sube Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Question for the fluff experts I havent read the space hulk booklet, but i've heard that it provides some background on the "unfortunate" boarding of a space hulk 600 years ago or so. Only 50 blood angels made it out alive. But, i did not understand if it means 50 out of the entire chapter (that's what the lexicanum claims), or 50 out of whatever strike force boarded the hulk (1st company at least, plus others probably). Now, a chapter reduced to only 50 members would be disbanded, i'd say, and also it is not the smartest idea to board a hulk with every marine you got. But, i did not write the novel (and i havent read it either), so... anyone knows more about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 It seems weird to me, too. Perhaps it was initially thought that only 50 marines survived of the 100 (maybe the first company), but then was changed to 1000 as it would be more "dramatic". It's my own guess. But honestly I ignore this piece of fluff. It's too unelievable. IIRC the Celestial Lions were "doomed" after approx 100 or 200 marines remained of all the chapter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 The fluff is that 50 members of the entire Chapter survived (which I agree sounds improbable, but I didn't write it). The Celestial Lions were doomed because all of their Apothecaries were killed. With no one left to perform the rites necessary to implant the necessary gene-seed organs into new aspirants, a Chapter is doomed. So the remaining members of the Chapter swore to die fighting on Armageddon. Apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 IIRC, there is no such story in the annals of Blood Angels in any of our Codices. The Space Hulk fluff has nothing to do with 40K fluff. It was purely written for stand-alone dramatic effect specifically and especially for Space Hulk and Space Hulk alone. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isryion Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 IIRC, there is no such story in the annals of Blood Angels in any of our Codices. The Space Hulk fluff has nothing to do with 40K fluff. It was purely written for stand-alone dramatic effect specifically and especially for Space Hulk and Space Hulk alone. <_< The Space Hulk fluff is mentioned in the new codex but I don't believe it contains a lot of those details. It simply mentions avenging a humiliation of the chapter or somesuch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 IIRC, there is no such story in the annals of Blood Angels in any of our Codices. The Space Hulk fluff has nothing to do with 40K fluff. It was purely written for stand-alone dramatic effect specifically and especially for Space Hulk and Space Hulk alone. <_< The Space Hulk fluff is mentioned in the new codex but I don't believe it contains a lot of those details. It simply mentions avenging a humiliation of the chapter or somesuch. Yeah I just reread that. It hinted toward it in a lame attempt to unite the 2 TOTALLY different game systems, but initially when it was written for SH, that was solely to demonstarte the monumental efforts of clearing a hulk. It's like watching any of the comic book movies after collecting them as a teenager. You have to separate the two and watch as a fan of the movie or you can go crazy as an avid collector and criticize the film for EVERYTHING that doesn't match the original printed copy of whatever issue way back in the day. Two separate audiences. Same with SH and 40K. At least that's what I believe. I LOVE SPACE HULK, don't get me wrong!!! But it is for a different audience than the average 4x6er. I remember playing through all of the SH scenarios last year by myself - I just used a D6 to randomly enter Genestealers at the various entry points - and that in and of itself is an ENTIRELY different scenario than that of a wide-open 4x6 game-table. Absolutely intense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabgoi Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 They did release a novel based on the incident aboard the space hulk as part of the 40k fiction. I have not read it yet, but I was going to order the book of the blood from the print on bemand which inclues that novel as one of many. it could have been what was included in the game, but since they compiled it in the book of the blood they basically elevated it to cannon. http://www.blacklibrary.com/Warhammer-4000...-Blood-the.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sube Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Thx guys The fact that it appears in a book doesnt automatically mean it's canon though - think for instance about the other BA novels, they seem to have pretty much been ignored by the fluff in the codex. Some of the BL books are aligned to the 40k canon, many other are not. But that's another discussion topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Just as an aside, the Celestial Lions were (allegedly ) killed off by the Inquisition after criticising an inquisitors viral bombing of a planet, the last of the Apothecaries were probably killed by a Vindicares bullet on Armageddon. I only add this because i love CL and there hardly ever mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 It's true that Celestial Lions are supposedly destroyed by the =][=, but it is the only example of the "doomed" chapter aside from Legion of the Damned (which is another story). Anyway, with 50 marines left, as the Space Hulk book tells us, it is highly probable that the Priests were slain too. I mean that if BA commander had thrown the whole chapter into battle, he'd most likely did the same with the Priests... Well, anyway, as I already said it sounds very dubious. The whole story screams of tactical failure, which is unexpected of such great Chapter as Blood Angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reldn Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Sorry for Threadnomancy, but, I was preparing to make a topic about this same thing after reading "Space Hulk" in "The Book of Blood". Because it struck me as highly improbable that they were reduced to a mere 50 marines, when other chapters have been doomed due to such losses. I mean, the Crimson Fists were reduced to about 100 brothers and even still didn't Pedro Kantor have to fight to keep his chapter from disbanding and convince everyone that they could rebuild? So, I guess we just chalk that up to Dramatic artistic license? Because I have to agree losing that many marines due to something like that just doesn't strike me as very Blood Angel-like. Though, if anyone has anymore fluff regarding such a crushing blow and coming back from extinction's door I'd like to know where I could find it please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 yes but crimson fists arnt a first fonding. ba couldnt allow themselves to disband or such because they are what unites many of their succesor chapters. if they went there could well be a civil war over baal to see who got the right to protect the primarch. also dontforget it takes less time to make a blood angel than any other chapters marines. its quite possible to make 1000 marines in 100 years fo us if we have the aspirants. and we do alot more research into our geneseed and stuff becaus eof the rage etc. and we have alot of apothecarys tat don count as battlefeild marines as they are serving the chapter by searching for a cure. im sure when times were hard theyd refill their old posts cause there would be no point trying to cure the chapter when it died out... so personally i have no problem with the whole only 50 marines thing. of course it does hurt the whole longest lived marines as only those 50 could be older than the space hulk insident... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 so personally i have no problem with the whole only 50 marines thing. of course it does hurt the whole longest lived marines as only those 50 could be older than the space hulk insident...Not really though. Because when the BA legion was broken into chapters you would have 10,000 Blood Angels but with 9000 of them wearing new badges on their armor. And then after the space hulk indecent, the BA chapter re-recruited from the successor chapters to rebuild its strength. It's very likely that some marines where BAs then went over to the Flesh Tearers and then back to the BAs. Since they were all in the BA legion it's not that big of a stretch to think there could be a big number of long lived blood angels in the current chapter. The whole story is ridiculous though :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I've been trying to find the reference in my Book of Blood, I haven't read that story in a while (can someone give me either a page number or which 'Time stamp' it's in?) Is there any wiggle room in the quote? does it talk about "Casualties" or "Fatalities" as I could see a large number of Marines being taken out of action and needing weeks/months to recover as a more plausible outcome without either screwing up the time line of the Chapter or simply disregarding the reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 If the writer of space hulk says that we were reduced to 50 marines then he doesn't know our chapter very well, there is no way in my opinion this could have happened, is he dissin' our crew our something? I'm calling shenanigans!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reldn Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 yes but crimson fists arnt a first fonding. ba couldnt allow themselves to disband or such because they are what unites many of their succesor chapters. Yes, I know that the Crimson Fists aren't a first founding chapter like the Blood Angels so they would have to fight more to keep their chapter. (I probably should've put that into my post somewhere.) But still, being slaughtered down to just 50 marines would practically be a death sentence to any chapter, be they first-founding or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Yorei Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 it was 50 of the company. if you read a lot of the fluff, you realize that 50 men out of 100 dying is really a HUGE number for space marines. 50% casualty rate is high for any army but for space marines it is extremely rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 SHINANIGANS... Dante would have never sent us to the slaughter and tbh if we had of been sent it would have been the genestealers that would have been slaughtered. I'm not buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Yeah it is total nonsense. Apparently, Dante was off on vacation at the time and some other captain guy (him name escapes me at the moment) lead the assault into the hulk. This captain was killed in the hulk along with the rest and apparently Dante came back from spring break to 50 guys left in his whole chapter? Yeah right. It does say that it was only 50 left in the chapter, not a company. I would have imagined that some marines where maimed but pulled out of the hulk, and this would really explain why BAs have SO many dreadnoughts, but the authors haven't been able to connect those dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 but was dante ven chapter master back n the first spacehulk. and te 50 vets was the second spacehulk.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 but was dante ven chapter master back n the first spacehulk. and te 50 vets was the second spacehulk.... I would imagine so as he's been around for like 1010 years atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 yes but was the first space hulk incident not more than 1000 yeas ago. i thought the chapter master mentioned at the time was mentioned in the story? think he stayed in the ba vesile then when he realised the mistake took the remainder of the chapter into the hulk but was cut down or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 I haven't read my space hulk stuff in a year or so...but IIRC, in the story, Dante is chapter master at the time and a captain leads the chapter to doom while Dante was off playing footsie with the necrons or something. (I don't think they actually say what was so important that Dante couldn't be bothered by a giant space hulk in his homeworld's sector, just that it wasn't him leading the assault.) I have previously gone and verified that it does indeed explicitly say that only 50 marines of the entire BA chapter survived though. All this talk makes me want to get out my Space Hulk and play a couple games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 commander sangallo...the chapter responded in full... of the entire chapter only 50 space marines remained...(scouts?) and the year was 996 m40, and we are at what? 999m41? so i would guess that may have been when dante took over. of course then we go into the whole how long dante has been alive/chaptermaster thing again... to which there does not appear to be any answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 First of all, the Crimson Fists ain't a first founding, but a second founding is darn close to a first ain't it? The Crimson fists were Imperial Fists that really thought that this codex idea was great. So in my eyes they are as respected as the IF themselves. Then over to Dante again, he was Chapter Master when Lysander disappeared into the warp. That was in the latter years of M40. Our codex says that even Lysander can't remember a time when Dante wasn't Chapter Master, so he should have been in command at the time of the space hulk. 50 surviving marines out of 1000 is not a probable outcome. I don't believe that the ones that wrote the SH fluff understands the WH40k fluff, maybe they thought of Blood Angels as a company? If Dante sent 950 marines to their deaths in a space hulk instead of blowing it to pieces with his fleet, I really don't see his tactical and strategic talent. He should have been shot at sight. We can rebuild our strength faster than many other chapters, and we could probably 'recruit' some reinforcements from other chapters, but this fluff fails at the strategic part of it. How many times have the whole chapter been at the same place at the same time? Most of the time we are spread all over the universe. And IF the whole chapter were to be united, how probable is it that they would all embark on a single space hulk? And IF they now did this very improbable thing, whats the odds that they would just continue to embark and assault after 200 marines laid dead? Maybe if they all were DC, but in that case we would have won easily :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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