Attack bikes!

[knife&fork]

Everyone and their servo skull is using MM attack bikes, but what about HB attack bikes and regular bike squadrons? I know they are not considered part of a tournament winning list, but some of us happen to like the models and want to use them.

 

 

Let's start with HB attack bikes. Heavy bolters may be pretty rubbish against MEQ infantry, but against softer targets they can be pretty effective en masse. I happen to play against Orks and Guard a lot, so this is relevant to my interests. All in all I think HB bikes are a pretty good deal for a fast and highly maneuverable 2W HB platform. As a bonus you can actually use the TL bolter against the same type of targets as your big gun, unlike the MM version. For a full squad that's quite a bit of firepower as you get closer.

 

36" 9 S5 AP4

24" 9 S5 AP4, 3 TL S4 AP5

12" 9 S5 AP4, 6 TL S4 AP5 (ouch)

 

 

Fortunately we also have a few different characters with bikes as wargear. A chaplain or reclusiarch could turn this into a pretty nasty close combat experience for your opponent considering all the firepower you can deliver before the charge. I'm not too crazy about getting those bikes into CC though, harassing fire seems like a better use for them. If we skip the captain for now that leaves us with the sang priest and librarian.

 

The priest gives them FNP which is a pretty big deal as if forces your opponent to commit a lot more firepower to deal with them. Orks in particular will probably struggle as they lack good, high strength, long range fire. On the other hand he lacks useful ranged upgrades and being a 1 W model you can't really use him for wound allocation.

 

The librarian have some interesting uses such as providing cover saves without having to move flat out, and you get a highly mobile hood that can easily sneak inside an enemy pyskers comfort zone. Unfortunately fear is the only shooting attack with any range to speak of, though it works quite well with a lot of the same targets as the bike mounted weapons.

 

As for the regular bikes I think you should take advantage of relentless and go plasma heavy with a power fist on the sarge and a priest with a power weapon. If you add one attack bike MM is probably the way to go as you want to be able to pop a tank or transport and will be closing the distance anyway.

[Gv0zD]

36" 9 S5 AP4

24" 9 S5 AP4, 3 TL S4 AP5

12" 9 S5 AP4, 6 TL S4 AP5 (ouch)

 

It looks menacing to light infantry, but with it you limit your flexibility. Yes, you have fast anti-personnel unit, but what about tanks? The bikes are tough, but if they face tank, they will probably die without being able to hurt it.

 

Anyway, the use of anti-personnel bikes depends on the certain list. If you have Dakka Baals, or plenty of Assault Marines, you don't need another anti-infantry unit. Multi-Melta bikes offer fast anti-tank capabilities, so that you're able to hunt any tank and hurt it pretty much. Adding HB bike to a squad two melta-bikes is a sound idea.

 

Regarding taking biker ICs. IMHO this will also limit your flexibility. Reclusiarch is better be used with CC specialists, especially DC, while Libby should be able to join any squad to buff it up.

[Julius Firefocht]

I am a supporter of Blood Angel regular bike squadrons as well. T4/5 with FNP on a fast unit with relentless sounds pretty useful to me.

[the jeske]

12" 9 S5 AP4, 6 TL S4 AP5 (ouch)

and then you have hit and wound and horde will have cover meq will have +3 sv and you kill 3-4 models a turn [or 2-3 meq] . costs too much to do that . speeders with RL will kill the same number of horde and will do anti tank at the same time and in both case you will have problems with hiding both [unlike with 2 man Attack bike squads].

then comes another thing . BAs dont realy need anti horde their RAS , Baals and/or speeders deal with those well , what they do need is anti tank and MM attack bikes do give that.

[knife&fork]

It looks menacing to light infantry, but with it you limit your flexibility. Yes, you have fast anti-personnel unit, but what about tanks? The bikes are tough, but if they face tank, they will probably die without being able to hurt it.

 

I think it's better to keep them focused in either role. In the case of the HB bikes they have enough shots to be a threat, but too fast to catch for the things they are good at hunting, medium and light infantry. If the opponent wants to throw a lot of heavy firepower their way it suits me just fine. Less low AP hitting my terminators, tanks, dreads and assault squads. It's just three bikes, not a 700 point deathstar unit that's supposed to deal with everything on the board.

 

You know what causes me the most grief when I play against Imperial guard? It's not the melta vets, leman russ variants or tooled up command squads, it's the sentinels. They act like speed bumps and messes with my target priorities. They are not that dangerous, but then again you can't really ignore them either because then you'll have las and autocannon fire hitting your side armor on turn two. Focus on them too much and you'll be caught flatfooted right in front of the gunline.

