? Because bolters do everything a flamer can do at 2-3 times the range. I dont usually need the extra horde-killing firepower, few things in the game wont either be crippled or break and run from rapid firing GHs that wont laugh off some flamer templates. *shrugs* I do give them a PF, just in case they come up to a vehicle or a MC they need to work on.

 

Why dont I use MotW? Because its to random. Rending, of a random number of attacks? Sorry- I like the assurance of knowing that those armor saves arent going to be taken. Sure, MotW might get more attack- in fact it probly will- but GHs already dish out a crapton of attacks for a troops squad so I dont feel I need the boost. On top of that... its 15pts. If it were five Id take it, 10.... maybe sometimes. 15pts is just to much for something that seems to me to be a half-assed attempt at a second powerweapon.

 

Plasma Pistols on the other hand... those crop up when I have the points. Ive got a spare model for each of my packs with a PP in hand- theyre pricey, so its one of those 'if I can' kind of upgrades. A plasmahunter pack with a pistol thrown in eats monstrous creatures and terminators, and the extra firepower in a meltahunter pack sometimes pays off- and helps when facing MCs. In flamer packs its more a piece of insurance.

 

I will never, under any circumstances, take a GH unit that costs more than 250pts. I take one per 500, of GHs and the occaisional BC unit to assure that I have enough boots on the ground, and I rarely take 5 man units- who usually end up with Meltagun, PW, and a Razorback as the bodygaurd for a Rune Priest. Having 50 PA bodies on the field at 1500pts makes a force hard to kill, and I find that alot of the time people end up dying because they dont have enough depth in their units. On the other end, Ive heard success stories about small units and razorbacks being spammed to hell and back, but every time Ive seen someone try it on the table they end up losing. Dead transports and small, easily wiped squads.

[RunningWolfFenris]

Glad I read this. I have had similar questions, especially like #1

[G. A. K.]

Welcome to the Fang.

Grab an Ale, and one for me while your up, And we shall ramble on (and on...) about each of our own thoughts/opinions on your questions. use what you want and discard the rest, we are a bunch of old drunken warriors who are stuck in our ways afterall. :D But I do hope I can be of some help to you.

ohhh I fondly remember my early days of two PWs and two Plasma pistols in a squad even before I added the WG w/ a PF. But I digress, now its a much harder choice.

 

First and foremost I like the Wolf Guard. These days my standard loadout is the Wolf standard, MotW, a melta, and a WG w/ PF riding in a rhino/pod. I must disagree with Grey Mage on the topic of the MotW though. I have been a convert recently because you may see the random aspect as a negative (I did) but remember you are always going to get the same if not more regular attacks than a GH but the rending is icing on the cake. and having a different guy in the squad can really help you when it comes time for wound allocation.

 

On the topic of two weapons I usually use just one unit big enough in a Redeemer (with Ragnar) who get a standard, MotW, the free flamer and then the free melta, and I throw in a PW on the banner guy for no other reason than my own army's fluff (he was always one of the two guys with a PW in the old days and has gained his own saga of distain amoung his local enemies :D ) along with a WG with TH/SS (a bit pricly I know but he's saved the day more than once). I do agree not to mix the styles of weapon though, I always go for the assault so I stick to the assault weapons. Wolves rarely can out shoot reg marines but we rock in the assault so I try to maximize our strengths.

 

G

[Grimtooth]

I never mix.

 

The situations that you will find yourself in will almost always find you not using one weapon while not using another. I would much rather have what I call "redundancy" builds. Dual meltaguns so I can almost assuredly pop the tank when I target it. Dual plasmaguns so I can almost assuredly double tap MEQ down with no problem.

 

I think relying on dice rolls to produce an ideal environment where two different weapons work in perfect concert are just pipe dreams.

 

Just to touch on the real synergy of how weapon combos work, it is close support tactics.

 

Two Grey Hunter packs, one dual melta and the other dual plasma. Moving in concert to engage enemies together. Meltas pop the tank, plasmas double tap the occupants, and then melta squad assaults the survivors while plasmas serve as counter assault to discourage or move to engage any enemy support moving towards beleaguered squad. Now that is sound synergy and those are sound tactics.

[Prot]

Maverick Girl,

 

Most of your questions are basic rules answers, and everyone has given you good answers, but I'd like to go back to your first question which really has a little more depth to it.

 

The obvious advantage of taking a 10 man Grey Hunter squad is the budget special weapons. I still do this myself in odd circumstances, especially if I am podding a squad in for specialized work (IE: taking out armour.)

 

The not-so-obvious disadvantage: In taking a 10 man Grey Hunter squad, you are probably filling a transport to capacity in most cases leaving no room for leadership.

 

Let me give you an example.... when the codex first came out, all my Grey Hunter squads were 10 man, dual special weapons. Then I started playing smarter opponents, and they started tank shocking me.... tank shocking me off the table!!

 

In my area, this became a defacto tactic. Tank shocking is actually VERY strong, but you rarely see new players, or non-competitive types really leverage it. I've actually watched large squads get shocked out of existence.

 

So if for nothing else, I find the Wolf Guard -nearly- mandatory for leadership purposes alone. In such cases, the Wolf Guard can (and usually does) do well to get a combi-weapon along with his fist/hammer. It's only one point of leadership but I can't tell you how often it's saved me..... for counter-charge, or moral purposes.

[Levitas]

I'm a never mix guy either. Before you deploy you should know what you want that unit to do. 'What ifs' most times end up a waste of points. Focus wins games.

 

Grey Hunters also pack a lot of punch as basic, so I keep the points down and take more of them. I find a special and a power weapon, backed up by a wolf guard with combi and fist/frost blade does well. Then for the back field I run razor backs with a plasmagun to guard the long fangs and home objectives.

 

You can easily put a lot of points into GH packs. But the fact we have some really cheap units means we can get a lot of bodies on the board compared to other chapters. I like numbers compared to over tooled up units. With so much firepower out there you are guaranteed to have rhinos blown apart, so your expensive GH pack is then walking.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

My Standard GH pack is 2x PG and a Powerfist, with a Rhino or DP and a Totem. Runs 230pts, east just about anything in the game for breakfast. Need infantry dead? I got the mass shots for it and the plasma to eat heavy infantry. How about vehicles? S7 is good up to around AV 12, wich is most of the vehicles in the game. Monstrous Creatures? Torrent fire with bolters, cut wounds off with plasma. The Powerfist is good insurance for a squad thats as likely to be in the enemies teeth as plinking them at range.

 

After that its 2xMG, a PW, toten, and Rhino or DP. Why not a PF? Because, I already gave them 2 meltas- they should be killing tanks at range. The PW gives me more attacks vs. infantry but gives them a little extra bite.

 

Rarely Ill field my 2xFlamer, PF, Totem, Rhino/DP pack. Why so rare? Because bolters do everything a flamer can do at 2-3 times the range. I dont usually need the extra horde-killing firepower, few things in the game wont either be crippled or break and run from rapid firing GHs that wont laugh off some flamer templates. *shrugs* I do give them a PF, just in case they come up to a vehicle or a MC they need to work on.

 

Why dont I use MotW? Because its to random. Rending, of a random number of attacks? Sorry- I like the assurance of knowing that those armor saves arent going to be taken. Sure, MotW might get more attack- in fact it probly will- but GHs already dish out a crapton of attacks for a troops squad so I dont feel I need the boost. On top of that... its 15pts. If it were five Id take it, 10.... maybe sometimes. 15pts is just to much for something that seems to me to be a half-assed attempt at a second powerweapon.

 

Plasma Pistols on the other hand... those crop up when I have the points. Ive got a spare model for each of my packs with a PP in hand- theyre pricey, so its one of those 'if I can' kind of upgrades. A plasmahunter pack with a pistol thrown in eats monstrous creatures and terminators, and the extra firepower in a meltahunter pack sometimes pays off- and helps when facing MCs. In flamer packs its more a piece of insurance.

 

It is funny how our, peoples, design ideas differ.

 

You like a 1 attack model with a XXV pts power fist?

That seems like very expensive insurance that doesn't give you that much coverage, imo.

I know you want the second Pg, but imo, you either get the Wolf Guard for the powerfist, and miss the Pg, or vice versa.

 

Then onto the Mg pack. The PF is a much more natural friend than the PW - you are within 12" and perhaps even 6", and so it is not that unlikely that you will be close enough to volley and charge the foe. Mgs are not automatic, and so some s8 PF attacks to back that up seems more usable.

But perhaps that is because I am used to the under equipped Templars, who have administration errors with grenades.... :tu:

 

What the flamers offer is not extra bolter power, but being able to use that "bolter power" from within the vehicle. Tank shock! and twin flame is where it's at ;) It is much like what Burna boyz in trukks or Wagons do to such good effect.

Also, because Greys don't have to assault to be effective, getting 1" from the foe and RF+flaming seems like a good way to torrent units away....

 

I think there is some mathhammer to show that MotW is almost, like 90% iIrc, as effective against MEq as a PW, but is much more effective against Horde.

Sometimes not having power weapon attacks at the same initiative as normal attacks is no lose, due to wound allocation....

Popping the Totem with MotW just seems like buffing a buff to me, as MotW has much more 'win big' potential than a power weapon.

 

Yet you like Pp, which are massively expensive for what they do [just compare it to a Pg or Mg] ~ must be within 12", can miss due to being just one shot, and aren't that effective against AV or infantry - a Pg or Mg are much more killy due to MELTA or insta-killing t4 and due to twice the number of shots.

 

+++

 

As they say, one man's meat is another man's fish. :lol: