Playtesting the Codex: Final Impressions

[HERO]

Posted a battle report of me using Draigo + Paladins vs. a balanced BA list:

http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2011/03/pgk-battle-reports.html

 

This battle report was just to show you guys how difficult it is to kill Paladins with a "normal" list when I'm taking advantage of cover and Shrouding.

[Resv]

I read your battle report and found it pretty well laid out my same experiences with Paladins; they are very difficult to remove. Also, I think many of the comments that people left on the battle report are pretty insightful. Why your opponent ever let his Storm Raven get within 24 inches of your Paladins I will never know. Also, annihilation with Paladins is a perfect match and I think you played very well to their strengths.

 

Where I think an all Paladin army fails is when it comes to controlling the board, they don't carry much of a threat range and their mobility once on the table isn't that great. In a large objective game, say 4 or 5, a cleaver opponent just needs to spread out his objectives across the board preferably in big open areas. This way your opponent can prevent Shrouding from giving up a good cover save. In the Annihilation game from Hero's bat-rep, the Blood Angel player seems to toss his troops against the Paladins. As we see in Hero's notes, this is almost like waves crashing against a stone cliff. It might have been a completely different game if the Blood Angel player had just used his superior mobility to stay out of range of the Paladins from the outset all the while taking pot shots. Of course, as someone mentioned in the comments section, the Blood Angels list wasn't really "Balanced" at all. Regardless, it would not have been a game I would want to play.

 

Paladins might be hard to kill but they do have their weaknesses. Besides low model count they can't preform sweeping advances for instance. They are still subject to instant death and, in the event of facing Eldar especially, perils of the warp tests will really hurt.

[grimz]

I am going to need to test Psychostroke vs Rad, my friends are currently freaking out over Psychstroke grenades

 

What's the rationale?

 

Getting charged and having each model only have 1 attack from say 4 if it was a boyz squad, is a pretty big reduction in combat effectivness. Other horde units, making them fit them selves first, can whittle numbers combining this with cleansing flame might be overkill though, not sure yet.

[Vilicate]

One thing I know that I haven't seen mentioned on here is the application of Hammerhand from an IC to the squad, allowing the squad to use their force weapons. Combined with a librarian with might of titan, a terminator squad (either normal or paladins) can have I6 halberds that are S6 with auto-instant death. It's really not that many points for what you get in CC, and will really rock the socks out of any TWC or Nob Bikers that you might encounter.

[HERO]

One thing I know that I haven't seen mentioned on here is the application of Hammerhand from an IC to the squad, allowing the squad to use their force weapons. Combined with a librarian with might of titan, a terminator squad (either normal or paladins) can have I6 halberds that are S6 with auto-instant death. It's really not that many points for what you get in CC, and will really rock the socks out of any TWC or Nob Bikers that you might encounter.

 

"If the psychic test is passed, all models in the unit (including ICs) have +1 strength.."

 

So yes, the IC tests for HH and ita pplies to the unit, then the squad can test for FW activation.

 

And it wasn't mentioned because it's pretty self-explanatory as long as you read the giant page dedicated to Nemesis Force Weapons.

[HERO]

I read your battle report and found it pretty well laid out my same experiences with Paladins; they are very difficult to remove. Also, I think many of the comments that people left on the battle report are pretty insightful. Why your opponent ever let his Storm Raven get within 24 inches of your Paladins I will never know. Also, annihilation with Paladins is a perfect match and I think you played very well to their strengths.

 

Where I think an all Paladin army fails is when it comes to controlling the board, they don't carry much of a threat range and their mobility once on the table isn't that great. In a large objective game, say 4 or 5, a cleaver opponent just needs to spread out his objectives across the board preferably in big open areas. This way your opponent can prevent Shrouding from giving up a good cover save. In the Annihilation game from Hero's bat-rep, the Blood Angel player seems to toss his troops against the Paladins. As we see in Hero's notes, this is almost like waves crashing against a stone cliff. It might have been a completely different game if the Blood Angel player had just used his superior mobility to stay out of range of the Paladins from the outset all the while taking pot shots. Of course, as someone mentioned in the comments section, the Blood Angels list wasn't really "Balanced" at all. Regardless, it would not have been a game I would want to play.

 

Paladins might be hard to kill but they do have their weaknesses. Besides low model count they can't preform sweeping advances for instance. They are still subject to instant death and, in the event of facing Eldar especially, perils of the warp tests will really hurt.

 

Yes, I find that to be their exact problem. Once they enter play and drag themselves through cover for that shrouding bonus, the entire army feels like its crawling.

 

I know as Dark Eldar, I'll spread out objectives and have a field day picking them apart piece by piece.

 

Another mistake Moros was making was that he was shooting too much at Draigo's squad. I think picking off smaller squads is the way to do it, and any squad outside the 6" Shrouding range should be annihilated first.

[Rinion]

Was just reading the new blog post (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=15900040a), one bit stuck out for me

 

"Incidentally, never forget to use the Hammerhand psychic power with the Dreadknight. Without that extra strength, it would have failed to wound the Carnifex, which would have survived the combat phase."

 

The Carnifex is Toughness 6, the Dreadknight with a sword is S6, with re-rolls to hit and wound. In this situation, wouldnt it maybe be better to use the ability of the Nemesis weapon to instagib the carnifex? I can understand how you can fail to wound with 4's with re-rolls, but agaisnt something with 4 wounds when you have 3 attacks and a force weapon, isnt it better to take the risk?

