Chairman_woo Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 So when I first read his entry I thaught he looked a but rubbish, lots of pts for a otherwize pretty standard justicar with a special save. Then I read his I shall not yeild rule properly! He dosent just get to come back to life on a 4+ but he can attempt to do it every turn! i.e. he never realy dies, counts as a troops choice for scoring and can deny his squads kill point if he is standing at the end of the game (the way I remember reading it). But that said.... just over 100pts after the cost of the justicar you are upgrading, and you are gaining nothing but a Halberd and his imortality. Worthwhile just for the sheere shenanigans of having a scoring imortal dude? or too many points for a glorified Sgt.? What do people think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I'm thinking this is going to be one of the first things FAQ'd to match the Living Saint (because essentially, that's what he's meant to be). IE, roll to see if he gets back up and gives everyone the finger. If failed, remove from play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2689526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 He turns a 1 KP unit into 2 but you're not always gonna lose him unless you try and kill him off. He does however have Psychic Mastery 2 so he can cast Hammer Hand on the unit and they can all have S5 active force weapons. The only other way you'll get that is by adding in an IC with Psychic Mastery 2 so he's a cheaper was of getting that on your termies. He's also Fearless when on his own, I don't think him being Fearless in a non-Fearless squad does anything. It's a bit of a weird one because he's not an IC. Never seen this happen before really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2689532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 He's not an IC, he's an upgrade character. And by the rules of fearless, any model that is fearless that joins or is a part of a non-fearless unit makes that unit fearless too. It would only make sense (I realize that's a huge stretch here) that because HE is fearless and leading the unit, the unit is fearless as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2689552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 He's not an IC, he's an upgrade character. And by the rules of fearless, any model that is fearless that joins or is a part of a non-fearless unit makes that unit fearless too. It would only make sense (I realize that's a huge stretch here) that because HE is fearless and leading the unit, the unit is fearless as well. I believe that was probably the intention. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2689554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePurifier Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Actually it's the other way around. A Fearless character loses the special rule if he joins a non-Fearless unit. If he's not Fearless, he gains it if he joins a Fearless unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2689576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 That rule talks about ICs that join a unit. Thawn is not an IC, he's an upgrade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2689578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 It's specifically written that he will keep attempting to resurrect, it's pretty clear that was there intention, otherwise points wise it would be ridiculous to pay for what is effectively a one off FNP. It still doesn't mean he's great but imo it would be quite cool for his terminators to be finished off and him killed only for him to return next turn to wreak havoc on the squad who thought they had just killed him. I may never run him but I certainly intend on making a model to represent him just incase, if I don't use him he'll simply be one of the few unhelmeted GKs I have. ~Gil :ermm: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2689583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplainmeliadus Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Actually it's the other way around. A Fearless character loses the special rule if he joins a non-Fearless unit. If he's not Fearless, he gains it if he joins a Fearless unit. Fearless isn't asterisked, so that's not true. If it were, Chaplains would be useless. I feel you may be thinking of the WHFB Unbreakable rule, which is similar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2689646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMoon Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 nope he is correct. the chaplain states specifically he gives him AND his unit fearless. that is why chaos terminators BLOW im not putting my fearless Typhus with a unit of non-fearless terminators so they can fail a moral check and die. the only time a IC puts a rule toward the unit is if it specifically says so such as Kahn saying him AND his unit have furious charge and fleet. not just him. its a stupid rule but one us Chaos players are very familiar with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2689666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
glsn Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Problem is he is not an IC, he is an upgrade, like Telion. Telion gives his unit stealth. Thawn gives his unit Fearless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2689738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Grand Admirals are surprisingly hard to kill... Hmm. I get the feeling I've made this joke before. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2689749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Problem is he is not an IC, he is an upgrade, like Telion. Telion gives his unit stealth. Thawn gives his unit Fearless. Just because Telion does that in an FAQ it doesn't mean the same will happen here. Upon looking at the Fearless USR RAW it doesn't work. 'However, as long as a fearless character stays with a unit that is no fearless, he loses this special rule' Note how it says character not Independent Character, which he is as per the codex and how characters are defined in the rulebook (pg 47, 2nd bullet point). I'm sure that the intention was for him to pass it on but until it is FAQ'd, RAW he doesn't make the unit Fearless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2689751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Seems to me like he would be really usefull for getting deep into the enemy lines, ideally near an objective, where he will procede to be a masive pain in the arse as he keeps getting knocked down and getting up again (insert cheesy 90's pop music reference here). He's not very likely to actualy claim an objective but the enemy cant afford to ignore him if you can get him near one as he could jump back to life at any time (and claim the obj. if ignored). And hes striking at I6 most of the time with a likely st5 forceweapon (both of whcih he can potentialy use in a turn). Not scary but just daingerous enough to make you pay attention. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2689901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 once again, he is not an independant character, he is an upgrade to the unit. If he was an IC, he would loose his Fearless except when by his own, but as he is not an IC he gives his fearless to the unit he belongs. On the other hand, i have killed 2 trygons on the same game with Thawn, to mention one of his many feats. He is awsome for what you are paying for him. Just get a big unit of termis and thawn. The first casualty is Thawn, always. From that point on, you have an immortal scoring point, that has to be dealt with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2801860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Kravin Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Only an FAQ can rule definitively on the Fearless question. I think that the nearest equivalent is Arjac Rockfist. He is an upgrade character for Wolf Guard and has the Stubborn special rule. The Space Wolf FAQ clarifies that because he is an upgrade character not an Independent Character he doesn't grant his unit Stubborn, it only comes into effect when he is the last model left in the unit. Since Thawn can actually become separated from his original unit (via death and resurrection) I think that the correct interpretation is that Fearless only kicks in once he's on his own. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2801888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Seems to me like he would be really usefull for getting deep into the enemy lines, ideally near an objective, where he will procede to be a masive pain in the arse as he keeps getting knocked down and getting up again (insert cheesy 90's pop music reference here). DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2801900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Problem is he is not an IC, he is an upgrade, like Telion. Telion gives his unit stealth. Thawn gives his unit Fearless. I think the difference may lie in that units use the leadership of the Justicar for morale/leadership test. Thrawn being fearless is what confers it. Kind of a loophole really, but I could buy that explanation. The only other possible explanation would be he isn't fearless until his squad is dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2801938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Personally I've gone for the latter in the past. ATSKNF is transferred to non-ATSKNF members of the unit. Fearless isn't translated like this, even with upgrade characters. The Fearless rule on pg.75, in the BRB is applicable to all 'characters' who are part of the unit. Note the lack of an 'Independent' unlike the sentence before? The only time Independent Characters are mentioned in the rule is when non fearless ICs join a Fearless unit, in the previous sentence. So Thawn would not pass the USR over in this incidence, but he would have ATSKNF, until he is separated from his unit. As for the character himself, if you have the points to spend he's worth the additional points when available, which is rare from my experience. The aforementioned ability to cast multiple spells can definitely be helpful against certain armies. Grand Admirals are surprisingly hard to kill... Hmm. I get the feeling I've made this joke before. Another SW fan, huh? :tu: Thinking about it, I'm pretty sure that character is the inspiration for the name of our invincible justicar-hero. Someone else mentioned on another thread how much Kaldor Draigo sounded like Khal Drogo from GoT, so it wouldn't be a surprise if Matt Ward has been scouring his favourite fantasy franchises for inspiration. :blush: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2801976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrionTheImp Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Thinking about it, I'm pretty sure that character is the inspiration for the name of our invincible justicar-hero. Someone else mentioned on another thread how much Kaldor Draigo sounded like Khal Drogo from GoT, so it wouldn't be a surprise if Matt Ward has been scouring his favourite fantasy franchises for inspiration. :drool: I often find myself calling Kaldor Draigo Khal Drogo...glad I'm not the only one doing it. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2802340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Me too heh. Though I can't seem to fit his horse into the army.... Back on topic. I feel that thawn is like arjac. Has an ability that his squad doesn't so he will benefit from it when he's on his own. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224851-justicar-thawnsecretly-awsome/#findComment-2802416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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