Henchmen

[Prototype]

I humbly hope that the B&C will permit discussion on these non-power armored army choices, because frankly I think restricting all talk on this forum to "pure Grey Knights" would gimp the discussions on this board now that there is no longer a "clearly non-power armored" option for the upcoming codex.

 

Anyway that aside, I was wondering what you all thought about the Crusaders/Deathcult Assassins. Based on what I'm reading they are pretty awesome, and troops with Corteaz. A 3++ power weapon-wielding IG trooper and a very killy Assassin seem to be a fairly tempting choice given that I've heard that stormbolters no longer "count as pistols" for the normal Grey Knights, resulting in them only having one attack each, and as a result, are not very killy.

 

I'm not saying go for pure Crusader/Deathcult squads, maybe a mix and match, perhaps with some say, Arcoflagellants in tournaments, but they seem to make a tempting alternative. WHat do you all think about them, and how do they stack compared to the Grey Knight troop choices?

[number6]

The B&C will allow discussion of any units legally allowed by the supported codexes. Codex: Grey Knights will be a supported codex, so all units from that codex may be discussed.

[Brom MKIV]

I would dare say dcas are now the killiest troops in the game, point for point that is. Crusaders are similar in survival to marines, better vs. ap3 and worse against non ap3 due to lower toughness.

Although at first glance a mixed unit of these henchmen seems very vulnerable to shooting, my testing has shown them to be similar to a unit of power armoured troops (in certain cases).

 

I am currently toying with several mixed units of dcas, crusaders and a few mg warriors. The warriors give us everyones gun of choice and take wounds after they have served their purpose. Something like this:

3 mg warriors, 5 dcas, 4 crusaders. I think the warriors are worth including due to the lack of melta in C:GKs and because they still eat bullets as well as dcas do. Thoughts? Still searching for the 'optimal build' for cc and shooty henchmen.

[Prototype]

BS 3 is, IMO, bad.

A Crusader is about 2x more killy than a normal tactical marine against a MEQ, which is pretty good, and is roughly just as effective as a tactical marine against a WS3 T3 5+ target. The only issue here is when you consider that many Space Marine armies (well, the Space Wolves and Blood Angels) have access to guys that have 2A base as troops (with their close combat weapons) then a Crusader is just as killy as one of them against MEQs, and only half as killy against softer targets. Coupled with the fact that they will die easier (T3, I3) means that they are actually not too great in combat. That said, clearly you'll send them against things with power weapons ideally in which case they are just awesomely survivable.

 

I was thinking of a 60-40 mix of Crusaders to Deathcults. For their fairly low price they become an elite-hunting/tarpit squad. The Crusaders are basically there to tank, if some of them do survive then thats just a bonus. The Deathcults, with their extremely vicious three attacks (four on the charge!) would be the main killy force. Having many wounds allocated would mean some of the Deathcults would probably die, so thats what the Crusaders are there for. I'm thinking of using a Rhino instead of a Chimera, simply for Fortitude to be honest.

[Stormshrug]

BS 3 is, IMO, bad

 

 

Are Warrior henchmen definitely BS3, then? That's a bit disappointing, given that IG Vets and Stormtroopers (presumably who these Henchmen were prior to being Henchmen) are BS 4.

 

On the other hand, I suppose that IG should have some advantages.

 

-Stormshrug

[Joasht]

Yeah BS 3 Meltaguns.......I find it hard to justify. But then again the army as a whole just lacks anti-armor so badly, unless you plan to play Space Apes with their Lascannon Digiweapons theres not many ways to shove in a lot of anti-armor.

 

As for the OP, I'm just going to spam Henchmen myself for a few games, then spam PAGKs, then go hybrid, and see what I like. Theres something endearing about having a big wall of silver super elite marines, but frankly I'm not utterly impressed by the Strike Team. They die like any Space Marine and cost more. Yes they kill slightly better, but frankly not that much better than say, Grey Hunters, unless the GKs get the charge, or get counterattack from the Grandmaster.

 

The Purifiers however, are awesome. Makes me happy to own the old metal GKs, because for 1 point I get a halberd and 1 extra attack :(

[Stormshrug]

Yeah BS 3 Meltaguns.......I find it hard to justify. But then again the army as a whole just lacks anti-armor so badly, unless you plan to play Space Apes with their Lascannon Digiweapons theres not many ways to shove in a lot of anti-armor.

 

I dunno, Rifleman Dreads with Psybolts seem like a pretty good option here, actually. It's certainly better anti-armor than GKs used to have, anyway.