[Shyft]

hmm, if it's not too much trouble, can someone give me a rough example of how much a squad of paladin terminators cost? Don't violiate ToS or anything, I just want an idea of how much it'd take to field multiple squads at a given point level.

 

Mostly I have this idea of a sort of Hammer-an-Anvil kind of paladin list, but it's purely hypothetical and non-competitive.

[HERO]

Was just reading the new blog post (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=15900040a), one bit stuck out for me

 

"Incidentally, never forget to use the Hammerhand psychic power with the Dreadknight. Without that extra strength, it would have failed to wound the Carnifex, which would have survived the combat phase."

 

The Carnifex is Toughness 6, the Dreadknight with a sword is S6, with re-rolls to hit and wound. In this situation, wouldnt it maybe be better to use the ability of the Nemesis weapon to instagib the carnifex? I can understand how you can fail to wound with 4's with re-rolls, but agaisnt something with 4 wounds when you have 3 attacks and a force weapon, isnt it better to take the risk?

 

Don't take anything you read on the official blog seriously :|

[Gentlemanloser]

My Grand Strategy gives me 3 Scouting Paladin squads (including Draigo's)

 

I didn't think Scout transfered over to an IC that doesn't already have it?

[Ashe Darke]

My Grand Strategy gives me 3 Scouting Paladin squads (including Draigo's)

 

I didn't think Scout transfered over to an IC that doesn't already have it?

It doesn't. It's one of the USRs with an asterisk which says it is lost if an IC joins the unit or an IC with it joins a unit without it.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

I am going to need to test Psychostroke vs Rad, my friends are currently freaking out over Psychstroke grenades

 

What's the rationale?

 

Getting charged and having each model only have 1 attack from say 4 if it was a boyz squad, is a pretty big reduction in combat effectivness. Other horde units, making them fit them selves first, can whittle numbers combining this with cleansing flame might be overkill though, not sure yet.

 

Why not use blind grenades. No extra attacks on the assault. Costs less, works every time.

[Marmande]

Or both. :D

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Well put it this way, I don't like randomness. If I had only enough for Rad or Psychostroke, I'd choose Rad. If I had a little more, Rad and Blind.

[Resv]

I agree with Fred, I dislike the randomness of Psychostroke grenades. They are pretty awesome though and when paired with Rad-Grenades you get a very strong assault unit. The issue at hand though is the price. There has to be a limit to how many points you want to spend on a single unit, even when that unit is a Grand Master.

[Cpt_Reaper]

To those who can look at the codex:

 

What is the Brotherhood Champion and how does it work? What is it's role? Is it a bodyguard? Is it a separate commander?

[Shyft]

The Brotherhood Champion is the non-special version of Crowe. He's an HQ choice, cheaper, but doesn't unlock Paladins as troops. I don't know if he has IC status or not, probably not. But he basically has Cleansing Flame, Sword Stances (they do stuff, there's 3 choices), and the"If you kill me, I get to kill you back" mechanic.

[Cpt_Reaper]

I'd ask what Cleansing Flame is but I am sure it has been explained all over the place here :drool: I'll just wait till the codex turns up on my doorstep to answer that. In terms of the Paladin-Troops I don't much care, as I only intend to make one squad of them.

Thanks for the info. Now to play the waiting game. Or paint more of my DA-successors

[Shyft]

derp, i meant Purifiers-as-troops, Draigo unlocks paladins.

 

Cleansing Flame in so many words is a psychic power that's used in the assault phase, it makes everybody attacking you take a wound on 4+, and counts wounds for purposes of who wins combat once assault happens. Basically it's the anti-horde power.

[Cpt_Reaper]

-pats myself on the back for buying a bc- I am throwing it at my friends tyranids. Thanks for that bit too.

[Resv]

Brotherhood Champions are the Gray Knight answer to Chaplins, and sadly, they are not very good. For your investment, which like all Gray Knight HQs is substantial, all you get is a one wound IC with a Nemesis Sword. You have exactly 3 upgrades you can give him, none of which are really going to help him in combat. He is a character the is meant to die and take out an expensive unit with him. He lacks all of the flexibility of Grand Masters and Librarians, but he is cheap. Truly, the only upside to him is that you can put him in a Rhino or Razorback. Also, he doesn't come with Cleansing Flame, that is a Purifier and Crowe only power I believe.

 

If you are set on using him, put him in a unit of Purifiers geared for close combat. Don't be surprised if he gets singled out early in the game so that he can't use his Heroic Strike power against HQs or other power house units.

 

I really can't recommend taking him unless you are playing in smaller point games where points are going to be especially tight. The other HQ choices are SO MUCH BETTER and add a lot to the army over all that it is hard to justify taking a Champion over one of them.

[Cpt_Reaper]

Oh really? Well I guess I better play test it before I paint it. Otherwise I'll just use it as a space marine captain

[HERO]

Pure Grey Knights!

 

Game 2 posted vs. BA w/ a different list.

Enjoy the read!!!

http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2011/03/pgk-battle-reports.html

[Gentlemanloser]

I choose to give Scout (rolled a 3 on d3 again) to 2x of my GKSS squads and I gave re-roll 1s to wound for my Paladins (they were in reserve for DS).

 

You can't do this unfortuneatly (unless TGS has changed from the PDF). All units need ot be given the same 'Role'.

 

It would be awesome if that has changed, making TGS even more beneficial and game changing. ;)

[Battle-Captain]

A quick lessons learned on the use of Paladins. Don't let Mephiston charge them, his sanguine sword power and unleash rage power equals dead paladin unit.... :ph34r: