Defensive Wolf vs. Offensive Wolf

[maverik_girl]

I honestly hope you guys aren't getting sick and tired of my rookie questions. I'm learning so much in these past few days, and you guys are incredibly skilled and educated in the game, and Space Wolf army. But I was wondering the following:

 

What are the benefits of being a defensive wolf, and an offensive wolf?

What are the disadvantages of being a defensive wolf, and an offensive wolf?

 

Does the game go allot quickly if your more of an aggressive/offensive player?

and which wolf are you between the two? for some reason, I've found myself to be a defensive wolf. I just don't know if that is a good thing yet :)

 

I just want to thank everyone for all their help and comments from my previous threads. You guys rock! and I hope to make you all proud as a member of the Fang.

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

I'm very much in the offensive category. Defensive is what most new players start with because it can be quite daunting to make a move and see what your opponent does as opposed to reacting to your opponent's moves. The problem with defensive is that you're forever stuck reacting to what your opponent does, seeing as you're just defending against whatever they try to do against you.

 

And if you just wait and see what's going to happen, you may find yourself in a lot of trouble because you didn't account for something you didn't know your opponent could do. For example and mechanized eldar player (which is my other army) might push towards one part of the battlefield just long enough for you to react and send some troops there, and then suddenly redeplou 36" to have a large part of his army hit the three packs of long fangs you left behind while the rest of your army tried to counter whatever you thought your opponent was up to.

 

If you just react to your opponent, you basically let him play out his battle plan (and if it's a good one, you'll find yourself in the deep end very quickly because most battle plans when followed through result in the victory of whoever made said battle plan). The only thing that'll mess with whatever your opponent's plan is, are going to be the dice. If you give your opponent something to think about by actively maneouvering to threaten his troops you ensure his plan won't work out the way he thought it would.

 

What tends to happen when you play defensively is that either you win very quickly or you lose very quickly, depending on how much the dice mess with your opponent's plan (at least that's what I've experienced so far). Imperial Guard gunlines are the epitomy of this - they just sit there and hope they can detect and shoot down any emerging threats. Usually they can't, and end up being annihilated by a more mobile opponent with some experience.

[Darkseer]

Space Wolves are a Counter-Offensive army.

 

They defend by taking offensive action.

So you are constantly reacting to your opponent, but not in a 'sit and shoot' manner.

Often you'll advance instead and be more aggressive in a close range capacity.

 

That's my personal experience anyway.

 

Space Wolves aren't great for an outright attack, because they don't have any really powerful units (like Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield Terminators).

Space Wolves also aren't great for an outright 'sit and shoot' defence, because they don't have enough heavy weapons (or lascannons) compared to more Defensive armies.

 

So their playing ground is the Mid Field.

They have to combine elements of both in a reactionary, countering strategy in order to defeat an enemy.

 

I hope that helps. Unfortunately getting the balance right comes from experience in playing the game -a lot.

[Slipp]

I guess it really depends on your perspective. If your line of thinking is similar to sigmunds then he is correct. However my definition of being defensive, is using my range to whittle down the opponent, and trying to stay inside the 12 inch rapid fire for as long as possible. Because of counter attack we can receive charges very well, so in my opinion it's better to stay in range of your heavy weapons, and concentrate fire against a squad, so they become whittled down. Then when you get charged you outnumber him, and still receive the charge bonus you would have gotten if you charged him. Having said that things like furious charge, blood claws, and deamon weapons can make you have a bad day at i5, so you need to weigh your options. As wolves we have the duality built into our lists to allow us to make split decisions on the battle field. Sometimes you will be better off to take that charge. As a general rule though I find wolves are a much more defensive ( reactive) army. Being defensive does not allways mean you wait for their action, you can still apply pressure by positioning your guys to counter the opponents likley moves. We are not overly mobile though and that is our weakness, so we have to allways keep the backfield in mind when mounting our offensives.

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

Space Wolves aren't great for an outright attack, because they don't have any really powerful units (like Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield Terminators).

Space Wolves also aren't great for an outright 'sit and shoot' defence, because they don't have enough heavy weapons (or lascannons) compared to more Defensive armies.

 

I'd heartily disagree with both those statements. We do have TH/S terminators. But better than that - we got something no other (standard) marine codex has - wolf claw/storm shield terminators. And we have characters with demon prince stats, thunderwolf cavalry and get assault marines as troops (read: grey hunters). A squad of wolf claw/storm shield terminators led by ragnar is one of the most dangerous units out there. They beat the hell out of honor guard for sure. We can do offensive just as well as any other marine codex, with the exception of blood angels perhaps, but they're nowhere near as flexible.

 

The other thing is that we can get a hell of a lot of firepower out that is far more accurate than imperial guard - 3 full packs of long fangs with missile launchers and attached wolf guard with cyclone, around about 4 to 6 las/plas razorbacks, rune priests with living lightning and jaws, and grey hunters to hold off whatever gets through that much fire power. That gun line is a hell of a lot more impressive than an imperial guard one (unless the guard one spams leman russes - as far as such things go).

 

So their playing ground is the Mid Field.

 

With that I agree. We can take the midfield and sit there - basically we're aggressive until we hold enough objectives to win, and then dare the opponent to come get some if they're so tough. But at the same time we can go all out and annihilate the enemy (and space wolves are one of the few armies that have a very realistic chance of wiping the opponent clean off the board - other armies rarely do that, but if played right, wolves can.).

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Space Wolves are a Counter-Offensive army.

 

I agree with what you are saying, quite a bit :P

 

Also, Wolves do have the benefit of being able to play as whatever the foe is not, too.

 

If playing Tau, all the Wolves are very strong against them in mêlée. But with Ultramarines, trying to beat them down with Tacticals is like trying to slap them to death.

 

Against rushing Orks, Wolves have enough shooting to just blaze away. Then the thinned out Ork rush is facing the same number of Marines....

 

I'd heartily disagree with both those statements. We do have TH/S terminators. But better than that - we got something no other (standard) marine codex has - wolf claw/storm shield terminators. And we have characters with demon prince stats, thunderwolf cavalry and get assault marines as troops (read: grey hunters). A squad of wolf claw/storm shield terminators led by ragnar is one of the most dangerous units out there. They beat the hell out of honor guard for sure. We can do offensive just as well as any other marine codex, with the exception of blood angels perhaps, but they're nowhere near as flexible.

 

The other thing is that we can get a hell of a lot of firepower out that is far more accurate than imperial guard - 3 full packs of long fangs with missile launchers and attached wolf guard with cyclone, around about 4 to 6 las/plas razorbacks, rune priests with living lightning and jaws, and grey hunters to hold off whatever gets through that much fire power. That gun line is a hell of a lot more impressive than an imperial guard one (unless the guard one spams leman russes - as far as such things go).

 

So their playing ground is the Mid Field.

 

With that I agree. We can take the midfield and sit there - basically we're aggressive until we hold enough objectives to win, and then dare the opponent to come get some if they're so tough. But at the same time we can go all out and annihilate the enemy (and space wolves are one of the few armies that have a very realistic chance of wiping the opponent clean off the board - other armies rarely do that, but if played right, wolves can.).

 

Hopefully this won't come across as mean, but if what you are experiencing what you say, then it doesn't matter what I think anyway :P

 

You don't really have Hammernators. Technically sure, but at over 150% of what an Ultramarine would pay, in practise, not at all.

Similarly with the WC SS Terminator, the price is just too much for what you get.

When you do the maths, you will see what I mean. Those choices [basically anything that involves a TH or a SS] are just so expensive, and therefore bad bang-for-buck.

 

TWC and ThunderLords are delightful for sure. But in echo of what Darkseer is saying, even they are not a true killy unit. What makes them great is their speed, their stats and wound allocation, just as much as their actual in combat ability. They don't just blow away MEq like a unit of Templar Assault Terminators would.

They are fast, they are tough and they are pretty strong in assaults, but not great in assaults.

 

It is something of a misnomer that Assault Marines are good in mêlée. They are better than Tacs, sure. I run Crusaders [Assault Marines with re-rolls to hit] and whilst they mug Guard and Orks in combat, against Marines, it gets slow.

Units like Grey Hunters, Crusaders and Assault Marines are not true assault units [compare them with Hammernators or Templar Terminators or any other dedicated, elite assault unit] even though they can bully the bottom rung units. Being greater than Orks doesn't make them amazing.

 

Honour Guard are not a good unit. Sure, one of the guys on here uses them to great effect, but basically the role he gets them performing is bullying MEq.

Whilst Honour Guard are greater than GH or Crusaders or Assault Marines, they get whomped by those true assault units I mentioned.

So Ragnar and overpriced WG beating them down is not an overwhelming commendation, imo.

 

Also, Herohammer, outside of the ThunderLord, generally doesn't give you the bang your buck deserves.

For the cost of Ragnar, you get 8 [and a half....] WG with power weapons.

That is 24 attacks, or 32 on the charge. Which outdoes Ragnar by quite a bit, even once you get to wounds inflicted.

And that is eight wounds, versus three.

 

+++

 

On a positive note :D

 

Wolves do gunline very well. Though I am not sure a WG CML Terminator is a great deal, unless you have already maxed out your packs with ML Fangs.

You get two ML Fangs and all but a Grey hunter for his price. If you spent 5 pts over what he costs, you could buy those two ML Fangs and a standard WG, to catch stray bullets. Three wounds instead of one, although no 2+ save....

 

Vendettas, Hydras and Manticores are very ferocious though. I'm not sure I'd say Wolves can outshoot that....

 

Hopefully I have not come across as rude, even though I have disagreed with you a lot :ermm:

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

Hopefully this won't come across as mean, but if what you are experiencing what you say, then it doesn't matter what I think anyway

 

A few years ago I might have been quite offended at people disagreeing with me... but I wouldn't make a particularly good scientist if I got offended at people whose opinion differs from mine. I may get angry, if their opinion is clearly idiotic though... :P

 

I agree that SS/claw terminators are very expensive. Lately I've taken to fielding ones with just a claw and storm bolter. A wolf lord with shield and one terminator with shield and frost blade do the job quite nicely too.

 

Counter-offensive is actually the word I'd use too, after putting some thought into this. Although I do like to have a few units that can make surprising moves and force a decision on my opponent (i.e. swift claws with wolf lord).

 

On TWC In assaults... well, I'd say something that churns out 5 S6 attacks with frost blades on the charge is quite some assault unit. Sure, they're not the best assault unit in the game, but they're certainly up there in that place where very few others ever venture. Eldar harlequins used to be up there too, and incubi still are (again... just my opinion, my experience...).

 

Of course assault marines aren't the end-all be-all of assault units. But in the field that grey hunters usually play (facing down ork mobs, tactical marines and so forth in fights for objectives), they are one of the better units. They're too good at shooting to be excellent in combat, but for what they do, they're great (although I guess we all agree with that...).

 

Also, Herohammer, outside of the ThunderLord, generally doesn't give you the bang your buck deserves.

For the cost of Ragnar, you get 8 [and a half....] WG with power weapons.

That is 24 attacks, or 32 on the charge. Which outdoes Ragnar by quite a bit, even once you get to wounds inflicted.

And that is eight wounds, versus three.

 

I don't much like herohammer either (I've never used Ragnar, in actual fact. I was just thinking about what those wolf guard could do if he was with them), but being space wolves I kind of feel obliged to bring at least one horrifyingly expensive character to the field.

 

Where my vehement offensive style of play comes from is probably that I tend to face armies like Tau, guard and bog standard space marines, all of which are useless in combat when compared to space wolves, so getting into combat is my best bet. Once I thought about this, I realized that I actually did use this counter-offensive style more than anything against tyranids (and it worked supremely well) and orks.

 

Therefore I'm going to have to revise what I said (and feel foolish for a while...). It really depends on the situation whether offensive or defensive or a mixture of both is appropriate.

[littlbitz]

That's a tough question to answer, because it kind of depends upon the mission and the opponent in my opinion.

 

I both agree and disagree with some of the statements above, but it really comes down to gaining some experience with the army.

 

The way I view it, is that not many Space Wolf armies are purely offensive or defensive, but rather are broken into smaller "Battle groups"

 

Many Wolf Lords I see have their army split into a Back-field and Mid-field group. Your Back Field typically being their 2-3 Long Fang packs, and a Rune priest and their Mid-field group is their Rhino or Razorback mounted Grey Hunters with a Rune Priest.

This army is very good at what I think you would consider a "defensive" style of play. It is good at softening up the enemy at range, and then moving the Grey Hunters in to take objectives.

 

Other Wolf Lords have their army split into a Forward group and a Mid-field group. Your Forward units consisting of a Bike or Thunder Wolf Lord (or two) with some Swift Claw and/or Thunder Wolf Cavalry units, maybe some scouts. This can also be done with Drop Pods, but I don't see this as often anymore. The mid-field group is typically your Grey Hunter packs (I also use a Blood Claws pack, but this is also a rarity anymore)

This army is more of what I think you consider an "Offensive army" in that it is good at advancing forward early and either distracting the enemy or just destroying it with your Forward units while your Mid-field group moves forward to capture objectives early.

 

Both of these army types can be pressed into service to perform in a different role if need be, but they are designed with a play style in mind.

 

I play what you would call an offensive army, but against armies that are more offensive than mine, I will play more of a defensive game and use my "forward" elements as counter assault elements.

 

The real key for success on the Battle field is flexibility and being able to think on the fly.

[Kassill]

I agree with the Counter-Offensive army. That is how I like to run. The Wolves (at least my lists) have enough firepower to slow the enemy down, then get close and personal for the kill. Simple as that! For example, my standard lists revolve around 3x 10xman GH packs with Dual Plasma, Mark, Standar, and some sort of CC weapon (Fist or Pweapon) and 2x 6xman ML Long Fang Packs. Those 5 units right there can whittle are charging ork horde down to something of mere handfull of models. After that the GH's go in for the kill in CC. We arent great at shooting, we arent the best in CC (Although we love to brawl! ^_^ ) but we make the best of both worlds.

 

That's how I run my army anyways. :D

 

^Counter-Offensive Wolf

[DV8]

I think a better way to describe Space Wolves is "Aggressive-Defensive".

 

Aggressive in that you push your opponent, and force them to react to you. Defensive in that you force your opponent to make the hard choices of where to hit your lines, knowing that wherever they hit, they're smashing up against an anvil.

 

Space Wolves shouldn't just be reacting to their opponent; nobody should (regardless of the army they play), or at least, not entirely. A purely re-active player simply goes along with how his opponent dictates the battle, and relies entirely on expecting your opponent to play their hand and hoping you have a better one. On the other hand, a purely active player will be playing rather aggressively, but at the risk of overextending themselves and often finding out that their opponent is more than capable of reacting properly.

 

And that's what makes Space Wolves so great! We lack the aggressive "active" units like Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield Terminators (TH&SS, or Hammernators) and even Thunderlords and Thundercav aren't exactly the most efficient aggressive units (for sheer killing power), but by playing an aggressive defense, we either force our opponents to play their hands far too early, or second-guess their original plan(s) and play the wrong hands.

 

Thus a properly built and played Space Wolf army will force their opponent to react to them, and then are capable of reacting to that response in a way to pick apart the enemy (or worst case react in such a way as to take control and force their opponent on the backfoot).

 

 

DV8

[Decoy]

Contrary to DV8's quite valid and well-thought-out input, I find that I, personally, operate quite differently. I work in a "Passive Offensive"-style.

 

I, both on the tabletop and in real life, am reactionary. I operate best when given something to work with. With my Hunter Line (mostly Grey Hunters with Plasmas/Meltas), I'm perfectly content to slowly move forward, taking shots if they're given to me, before castling in the center of the board in a Rah-Jing Square, vehicles offering cover and concealment when necessary around the outside. In this way, I have moved forward, advanced towards the enemy army and attained a position of domination in the center of the board while blocking easy access to my troops by enemy assault formations. Storm Caller is vital in this instance, with the Rune Priest easily allowing my entire Square to receive a 5+ Cover save (read; Around 60 troops, at that point.) If MASSIVE incoming enemy fire is imminent against a particular squad, it's easy to Go To Ground with one or two squads, just to allow for a 3+ Cover dependent on point of origin of the firing position. During that same time, however, I'm able to see a fair bit of the board and fire on most of it, moving vehicles to allow for accurate fire from within the Square. In this way, I am "Offensive" in that I now dominate the tabletop with pretty much the entire board within range.

 

From here, however, the plan normally breaks down. The Square is generally my first move, but after that, like all plans, they rarely survive first contact with the enemy. The opposing player, forced to respond to my breakout and now domination of the central table with the entirety of my army, is pushed to either split up to access and fire on all points in my army through encirclement, or to push HARD with the majority of their army at one point of attack in my Square.

 

If they split their forces (Very, VERY rare), my Grey Hunter units are capable of picking them apart wholesale, with 24" range covering the whole table. Unless there's a Land Raider kicking around out there (which my Meltas or Lascannon Long Fangs are capable of dealing with), there's really nothing that the Square cannot handle. If Objectives are what the enemy are going for, I can sit back in the Square and deny them their efforts. If Kill Points are what the enemy is attempting, there's a good chance that I can deal more damage to them than they can do to me, as my own Vehicles offer me significant advantages in terms of Cover (never mind that more than a few of my vehicles are often R-backs or Predators, with the ability to take some damage and dish out some HARDCORE damage)

 

If the enemy focuses their attack on one point of the Square, my Square can react accordingly. If Sides 1 and 2 are coming under attack, it's easy to swing Sides 3 and 4 around in an encirclement maneuver to blast apart the flanks and van of the opposing army. If Sides 1 and 3 are under attack, Sides 2 and 4 can, variably, allow for complete annihilation of one flanking force at the expense of allowing the other side to martyr itself. When Sides 2, 4, and 1 (for example) are done mopping up the first flanking force, and Side 3 is dead on the enemy's turn, I now am allowed a 3:2 numerical advantage (on average.) This is only further exacerbated by the Square's unique ability to defend against Armies more assaulty than my own.

 

Take Blood Angels, for instance. I've never once lost to these glittery folk, because the Square allows me to defend my assaultable units with expendable vehicles. With a 4" screening force, there is no room for Blood Angels to deep strike into my ranks (Barring Heroic Intervention) or Jump Pack over the transports thanks to the vehicle proximity to my main lines, disallowing a charge. Moreover, if the enemy DOES waste a dual-charge to wipe out the transports (unlikely), they're now sitting point blank with twenty four Plasmagun shots, around 120 Bolter shots, and ten Plasma Cannons, and are nicely packed together, with no immediately available cover save; No amount of PC scatter really matters at that point. However, let's say the buggers manage to get me in combat. With every squad sporting at least one Terminator, supported by two Lone Wolves for MC/Dread/ICkilling, the Square is capable of counter-assaulting at a moment's notice. Even if two Death Company squads manage to make it into the Square unmolested, they're now facing down a potential counterassault by fifty angry Space Wolves. True, most of them won't be able to do a whole lot of damage, but it's all about special weapon positioning, people! :D

 

 

The thing I like about Wolves is that we can effectively do whatever we want and still pull some sort of win. Granted, if we're dumb and just assault anything, we're not likely to win, but we have the capability to do so if need be.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Where my vehement offensive style of play comes from is probably that I tend to face armies like Tau, guard and bog standard space marines, all of which are useless in combat when compared to space wolves, so getting into combat is my best bet. Once I thought about this, I realized that I actually did use this counter-offensive style more than anything against tyranids (and it worked supremely well) and orks.

 

Therefore I'm going to have to revise what I said (and feel foolish for a while...). It really depends on the situation whether offensive or defensive or a mixture of both is appropriate.

 

No need to feel foolish, brother. :D

You were speaking from experience, and what you experienced had truth in it. Humans often work better in community, as it allows us to cover one another. Iron sharpens iron, as they say.

If all you've had to do is reassess a viewpoint from being in community, you are doing better than me ;) and are growing from being here. Sounds like a good thing to me. ;)

[Grimtooth]

Labels are for canned food. My Wolves do everything.

[postal105]

@decoy what is a Rah-Jing Square?

[Emperors Immortals]

This is a great thread to read a blood, ive always wondered how SW managed to look normal(ish) yet be so extraordinarily good. Ive had to face ideas similar to "the square" of brother Decoys post with both my BA and Ultras, and its always horrendously homicidal to crack it.

 

For example, i dont take any devs in my BA, but i have plenty of melta, so the best bet is a sacrificial unit destroying one screening chassis (usually a rhino or pred) and alowing an opening that i can pour concentrated fire into.The problem is that i am now a target from within that square, and so i find i have to pressure another element of it in a similar way.Its all about limiting options for a counter move.

 

I have been so frustrated by that type of plan (only SW seem to be great at this tactic BTW) that ive tried Hammernators (which i never ever take) all DC lists, heavy mech with baal preds, all AssBack armies and even DoA with tank busting weapons and lots of plasma.The ordnance barrages of vindis were even of fairly limited use.

 

The only thign ive found to erliably crack it is a combo of plasma cannon dreads (and SR) and Dakka preds/baal preds, and thats not a given.

 

My most hated version of your castle tactic is the offset block, positioning near a board edge to force a reaction against a double wall of rhino chassis.

 

But its still all fun....:tu:

[Decoy]

@decoy what is a Rah-Jing Square?

 

The spelling may be off; I stole it from Max Brooks' "World War Z". A Rah-Jing Square is where a military formation lines up, shoulder to shoulder, intersect another squad at a right angle and essentially form a square. This allows them to fire in any direction outwards while avoiding being outflanked or attacked from unexpected quarter.

 

Vehicles lined up around the square are designed for maximum defense against incoming AP2-3 fire, giving the units inside the square a 4+ Cover. On my turn, it is easy to reposition any vehicles(if necessary) and fire to maximum effect on the enemy, having sustained minimal damage to my own troops. If -absolutely- necessary, I can also close the vehicles tightly around the infantry within, preventing them from running away (although this is rarely necessary with Wolves) and to completely block all direct enemy fire from hitting the troops within. However, in the meantime, the Predators/Razorbacks along the outside wall continue to pummel the enemy defenses, and the enemy troops are forced to eliminate the most obvious threats of vehicles (which tend to overlap, allowing them each an Obscured status, on top of the 5+ from Storm Caller), meaning shots are wasted on Vehicles instead of on the juicy troops who are shooting from within.

 

Long story short; The Rah-Jing Square forces the Opponent to deal with the threat that I -TELL- him to deal with, while maintaining freedom of motion and movement, as well as targeting choice, for myself. (Never mind it's damned handy to have your ENTIRE army have a 5+ Cover at the very least.) Moreover, it's always nice to have a range of 18"-20" that my ENTIRE 2500 POINT ARMY can fire on all at once. Very few other armies can say that as a general rule.

[Grimfoe]

I see the strength in Space Wolves being that they can design a force that can be offensive OR defensive, depending on the army they face.

 

Not two different forces, mind you, but one force that can do either. When the first wolf codex came out it was easy. They were nearly the best army in close combat and they were the best shooters. (BS 5 Long Fangs with Targeters on overwatch back then, but I digress)

 

It's more challenging now, but I think it can still be done and I'm attempting to tune my army to do just that. You need to have enough punch to take the offense when necessary, but enough "gun line" to stay back and fire until you're no longer outclassed in CC, when the situation dictates.

 

 

I guess, I try to seize the advantage as soon as it is there and become aggressive at that point. I'm truly aggressive from the get go only when I start with the advantage.

[agent407]

Offense followed by a counter attack is how I play my wolves. I use a logan wing hybrid with 3 drop pods with termies to take control of the board first turn. This tends to draw all of the attention and then I counter with long fangs, GH's in rhinos, swift claws and eventually the third drop pod. I will say that I have to be careful cause this doesn't work with every army. Its easy to get over extended so I really have to be careful where I drop so I can support my wolf guard, but its a lot of fun and frustrates my opponents cause they never know where I will be hitting them. I force them to make the hard choices then react to it.

[Hear da Lamentation]

What a great thread - thanks to Maverick-Girl for kicking it off. Some really good (and in depth) tactic discussions here. I particularly liked Decoy's "square" discussion. Not my type of army, but I loved it. I'd love to watch someone play that army like that.

 

This all got a but deep for a new player, and from a basic question, so to the OP I would say this :

 

As I was reading te thread I copied one of DV8's comments

 

I think a better way to describe Space Wolves is "Aggressive-Defensive".

 

Aggressive in that you push your opponent, and force them to react to you. Defensive in that you force your opponent to make the hard choices of where to hit your lines, knowing that wherever they hit, they're smashing up against an anvil.

 

As you can see from the posts, Wolves can be both offensive and defensive, but being solely either one is not a good idea. You need to be doing both - and as has been said, always being reactive is not a good idea. When I started playing, I too found myself to be defensive, because I needed to learn how the game worked. But once you have that, you need at least 2 units which are going to cause the enemy to react to YOU. Once they are bothered with something YOU are doing and have to react, this messes with their tactics and you can start dictating at least part of the fight.

 

I too am naturally defensive, but when playing the wolves I temper this with my watch-phrase .... "Be Bold". And be ready to do it quickly when the occasion demands.

[Decoy]

You know, reading the thread before mine, I too realized that this is a damned fine discussion overall.

 

What galls me is that I can't believe this hasn't ever really come up with such an in-depth analysis before now! I've been here since 04 and I can't really remember any discussion as indepth as this, except -maybe- when the new Dex came out. (Then again, my memory is incredibly awful, so... I could have had the same discussion twelve times over and forgotten it.)

 

Either way, thanks, Mavgirl, for bringing up a topic that might very well serve to advance every pup who wanders in here.