Resv Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Hello every one, I wanted to do a "Final Impression" post on the new codex in the Rumor Thread but that got closed down for some reason. So I thought I would just post it anyway. If you didn't see my posts in the thread, I did a series of Battle Reports using the brand new codex against many different armies over the course of an event held at my FLGS. We called it "Gray Knights on take all who dare!" and it was safe to say that Gray Knights were the kings of the weekend. I have played 6 games (including two unreported ones from late last night) and watched several others with the new dex so far. This doesn't make me any sort of expert on Codex: Gray Knights, but I think I can give a good overall opinion of the book. If you have any questions about the book I would be happy to answer as long as they don't involve complete unit stats or point costs. I don't want to get into trouble and I want to answer every question I can. Over all Impression Codex: Gray Knights radiates the feeling of an elite army. The fluff (however goofy it might be) really reinforces the idea that these guys are the A-Team/Delta Force/SAS of the 40k world. Even your most basic Gray Knight has equipment and abilities that would make any self respecting Tactical Marine grumble and kick the dirt. Every model of infantry has a Force Weapon and a player who is rolling hot can take out almost anything infantry, cavalry or monstrous creature in the game with a single hit. The problem is the codex isn't priced like an elite codex. In fact, the consensus at the game store was that parts of it were under costed. Most of it though is competitively priced but there are some options in the codex that are just cheap for what they can do. There is a bit of a trade off with the cost and that is survivability. When being shot at, the highest Gray Knight invulnerable save on any infantry is 5++ (this is excluding the Iron Halo which is only on HQ's) otherwise they sport regular 2+ and 3+ saves. It is not my intention to say that 2+ and 3+ are not great saves, it is just that Marines are the most popular army in the game and everyone has some sort of anti-MEQ strategy or includes low AP weapons in their list to handle them. Gray Knights will really have a hard time against low AP weapons and from the result of one particular game I watched, Imperial Guard can still take them down in droves. The last thing I wanted to mention in the Overall section of this post is how flexible the Gray Knights are. The Grand Strategy allows players to completely change the dynamic of their army at the start of every game. It is almost like playing a new army when ever you hit the table (that is if you get a good roll on the D3). Servo Skulls are one of my favorite pieces of equipment and allow the Gray Knights to almost occupy the mid-field of the game board before the game has even started. There are lots of little tricks like this tucked away in Codex: Gray Knights not only fun to play, but fun to play against. HQ Units I want to briefly touch on the HQs I tried out and the few that I watched in action over the weekend. I am really impressed with the HQ section as it really feels like the HQ you chose has a huge effect on the game rather than a powerhouse unit you take to break face. Grand Master: This guy is probably my favorite out of the bunch. He comes with a long list of war gear which can do all sorts of neat things. I think part of the fun with the Grand Master will be seeing how people customize him for different roles. He seems expensive when compared to other comparable Space Marine HQ units like the Chapter Master, but if you take that same Chapter Master and stick him in Terminator Armor there is only a 10 point difference. Along with the fun war gear (like Servo Skulls and Rad-Grenades, two must have items in my opinion) you get access to two fantastic abilities; The Grand Strategy and Psychic Communication. These powers are well worth the cost and are responsible for the flexibility that I mentioned above. When it comes to The Grand Strategy I think the most popular abilities to give D3 units will be Scout and Scoring, but I really enjoyed giving Counter Attack out too. The final word on this HQ choice has really yet to be written, but I think he stands head and shoulders above most of the HQ section, this includes all of the special characters as well. Librarian: I don't want to cause to much of a stir, but with a solid investment of points, the basic Librarian is one of the most potent Psykers in the game. Being able to buy up as many psychic powers as you want just makes him a Swiss Army Knife of abilities. He can cast 2 powers a turn with and can be upgraded to cast 3 powers a turn which puts him on par with all of the "Master Psykers" in 40k. Castellan Crowe I love Purifiers (which I will go on about in detail I'm sure) so using this guy shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Lets start with the big thing, he make Purifiers troops. This is awesome! Amazing! Outrageous even! Sadly, that is basically the only reason to take him. The issue is he doesn't have IC and any unit that assaults him is granted Furious Charge. I could care less about FC due as Halberd Purifiers can handle just about anything that gets tossed at them, but IC is a bit of a blow. In my game I moved him up behind my Rhinos and used him as a counter charge unit. I can safely say that his Brotherhood Champion abilities are very powerful along with his Rending of a 4+ and Cleansing Flame though. When it comes down to it though, he is going to walk his way across the board and be shot down in the process. He isn't that expensive which is an upside since it isn't that hard to take an additional HQ if you want. Inquisitor Coteaz It is hard to talk about this guy with out mentioning Henchmen, but I am trying to save that for the Troops section. It is also safe to say he will be the most popular Special Character in the entire Codex be. As an HQ though he is pretty good for his points. He isn't going to stand up to long in a knock down drag out fight but if you stick him in a Henchman unit filled with blast template weapons he is right at home with his "I've been expecting you..." power which allows his unit to fire upon and unit that arrives from reserves near him. The HQ units of Codex: Gray Knights are a bit of a mixed bag. The basic options are fantastic and add a lot to any army. The Special Characters on the other hand went unnoticed for most the weekend until it came time to try out a Henchman build. Points are going to be at a premium for any Gray Knights army and I would really caution anyone putting together lists out there to really think hard about taking two HQ units. These guys can eat up points fast and there are many other great units in the codex that you might find more useful. Elites Paladins These guys created a huge splash when the rumor about them first hit. In play testing though I think people started to see that they really aren't very scary. The extra wound does make them more survivable but when it comes down to it I really didn't see a huge improvement over regular Terminators. The Apothecary is a neat idea but in the end he is so expensive that you could almost take two additional terminators for the upgrade price alone. I really wish they had more options that regular Terminators didn't. Vindicare Assassin I really want to try out all of the assassins but I couldn't break away from taking this guy in almost every game. His abilities really compliment the Gray Knights by being able to selectively takeout units that might pose a threat to the army. being able to take out invulnerable saves was probably the most useful of his abilities though. This allowed me to one shot a TWC Wolf Lord with a force weapon hit. However, don't expect him to last for very long. Once he starts to kill off sergeants expect him to be the most popular unit on the board. Purifiers If you have read my battle reports you probably know that I love Purifiers. These guys don't cost very much more than basic Gray Knights and with a Halberd upgrade (which they should always have some upgrade on them) the are all of 1 more point than a Gray Knight with a Halberd upgrade. For that price you get more attacks, fearless, access to more special weapons, and most importantly Cleansing Flame. You want to get your Purifiers right into the thick of battle and if at all possible in assault. Cleansing flame is like hitting an enemy unit with a big template right at the start of the assault phase and every wound you cause counts towards combat resolution. The real downside to them is that they are almost too good at close combat and will be left out in the open. I really like these guys and are just amazed at how well they can handle just about almost anything. So that is if for part one! Part two will I will hit up the other units in the FOC I have had a change to play with. Umm, yeah. Not the most descriptive thing ever, so if you have any questions please ask. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I think the best moments however were making and entire unit of Daemon Hammer Terminators with Hammer Hand strike at I10 (yep, initiative 10 strength 10). I would have thought that the rules of the NDH superceeded the Initiative boost from the Psychic Power. Otherwise, ouch. That's a lovely combo. :jaw: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2688843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 They do, so he should be striking at Initiative 1, not 10. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2688852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I'm sorry, don't have the dex with me.... Can Paladin's still cast holocaust? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2688888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Yep, they still have it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2688898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingareth Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 ...Grey Knights you mean surely? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2688900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resv Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 They do, so he should be striking at Initiative 1, not 10. Well, I'm glad that I only played one game with a Librarian! Sorry about the misinformation about this guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2688942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Well done so far on this, and I've enjoyed all of the battle reports. I'm looking forward to the rest. I'm also jealous that you've gotten to play so much; I only get out to play a few times a year these days. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Well, I'm glad that I only played one game with a Librarian! Sorry about the misinformation about this guys. No worries! ;) It's a part of playing a new codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custodian Athiair Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 green with envy! so much! wish i could play with the codex :tu: i suppose i'll just have to wait for 3 weeks until i can buy it and some models! but keep giving information please it is very useful. btw can anyone tell me what RAD grenades to and what servo skulls do (because apparently they are amazing) and also what is everyone's opinion on the brotherhood champion. imo he's a bit poor for a HQ, he's not going to be able to kill much in my opinion. and i think that a BC or a GM can provide the same combat abilities and more helpful rules for the army. although admitably slightly more expensive, it's defo worth it. (anyone else? opinions?) thanks in advance Athiair ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 ...Grey Knights you mean surely? I wondered if anyone else picked this up... I mean seriously how hard is it to call the army by its real name. I'm not going to waste my time reading this if skimming it only shows the army name is spelt wrong every time I saw it at a glance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA.Rauk Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 What's the point of being rude over something minor and silly to someone trying to be helpful? Go punch a puppy or something- I'm sure it'll help you feel better. And by the way, thanks for posting this stuff Resv. It helps some of the what ifs and brain storming, seeing them tested against current armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I prefer the British spelling as well, but there's no need to cause a fuss about it. Do you get worked up if someone types 'armor', 'color' or 'demon' as well? Resv, do you have the battle reports posted somewhere seperate or are they scattered throughout the rumour (or rumor, for Zealadin) thread? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Its not a matter of someone using the 'american'/wrong spelling because of cultural reasons. They are GREY KNIGHTS. I checked the American GWS site and they are still GREY KNIGHTS. In fact I checked every language/country selection available and strangely enough its GREY in every language that has the word. If you can't be bothered calling them by their NAME, and yes it is a name not just a colour, then don't mention them at all. I don't mind how people want to spell words, but names are what convey an identity and meaning and are important. I've collected GREY Knights for years, and no one I have EVER seen has managed to spell their name wrong. Despite a huge amount of GREY Knight players I know being from a huge variety of cultures and countries. I know its a huge shock to all the codex hoppers, but its about having a little respect for what you are talking about. Oh and not coming across as mentally impaired, the way the people who insist upon calling rogues 'rouges' in fantasy games. Entertaining people who do things plain wrong just lowers the quality of this forum, which the mods seem to take pretty seriously. So when GWS releases a "Gray Knight" codex let me know, or at least do things properly. So don't give me rubbish about the small things, I've collected this army for years, and if every man and his dog are going to start collecting it because it has got an amazing new codex, then they can spell the name right, as its one of the few remaining unchanged features since the last codex. Upset? Insulted? WELL NOW YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL WHEN I SEE THIS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I checked the American GWS site and they are still GREY KNIGHTS. In fact I checked every language/country selection available and strangely enough its GREY in every language that has the word. That's not true, they're called 'Chevaliers Gris' in French and 'Caballeros Grisis' in Spanish, for example. Are you going to be upset with French people (besides the fact that they're French to begin with :P) that they're not calling them 'Chevaliers Grey'? And technically, American English doesn't have the word grey either. But seriously, about all the things to be upset about in the world, the spelling differences between American and British English should be a minor one. Take a chill pill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 wow, an internet argument over semantics.... color me surprised. (i wonder what color i'd be colored?) rad grenades cause the enemy unit in the first round of an assault to be at -1 Toughness value, makes killing monstrous creatures easier and if it brings that toughness down to 5 you can instant death it on STR 10 weapons. servo skulls are a little more complicated.... the short version is holds scout moves and infiltrators back at the beginning of the game if you're careful where you place them. they also make blast markers scatter less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I checked the American GWS site and they are still GREY KNIGHTS. In fact I checked every language/country selection available and strangely enough its GREY in every language that has the word. That's not true, they're called 'Chevaliers Gris' in French and 'Caballeros Grisis' in Spanish, for example. Are you going to be upset with French people (besides the fact that they're French to begin with :P) that they're not calling them 'Chevaliers Grey'? And technically, American English doesn't have the word grey either. But seriously, about all the things to be upset about in the world, the spelling differences between American and British English should be a minor one. Take a chill pill. There is NO spelling difference, do you have a problem with reading comprehension? They are called 'GREY' on every page excluding those few which have a totally different word. Would you care to point out WHERE it can be found spelt "GRAY"? Thats right you can't because its NOT. NOT ANYWHERE. I see that you seem to be having trouble coming to terms with the concept of a name. Now if I called you RedumpfaceNL I think we can agree that you would be somewhat perplexed and confused (perhaps annoyed) by the OBVIOUSLY incorrect spelling of your name. You would probably assume I am an idiot, stupid, or a troll. (Accurately if I was doing it for any other reason than to prove this point, since I am careful to make sure I spell people's names correctly when refering to them out of respect) If this doesn't bother you at all, then please delete that account, remake one with this new name, and prove to me that 'its only a minor issue' and that your going to take the chill pill and show me how it works. I don't know if you have ever noticed, but go out and mispronounce people's names. They really don't like it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muadib02 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 You both take this far to seriously. on a better note @ Resv: Very good work on the battle reports. I hope to see more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
antique_nova Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I checked the American GWS site and they are still GREY KNIGHTS. In fact I checked every language/country selection available and strangely enough its GREY in every language that has the word. That's not true, they're called 'Chevaliers Gris' in French and 'Caballeros Grisis' in Spanish, for example. Are you going to be upset with French people (besides the fact that they're French to begin with :)) that they're not calling them 'Chevaliers Grey'? And technically, American English doesn't have the word grey either. But seriously, about all the things to be upset about in the world, the spelling differences between American and British English should be a minor one. Take a chill pill. There is NO spelling difference, do you have a problem with reading comprehension? They are called 'GREY' on every page excluding those few which have a totally different word. Would you care to point out WHERE it can be found spelt "GRAY"? Thats right you can't because its NOT. NOT ANYWHERE. I see that you seem to be having trouble coming to terms with the concept of a name. Now if I called you RedumpfaceNL I think we can agree that you would be somewhat perplexed and confused (perhaps annoyed) by the OBVIOUSLY incorrect spelling of your name. You would probably assume I am an idiot, stupid, or a troll. (Accurately if I was doing it for any other reason than to prove this point, since I am careful to make sure I spell people's names correctly when refering to them out of respect) If this doesn't bother you at all, then please delete that account, remake one with this new name, and prove to me that 'its only a minor issue' and that your going to take the chill pill and show me how it works. I don't know if you have ever noticed, but go out and mispronounce people's names. They really don't like it. Assume that your an idiot? stupid? a troll? ................Never, would i do such a thing. Over reacting to an issue that is unworthy of such zealousness? Yes. Would it just so hard to provide constructive criticism, not just mouthing off about how silly or inadequate someone is? You talk about people mis-spelling things that would annoy people, have you even considered that your unhelpful manners is helping him any better? Your just annoying him and embarrassing him more than necessary. On a side note: Your note a daemon trying to find which chapter of space marines that you want to kill right? Because i may be tempted to create a Gray Knight's chapter just to make this comment worthwhile :P thanks antique_nova Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbb Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 @ Resv- When can we expect part 2?? I have absolutely no intention of playing Grey Knights but enjoyed reading your post (know thy enemy and all). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 There is NO spelling difference, do you have a problem with reading comprehension? They are called 'GREY' on every page excluding those few which have a totally different word. So you don't mind if another language uses their own translation of grey, but Americans are suddenly forced to use the British version just because GW is a British company and uses their version on their website? The fact that it's translated in other languages should give some hint that it's not a strict name. I don't know if you have ever noticed, but go out and mispronounce people's names. They really don't like it. I don't know if you have ever noticed, but go out and point out people's spelling mistakes, disregarding anything they say and making personal attacks just because of it. They really don't like it. Alas, last post of me on the subject; my apologies to Resv and the other posters for this off-topicness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Woah... someone is asking for a ban here. Resv, thanks, those bat-rep helps me get a grasp as to how to build my army ;) Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 and also what is everyone's opinion on the brotherhood champion. imo he's a bit poor for a HQ, he's not going to be able to kill much in my opinion. and i think that a BC or a GM can provide the same combat abilities and more helpful rules for the army. although admitably slightly more expensive, it's defo worth it. (anyone else? opinions?) Brotherhood Champions are worthless. In an army that will almost always be stretched for points, you can't afford to waste any on characters/units that won't contribute to the army. It's the same with Brother Captains. For 15 points more you can take a Grand Master instead and you get the Grand Strategy (which allows you to, in a roundabout way, "buff" D3 units, with things like Scout or making them Scoring). rad grenades cause the enemy unit in the first round of an assault to be at -1 Toughness value, makes killing monstrous creatures easier and if it brings that toughness down to 5 you can instant death it on STR 10 weapons. When a successful Leadership test "activates" Force Weapons (an amazing mechanic for units), and every model in the army equipped with Force Weapons, I'm sure you'll agree you don't need Strength 10 to instant kill monsters. If anything, it simply makes it easier to get your wounds in. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 however, half the tyranid monstrous creatures have shadow of the warp, which you'll have to make the leadership test on 3d6 and there also tricky eldar tricks for wraithlords and wraithguard* (barring banner using terminators), that stuff's not always guaranteed, so a nice low tech back up is always nice. (*didn't mention the Avatar cause he's a demon so he's boned anyway!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 As an American, 'grey' is objectively better (then again I also like 'armour' and 'honour' than the u-less versions as well). ;) That said, it's just a cultural difference, no need to get puffed up over it. A Grey Knight by any other name still smashes face just as readily. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224793-playtesting-the-codex-final-impressions/#findComment-2690765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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