 

-Stormshrug

[vulpenie1]

Battle Psykers have been overlooked?

 

for abit of support (maybe not full henchman army) 3 member battle psykers = 36" st6 ap3 large blast pain every turn 30 points lol

 

sounds severly underpriced :D

[Ashe Darke]

Battle Psykers have been overlooked?

 

for abit of support (maybe not full henchman army) 3 member battle psykers = 36" st6 ap3 large blast pain every turn 30 points lol

 

sounds severly underpriced :D

Until they perils and all die. A few is probably ok but a big unit I'm no so sure about.

[vulpenie1]

Battle Psykers have been overlooked?

 

for abit of support (maybe not full henchman army) 3 member battle psykers = 36" st6 ap3 large blast pain every turn 30 points lol

 

sounds severly underpriced :P

Until they perils and all die. A few is probably ok but a big unit I'm no so sure about.

 

 

Aye - but 30 points for such immense potential destruction is well worth them maybe getting perils - i mean just 3 of them could sweep most MEQ units from the board :ermm:

 

The amount of enemy points this group could rack up could be worth 10x the amount these 3 lowly psykers are worth?

[kiwitexansfan]

I'm plotting on having two groups of Psykers. 5 in each for some Str 7, AP 2 goodness.

 

Ahhhh, goodtimes.

[Ashe Darke]

Yeah 3 is good. I'd just hate to see a whole unit die when the perils. I've a PBS in my Guard army and I've had perils on the first turn. Not cool, even less cool if you don't have an Overseer!

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Unit of 6, strength 8, AP1, blast, BS 3, Ld 8 (the important part) and 60 points.

 

A reasonable chance of damaging armour too (or for another 20 points make them strength 10).

[Brom MKIV]

Do ANY of the henchmen happen to have frag grenades?

[Brom MKIV]

Sorry for the double post, wanted to see what everyone thought of my henchmen unit built to accompany coteaz:

2 jokaero

2 hvy bolter servitors

6 psykers

chimera, hvy bolter/multi-laser

205 pts

 

Basic idea is to sit on an objective and shoot. I have tried to take full advantage of the "ive been expecting you" rule and the 5 firing points of the chimera while remaining somewhat points efficient.

If the units transport is also allowed to shoot with this rule I can pour out 9 S5, 3 S6 anti infantry and 2 S9 ap2 plus a s8 ap1 lg blast. Thoughts?

 

My other idea was to go 4 jokaero, 7 psykers, chimera- 265 although for the increased cost it doesnt seem that much better. Im open to any ideas.

[Ashe Darke]

Do ANY of the henchmen happen to have frag grenades?

 

None of them do.

 

My other idea was to go 4 jokaero, 7 psykers, chimera- 265 although for the increased cost it doesnt seem that much better. Im open to any ideas.

 

It's very shooty, just let me know when that thing gets popped or the Psykers suffer a Perils. It's gonna be a very messy day.

[Eusebius Rex]

So do Henchmen count as a retinue for Inquisitors? The leaked pdf makes no mention of them doing so, but the Codex (saw it today) do mention them as a retinue, though it sounds fairly fluffy. I think it was at the top of the page in the army list itself, as it also explains that they don't count as FOC slots. Did I miss anything? I'd really like my 100pt inquisitors to not suck so much in close combat... but if they don' they don't.

 

Also, according to what I understand, you can take Henchmen as troop choices, but this doesn't mean you can't take them as non-FOC choices for Coteaz and/or another Inquisitor.

[Brom MKIV]

Sorry for the confusion, when I said retinue I just meant unit coteaz joins.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

They are not a retinue. They are just a squad.

[kiwitexansfan]

Also, according to what I understand, you can take Henchmen as troop choices, but this doesn't mean you can't take them as non-FOC choices for Coteaz and/or another Inquisitor.

 

There is all sorts of debate about this, some say a max of 6 as they all become troops, some say 8 as they can be troops and two no FOC choices for 2 inquisitors, some say as many as you like because they are troops which don't use the FOC and some say as many as you like but you need to take 2 Grey Knight squads to fill the 2 compulsary troop slots.

[Joasht]

They "are Troops choices", so I'd assume based on that wording, they are troops as usual; they count for the min 2/max 6, and are scoring.

 

That said, I'm very excited to actually try out a list of fourty Crusaders/Death Cults with a small sprinkling of Arcoflagellants myself. Even with four Rhinos for transportation they only run to ~800 points, leaving me with enough space for other things, even at 1500 points >:D