 

and then you have hit and wound and horde will have cover meq will have +3 sv and you kill 3-4 models a turn [or 2-3 meq] . costs too much to do that . speeders with RL will kill the same number of horde and will do anti tank at the same time and in both case you will have problems with hiding both [unlike with 2 man Attack bike squads].

then comes another thing . BAs dont realy need anti horde their RAS , Baals and/or speeders deal with those well , what they do need is anti tank and MM attack bikes do give that.

 

Against MEQ the bikes by themselves are not likely to cause a lot of damage, as I already stated. But 120 for a full squad is not that much and certainly more durable than the single typhoon speeder for 90 points. I honestly struggle more with anti horde than anti tank. There's so many places to take meltas, lascannons, blood strike missiles, inferno pistols, plasma, melta bombs, TL assault cannons, p fists, hammers or even HK missiles. Having my expensive units tarpitted (or even overwhelmed) by a throw away unit is a lot more common.

 

If you mostly play against MEQ then feel free to make a pass on the HB attack bikes, but against everything that doesn't have a 3+ save they can be a useful tool.

[the jeske]

Having my expensive units tarpitted (or even overwhelmed) by a throw away unit is a lot more common.

dont use expensive death star units then or if you do use such that cant be tar pited because they lets say put 11+wound on a horde class unit.

 

Right now we have 2 armies that can try to do horde . nids and orks. the green tide army isnt realy viable , but even the most basic BA troops do huge dmg[your faster then orks both in rhino and jump packs] and without the wagghhh charge the ork struggle to hurt meq with most units.

 

the nids have a different problem . they dont have frags so charging a 10 man RAS in cover [without a priest] with a 20 unit of guants means they offten lose hth . they have units set ups like their death star that can be a problem to deal in hth , but first of all they cost a lot , second they can be avoided and third MM attack bikes help against those more .

[knife&fork]

Having my expensive units tarpitted (or even overwhelmed) by a throw away unit is a lot more common.

dont use expensive death star units then or if you do use such that cant be tar pited because they lets say put 11+wound on a horde class unit.

 

This is exactly one of the problems HB attack bikes could help with. Remove that screening or tarpit unit early so your hard hitters can go for the gold.

 

For those of you that has used bikes before, did you ever use them to screen your main force? They have the benefit of being able to provide cover save to the units behind them while having a cover save themselves for going fast. Not sure if they are actually tough enough for the job though. On the other hand rhinos aren't exactly monoliths and I've used them successfully in the same role.

[Gv0zD]

You may sacrifice Rhino but it may serve as a stationary cover. Bikes, well, once you lose them they are gone.

In my opinion, bikes are better suited for hunting nasty tanks, while main forces engage with infantry, light armor etc.

If you find anti-infantry bikes useful, go for it. Afterall it is a question of personal tactics and preferences.

[knife&fork]

You may sacrifice Rhino but it may serve as a stationary cover. Bikes, well, once you lose them they are gone.

 

indeed, but one thing the bikes have going for them is predictability. A rhino that gets taken out may or may not blow up. The wreck might block LOS and movement, but that can work to both your and the opponents advantage. The bikes will always behave in the same way, usually you'll even get to pick which one(s) to remove, very useful for something you use a partial LOS-blocker.

[Gv0zD]

Rhino costs 50 pts, 15 if dedcated to RAS. Attack bike costs 40 pts. Once it's lost it's gone (I start to repeat myself :) ). HBAB (heavy bolter attack bike) can only deal with infantry. Rhino has stormbolter and may take another one or hunter-killer. Once Rhino's gone there's a chance of explosion, but if it is wrecked you end up with up to 10 marines with above the average close combat abilities (if you're so concerned with hordes take flamer). So in the end Rhino is more effective and cheaper.

 

Also, when your Rhino is taking damage, your MMAB can sneak and hit tanks. While HBAB would only kill a few infantrymen and then die.

 

Again, that's my opinoin on the topic, based on my experience and tactics, so I'm not trying to prevent people employ the discussed tactics.

 

And lastly, why would you want to block los wheh BA play mostly offensively? If you go defensive route, you'd take more fire support, and Attack Bikes would among the first thing to drop.

 

-edit-

I took Rhino as example. We also have Razors, which cost 5pts more and have the said HB, or even more threatening Flamer.

[knife&fork]

Rhino costs 50 pts, 15 if dedcated to RAS. Attack bike costs 40 pts. Once it's lost it's gone (I start to repeat myself :) ). HBAB (heavy bolter attack bike) can only deal with infantry. Rhino has stormbolter and may take another one or hunter-killer. Once Rhino's gone there's a chance of explosion, but if it is wrecked you end up with 5-6 marines with above the average close combat abilities (if you're so concerned with hordes take flamer). So in the end Rhino is more effective and cheaper.

 

Also, when your Rhino is taking damage, your MMAB can sneak and hit tanks. While HBAB would only kill a few infantrymen and then die.

