Playtesting the Codex: Final Impressions

[DV8]

however, half the tyranid monstrous creatures have shadow of the warp, which you'll have to make the leadership test on 3d6 and there also tricky eldar tricks for wraithlords and wraithguard* (barring banner using terminators), that stuff's not always guaranteed, so a nice low tech back up is always nice.

 

 

 

 

 

(*didn't mention the Avatar cause he's a demon so he's boned anyway!)

 

If you're worried you won't be able to activate the Nemesis Weapons because of Shadows, then simply hit the Tyranid psykers (like Hive Tyrants/Swarm Lords) with 4 Mindstrike Missiles. And as you say using the Brotherhood Banner guarantees you activate it in time.

 

 

DV8

[The Rose Princes]

There are 10 different model types that cause shadow of the warp ranging from 3 to 6 wounds each model (10 if it's a good day for DOoM), how many missiles do you have?

 

i understand what you're saying, i'm just saying it's not so cut and dry; there are things out there that gonna mess with things.

 

i'm waiting for the first dark eldar player to crucible of malediction a whole unit away (it counts as one psyker) and see everyone call foul.. fair's fair.

[boreas]

Its the nid warriors that worry me. They are though, non-psyker and have SitW. Thankfully, they die well to psycannons :P

 

Phil

[The Rose Princes]

Its the nid warriors that worry me. They are though, non-psyker and have SitW. Thankfully, they die well to psycannons :)

 

Phil

no worries any more... Psy-Ri Dread.

warriors are toughness 4 4+ save.

autocannons with psybolt rounds are strength 8 ap 4; each shot is an instant death.

[bertboxer]

at least in the whole "grey/gray" issue they're pronounced the same

its calling him 'corteaz' or 'cortez' that's driving me crazy haha

there's no r in his name

 

ah well, good batreps, i'm really looking forward to getting the final codex in my hands

[DV8]

There are 10 different model types that cause shadow of the warp ranging from 3 to 6 wounds each model (10 if it's a good day for DOoM), how many missiles do you have?

 

There are only a handful of models in the Tyranid Codex that qualify as Psykers:

 

Hive Tyrant

Swarm Lord

Tervigon

Zoanthrope

Doom of Malan'tai

Tyranid Warriors

Broodlords

Trygon Prime

 

These all cause Shadows in the Warp, yes, but look at the list. The only targets in that list that you'll probably want to use your Nemesis Weapons against are the Hive Tyrants and/or Swam Lord. Every other creature in that list can be taken out with either shooting your regular combat (don't forget that as Psykers, when you charge them you drop them to Initiative 1). So use your Mindstrikes against the Tyrants to knock out their heavy hitter(s) early on, then throw a unit of Terminators with Brotherhood Banner at the next biggest threat(s) while the rest of your army deals with the rest.

 

i understand what you're saying, i'm just saying it's not so cut and dry; there are things out there that gonna mess with things.

 

Of course there are, and it's all about knowing how to tackle whats out there. Suffice to say that Grey Knights don't need the majority of their Psychic powers against Tyranids, and are more than poised to take them out rather quickly.

 

i'm waiting for the first dark eldar player to crucible of malediction a whole unit away (it counts as one psyker) and see everyone call foul.. fair's fair.

 

When units cast Psychic powers, they cast once, using the Leadership of the Justicar/Keeper of the Flame (or if they're dead, a random Grey Knight). Any Perils of the Warp are inflicted on said model. Similarly, the Crucible of Malediction would simply kill the Justicar/Keeper of the Flame (or if they're dead, a random Grey Knight). If a Dark Eldar player wants to argue that the Crucible of Malediction would kill an entire unit (because every Grey Knight is a Psyker), then I would argue that every Grey Knight can cast Psychic Powers individually (say 10 Purifiers casting 10 Cleansing Flames?).

 

 

DV8

[number6]

+++ INQUISITOR INCOMING +++

 

@Zealadin: You are out of line. Your comments in this post are especially egregious and you should feel lucky I don't give you a warning right now for them. Get off your high horse and find a different topic to discuss. The truth of the matter is there really are two equally valid spellings of the word "gray". See how I just used the one GW isn't using there in my last sentence? Whether our units are more properly called "Grey" Knights or "Gray" Knights is not something worth arguing about. And especially not something you use to attack other members.

 

@antique_nova: You should know better than to feed a troll. Quit it or find yourself in similarly hot water. If you find yourself offended by posts in a topic, click the REPORT button. Don't antagonize.

 

If either of you want to discuss this further, PM me.

[Requiemnex]

I <3 moderators...

 

 

Thank you to no end for posting this. It really confirms a lot of my thoughts of how things will perform on the field.

 

I was just telling a few friends that IG will > GK in most situations and GK will > horde armies including IG if they choose to play horde.

 

The unit run downs are great. I have to agree with DV8 that you might as well take the model for more points that helps your force more. D3 unit buffs are HUGE for grey knights.

[RedemptionNL]

I was just telling a few friends that IG will > GK in most situations and GK will > horde armies including IG if they choose to play horde.

 

Yeah, I agree, GK are probably going to have most troubles with armies that can do a lot of damage to MEQ in shooting, like IG, and some of the armies that have very good psyker defense, while they'll have an easier time with horde armies.

 

Ironically, the toughest match for a GK seems to be another GK, as all the power weapons and anti-psyker stuff will make for some bloody matches.

[Resv]

Sorry about the delay on the second part of my final impression post. I've been keeping up with what people are saying around the internet about the new codex and the units in it. I think there have been some pretty good analysis written out there that meets up with what my experiences have been. There has also been some rather dire and odd things written that I think are a bit off base. I don't know quite how to stress this but the sky isn't falling, Gray Knights are going to be a lot of fun but are by no means going to invalidate your army.

 

With that said I guess I should continue.

 

Troops

 

Terminators

I have always rather liked Terminators and have always tried to take a unit in my Space Marine army. Making them a troops choice with out any FOC character shenanigans is fantastic. I know they can't take Storm Shields which is a disappointment to some but they shouldn't be compared to Assault Terminators anyway. In all of the games I have played with them so far I have either used Servo Skulls to deep strike them or walked them up the board. Taking a full unit does get expensive (and I know points are slim) but being able to combat squad them if you wanted to provide more unit saturation. Terminators are far from necessary for any army as they do represent a large investment of points and you might be better off taking two cheaper units to fulfill the troops requirement. I also want to put a plug in for the Brotherhood Banner, it REALLY adds to the punch of the Terminators and automatically passing Force Weapon tests without having to muck about with any psychic defenses is well worth it.

 

Gray Knight Strike Squad

As the basic troops unit I really like these guys. I know people have been really put out by the loss of an attack, weapon skill, and fearless but they do cost less and they comes with Force Weapons and grenades, wonderful grenades! I found that two Psycannons and placing them in a Rhino worked really well, since they could fire out of the top hatch. Warp Quake is also one of the more potent powers as was seen when a Tyranid player lost his entire unit of Raveners when they got to close to my GKSS. There has been a bit of conversation about adding on Psybolt Ammo to the squad to help out their shooting as well as taking at least one Master Crafted Daemon Hammer on the Justicar. Both of these upgrades are great but if I can say this plainly, really think about these upgrades before you take them. These are the kind of things that start small and end up eating points as your list comes together. This is one of the issues I have with this Codex, it is easy to get carried away with upgrades.

 

Henchmen

I grouped these guys into the troops section as I think it is going to be rare to see them out side of this role. I know there is quite a bit of debate on how they actually function as a troops choice but I rather leave that for a different time to discuss. Anyway, Henchmen are one of the most difficult units I have ever tried to wrap my head around. I see players specializing every unit to tackle a specific job, which is probably the most effective way to play Henchmen. Expect to see very effective shooting units and deadly assault units, but never a mixed unit. Henchmen are very fragile as well being mostly T3 with armor being on the light side, which any Guard player will be completely familiar with. The Jokero is a neat addition, and I always recommend taking them in pairs when ever possible to offset their abysmal stats so you can still have access to their fire power. Sadly from what we found in our games using Henchmen, when you start mixing together the different options you can fall into a wound allocation trap which can be a nightmare on time and game play.

 

The troop choices occupy a strange role in Codex: Gray Knights. The Grand Strategy makes the importance of your chosen Troops less important compared to other armies. Purifiers are very scary, and in action I can attest to how powerful they can be clearing defenders from an objective. Alternatively, Interceptor Squads and Teleporting Dread Knights can quickly make late game challenges and cause even the best defenses to falter instantly. What I am trying to say is that there are units that do the job of scoring much better than GKSS or even Terminators and you are given the flexibility to exploit that depending on the game. That is why I wouldn't make significant in itial investments into upgrades for GKSS in particular until I have fleshed out the rest of my list.

 

Heavy Support on its way later today after work. I hope this is somewhat insightful?

[Marmande]

One thing to consider is that, with the loss of allied Mystics and Ld10 Inquisitors with a Psychic Hood, Imperial Guard have lost an otherwise crucial defense against Deep Strike and psychic powers. Hell, with the loss of those rules in general I wonder if Deep Striking is a viable tactic with the use of Servo Skulls, especially with multiple Relentless Psycannons.

[Resv]

Quick note on the different types of Psychic Defense:

Shadow in the Warp can be very nasty but its main failing against Gray Knight is the power's range. There are a lot of different units in the 'Nid codex that have this power but I have never seen them saturated enough to cause much of a problem. I really think the most potent power in the entire Gray Knight codex is Fortitude since it seems like it is the power I use the most and it has kept my entire army mobile through lots of fire. To get the most bang for their buck any unit with Shadow is going to have to get close and funny enough mid to close range is where Gray Knights are deadliest. Also this is where Brotherhood Banner really shows it's worth.

 

Psychic Hoods are not much of a problem for Gray Knights as most of our leadership is high enough to challenge the Librarian sporting the hood. Librarians are prime targets for every Gray Knight unit since they don't have an Invulnerable save as standard. Which is also why I love my Vindicare Assassin, if a Librarian is going to get within hood range, he should be in sniper range. Runic Weapons are tough to deal with since they just shut powers down with out a roll off. Out of all of of the available Psychic Defenses in the game I would have to say that Rune Priests are the most annoying.

 

By far, Eldar are the worst. I really didn't even bother rolling any of my powers in the game I played against Eldar and to be honest it was a bit of a struggle.

 

Lastly, the Psychic Defense that lots of people were expecting to decimate Gray Knights did NOTHING to the army. I used Crucible of Malediction against a Gray Knight army on Sunday and it really didn't do much of anything due to it's range being variable. Unless you can get your Homunculus into the heart of your opponents force don't expect this to do much. I was very underwhelmed with the Crucible.

 

That was quite a bit longer than expected, I should do work now.

[BlkTom]

Quick question on Rad nades... the -1 to Toughness alters the stat. I would have to argue that this does not allow you to kill the Unit using it's new (or altered) Toughness because otherwise the same effect would happen with those units who are mounted and get a +1 Toughness. The rules state you use the un-altered Toughness for instant kill effects. Does the Rad nade say otherwise or alter this rule, or was this another over-sight like the I10, S10 Hammers? Or.. am I just plain wrong?

[Shyft]

The consensus seems to be that the Vindicare Assassin is now the go-to guy for any early game strategy denial, right?

 

I mean, you use him to take out something important early on, like a farseer or IG commander. Hmm... question: Does the Vindicare require you use a special round every shot, or is there a default, not-special version?

 

Thinking about it, the Vindicare could also be a wonderful region-denial element. Put him down and anything within his firing range and out of cover is threatened. Slap him in a choke point and the world is just gravy.

[Resv]

@BlkTom:

Rad Grenades don't effect the instant death thresh hold. I really like taking them to help get more wounds in and then trigger my Force Weapons if necessary.

 

@Shyft:

The Vindicare compliments the Gray Knights play style by being able to take out units that you pointed out. The Vindicare is more of a scalpel rather than a hammer. Using it for Area Denial is a great idea but he really doesn't have the fire power to kill a lot of models and he might be overwhelmed. Sadly, he isn't that hard to kill either.

 

He doesn't have a "default" shot but the round that I use the most is the Hellfire Round. With his huge ballistic skill you will just about always hit and the Hellfire round lets you wound on a 2+ with AP 1. This is just gravy and lets you remove power fists and such easily.

[RedemptionNL]

The consensus seems to be that the Vindicare Assassin is now the go-to guy for any early game strategy denial, right?

 

I mean, you use him to take out something important early on, like a farseer or IG commander. Hmm... question: Does the Vindicare require you use a special round every shot, or is there a default, not-special version?

 

Thinking about it, the Vindicare could also be a wonderful region-denial element. Put him down and anything within his firing range and out of cover is threatened. Slap him in a choke point and the world is just gravy.