 

Again, that's my opinoin on the topic, based on my experience and tactics, so I'm not trying to prevent people employ the discussed tactics.

 

And lastly, why would you want to block los wheh BA play mostly offensively? If you go defensive route, you'd take more fire support, and Attack Bikes would among the first thing to drop.

 

To get a rhino you have to buy something else first. So you'll either have a squad that depends on it for mobility or you buy something more stationary like a dev squad and then you have the option of using it as mobile cover/transport for someone else.

 

And when the bikes are taking hits something else is free to do damage, it's kind of the same thing. MMAB or HBAB is a question of what else you have in your force as they both have obvious drawbacks.

 

Playing offensively is exactly why a highly mobile screening unit makes sense. Taking the fight to the enemy usually includes incoming fire, right? Marines don't have grots, gaunts or white shields. I guess scout bikes would be the least expensive option, but they lack a lot of the punch regular bikes have, upgrading to grenade launchers is costly.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Rhino costs 50 pts, 15 if dedcated to RAS. Attack bike costs 40 pts. Once it's lost it's gone (I start to repeat myself ;) ). HBAB (heavy bolter attack bike) can only deal with infantry. Rhino has stormbolter and may take another one or hunter-killer. Once Rhino's gone there's a chance of explosion, but if it is wrecked you end up with up to 10 marines with above the average close combat abilities (if you're so concerned with hordes take flamer). So in the end Rhino is more effective and cheaper.

 

Wait sorry did you just compare a 10 man squad in a rhino to 2 40pt attack bikes? Kind of two different classes isnt it? That 10 man unit in Rhino probably cost you what? ~240pts? So really you're looking at 6 HB attack bikes Vs. 10 Guys and a rhino. Kind of a different weight class now aint it? :)

[Gv0zD]

I get your point, but to me turning 120-150 pts unit into a screen isn't a sound idea. Why not use RAS with libby's shield instead. There are ten of them, not three, and they are also mobile due to jumppacks. My point is it's better to use armored transport as, well, armor. It is also a troop delivery system, not suicidal bikers. Yes, you have to take troops to unlock transport, but you have to take them anyway, at least two of them :)

 

@ BOB: I was talking about rhino itself. Imho it's not correct to compare non-troop units with the other non-troops. We have to take troops anyway, either we go biking or not ;) So speaking of bikes' utility we assume one already has twoo troops and one HQ. Also, I was considering unit's roles firstly, and only then - their costs.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

I get your point, but to me turning 120-150 pts unit into a screen isn't a sound idea. Why not use RAS with libby's shield instead. There are ten of them, not three, and they are also mobile due to jumppacks. My point is it's better to use armored transport as, well, armor. It is also a troop delivery system, not suicidal bikers. Yes, you have to take troops to unlock transport, but you have to take them anyway, at least two of them :P

 

@ BOB: I was talking about rhino itself. Imho it's not correct to compare non-troop units with the other non-troops. We have to take troops anyway, either we go biking or not :ermm: So speaking of bikes' utility we assume one already has twoo troops and one HQ. Also, I was considering unit's roles firstly, and only then - their costs.

 

Its a flawed assumption though because you're not always going to use something that would make good use of a rhino.

 

for example:

Scouts

RAS with Jump Packs

Tactical Marines geared to shoot/Hold an objective at home

Tactical Marines geared to drop pod in.

 

 

And its in armies like a RAS heavy force that foot slogs where the bikers would be most handy providing things like long distance speed and more shootyness.

 

 

You're 10 guys in Rhino is 10 wnds and an armour 11 vehicle.

The 6 Bikes you could get in exchange are 12 wounds at higher toughness, and a turbo boosting coversave. They can also move up to 24 inches in a turn and provide more fire power at all ranges.

 

They arent a no brain swap out but they arent really bad either. Similar to the Whirlwind wall Idea. Sometimes its just flat better to get more of something light then one or two more heavily armoured targets. Its why Land Raiders were terrible.

[Gv0zD]

Again, that's my opinion on the topic, based on my experience and tactics, so I'm not trying to prevent people employ the discussed tactics.

Quoting myself to motivate my position.

 

My point was that the tactics proposed by OP requires certain tailoring of a list, while MMAB as they are commonly used or Rhinos/Razors are just logical expansions to mostly used army structure. 6 men Attack Bike sqaudrons heavily will limit me in taking Baals or Vanguard Vets or Land Speeders, thar are able to fullfill several roles in my list rather than anti-infantry bikes.

 

Anyway I'd like to see how will this theory perform.

[d503]

3 man bike squad, MM attack bike, power weapon.

 

this was always my setup, works well.

[knife&fork]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How do you use them and what does the rest of force look like?

 

Again, that's my opinion on the topic, based on my experience and tactics, so I'm not trying to prevent people employ the discussed tactics.

Quoting myself to motivate my position.

 

My point was that the tactics proposed by OP requires certain tailoring of a list, while MMAB as they are commonly used or Rhinos/Razors are just logical expansions to mostly used army structure. 6 men Attack Bike sqaudrons heavily will limit me in taking Baals or Vanguard Vets or Land Speeders, thar are able to fullfill several roles in my list rather than anti-infantry bikes.

 

Anyway I'd like to see how will this theory perform.

 

Just want to say that the idea of screening with bikes (any bikes) and the 3* HBAB with attached character are two different tactics, even if they could overlap. The first is merely moving cover and making it harder for the enemy to choose targets. MMAB would probably be better for this unless you have lots of ranged firepower in the back. The later is a harassing fire unit that mainly targets exposed infantry and tar pit units.

 

I can see the problem with taking such a small unit if you already have lots of things competing for your FA slots, specially on higher point level. I usually don't use a lot of FA and mostly play sub 2k games.

[d503]

Often I use them as a standard harassing unit on the enemies off flank. It's an effective unit against light troops, as they have 8 bolt gun shots then a power weapon, and the multimelta on the attack bike can be used to pop stray vehicles.

 

I never put a power fist in these squads as they don't get stuck in combat with vehicles, so they can just use the multimelta and they are easily fast enough to avoid dreadnoughts. The power weapon is much better IMO.

 

At 155 points for the squad it's about right for a small interference or harassment squad that takes some serious killing thanks to the toughness 5 and manoeuvrability of bikes.

[knife&fork]

Often I use them as a standard harassing unit on the enemies off flank. It's an effective unit against light troops, as they have 8 bolt gun shots then a power weapon, and the multimelta on the attack bike can be used to pop stray vehicles.

 

I never put a power fist in these squads as they don't get stuck in combat with vehicles, so they can just use the multimelta and they are easily fast enough to avoid dreadnoughts. The power weapon is much better IMO.

 

At 155 points for the squad it's about right for a small interference or harassment squad that takes some serious killing thanks to the toughness 5 and manoeuvrability of bikes.

 

Would you consider putting a plasmagun in there to give them a bit more bite, or is it too risky without FNP?

[Gv0zD]

@ d503: how does the rest of your army look like? And how did this bike squad performed agsinst MEQs, hordes?

 

I assume it will work well when you have tanks/transports that recieve most fire, so the bikes can move freely.

[Brother Kovash]

I used a squad of 3 HBAB in my old vanilla SM army, and they do work well against horde armies. It seems like most people here only think of them as tank killers with MM, and that's fine because that tactic works well also. But if you find yourself with 120+ points to spare and already have the models with you, put them along the edges and let them race around the field.

[knife&fork]

I used a squad of 3 HBAB in my old vanilla SM army, and they do work well against horde armies. It seems like most people here only think of them as tank killers with MM, and that's fine because that tactic works well also. But if you find yourself with 120+ points to spare and already have the models with you, put them along the edges and let them race around the field.

 

Based on how they performed, would you say spending 85 points to give them FNP, furious charge and a few more shots would be worth it? Or 135 for a physic hood, force weapon, 5+ cover save psychic power and the Fear (24" auto hit, -2 ld break test) psychic shooting power?

[d503]

I never put a plasmagun on bike squads, as if the gun misfires it doesn't take into account their T5. A meltagun would be better, but then the beauty of these guys is the low cost. I'm a guard player at heart so I have a violent dislike of upgrades when more meat will do fine instead.

 

One configuration I use my army in with vanilla marines is this:

Khan with command squad on bikes. Company champion and PF veteran.

3 man bike squad, power weapon, multimelta attack bike

3 man bike squad, power weapon, multimelta attack bike

2 tac squads in Rhinos

 

varying other stuff depending on opponent and points.

They always perform admirably in this list, as opponents are always trying hard to combat Khan, and the synergy with the objective seizing tacs and target of opportunity hunting bike squads is nice.

 

In blood angel lists I often use them with 2 baal predators. The Baals use thier scout move to move 18" up the field, then settle into moving 6" per turn firing all their weapons at enemy troops choices, while the bike squad turboboosts up on turn one (3++ behind 2 baals makes them a low priority target, lol) and charges a (usually half-ruined) unit or tank on turn 2 to finish it off.

 

This is while a landraider redeemer with a RAS+hero and 2 rhinos full of tacticals make thier way up the other flank usually.

 

Best thing about this configuration is that if you get 2 ravenwing box sets you get:

6 man command squad with hero included(kitbash)

3 bikes and a MM attack bike

3 bikes and a MM attack bike

2 landspeeders - probably one of the best 'gap filler' units in 40k. At home in any list.