 

The Exitus Rifle and Pistol have a Strength X AP1 Sniper default statline, but honestly, why would you ever use it? Why would you not want to wound on 2+, do two wounds, remove invulnerable saves or get better penetration against tanks? Do remember that the special rounds are now no longer imited, and you can shoot one every turn.

 

As for Farseers, well, they can easily be put in a Wave Serpent, against which the Vindicare is completely useless, unless you can target rear armour. Against other things they're amazing though, but expect him to draw a lot of fire.

[BlkTom]

Ahh... thanks Resv.

[Shyft]

Oh I see no reason not to use exitus special rounds, I was just curious if it was 4 options or 3.

 

The point of area denial with a Vindicare is more psychological than anything, as far as I'm concerned. Yeah he doesn't get enough shots to reliably put pressure on anything, but it works kinda like this, from my limited theorycrafting ability:

 

You have your vindicare in a good position, and you probably have something behind/near him the other player wants. An objective, a tasty anchoring squad of some kind. Something they'd normally want to kill.

 

The Vindicare serves as area denial because if the opponent wants to do anything in that area and not suffer sniper wrath, they'll need to kill the Vindicare (which is expected), or commit more units than normal to create a target oversaturation. Too many things to shoot, not enough shots. There are of course many units that are better at either option, or capable of doing both.

[Resv]

Oh I see no reason not to use exitus special rounds, I was just curious if it was 4 options or 3.

 

The point of area denial with a Vindicare is more psychological than anything, as far as I'm concerned. Yeah he doesn't get enough shots to reliably put pressure on anything, but it works kinda like this, from my limited theorycrafting ability:

 

You have your vindicare in a good position, and you probably have something behind/near him the other player wants. An objective, a tasty anchoring squad of some kind. Something they'd normally want to kill.

 

The Vindicare serves as area denial because if the opponent wants to do anything in that area and not suffer sniper wrath, they'll need to kill the Vindicare (which is expected), or commit more units than normal to create a target oversaturation. Too many things to shoot, not enough shots. There are of course many units that are better at either option, or capable of doing both.

 

Well said, mate. I think you have a good point there.

[Shyft]

huzzah, I has a good point!

 

I'm sure this damages my credibility, but I maybe get to play like, 7 games of 40k a year, due to how hard it is to get to my LGS. So I honestly don't really know how to play the game that well. Oh I have the BRB, I know the mechanics well enough, but I lack that strategic/tactical accumen you get from playing.

 

But yeah, psychology is huge in 40k. I did it with Daemonhunters codex and 3 land raiders: Basically "I have three tanks that will wreck your ^_^ + 3 units that will do the same. Try and keep them from hitting your lines."

 

Unfortunately I rarely won anyway, but It was certainly funny watching peoples expressions when I laid out 28 minis and 3 tanks. (20 PAGK and 8 terminators).

 

Edit: On a related note of area denial: You will have to very much contend with the notion that depending on how you deploy, your vindicare may be completely ignored.

 

like, if the vindicare is holding down one table quarter, the opponent may just go 'screw that' and go for the other table quarter. So if you're that into a unit 'making its points back', you'd have to keep that in mind.

[Marmande]

Actually guys,

 

During a turn in which a unit equipped with Rad Grenades launches an assault, or is assaulted, the enemy unit(s) suffer a -1 penalty to Toughness until the end of the phase (this does affect the victims' Instant Death threshold)

[Custodian Athiair]

this is great! thanks for all information so far, and yet to come! :)

 

i did have another wargear question, but i've forgotten it :(

i will bring it up if i remember :)

 

REMEMBERED IT! What does the Brotherhood Banner do??? full description if possible please :)

 

Athiair :D

[RedemptionNL]

REMEMBERED IT! What does the Brotherhood Banner do??? full description if possible please :D

 

Grants an extra attack to all members in the squad, and the squad automatically passes the Psychic test to activate their force weapons (i.e., Instant Death for all wounds caused).

[Shyft]

holy... an extra attack to everybody on top of force-weapon autosux? Sign Me Up.

[bearden441]

REMEMBERED IT! What does the Brotherhood Banner do??? full description if possible please :D

 

Grants an extra attack to all members in the squad, and the squad automatically passes the Psychic test to activate their force weapons (i.e., Instant Death for all wounds caused).

 

they still have to fail their invuln saves though, its not a auto death when a wound is caused - at least i think so, dont have my book with me at work.