Blood Reaver

[Lord_Caerolion]

Dammit, that article made me want Blood Reaver even more. Not just for the Night Lords stuff either, but for the fact that A-DB seems to have his sights set on correcting the portrayal of one Chaos special character per book. Soul Hunter gave us Abaddon how he should be, First Heretic did Lorgar, and now we have Blood Reaver and Huron. Plus, the Imperial Armour books have got me loving Huron's character, and developed him into a 3D character with actual motivation and depth, but that was all pre-Badab. Now we get the chance to see how he's developed.

A-DB, why must you taunt us so with hints of your awesomeness?

[firestorm40k]

Funnily enough, I've just pre-ordered this today. As much as I liked 'Soul Hunter', 'Blood Reaver' has a lot to live up to, as I'm reading 'Emperor's Mercy', the most rollickingly enjoyable BL novel I have read since the first few Gaunts Ghost's novels.

[Darkchild130]

I am usually massively against fanboyism (something about macho Alpha male BS or something :tu: ) but Cadian Blood, Soul Hunter and Helsreach are the only BL books i've read twice over, and I cant wait for Blood Reaver!

 

Uh oh... :thanks:

 

Darkchild

[Gree]

Soul Hunter gave us Abaddon how he should be,

 

Don't get me wrong. I loved Soul Hunter and I'm eagerly looking forward to Blood Reaver, but I did't really like how Abaddon was portrayed in Soul Hunter.

 

I like some parts of Abaddon in the book, but it ultimately portrays him losing his patience over a single Astartes (Granted an important one) and losing and fleeing before the Blood Angels. His plot to ensnare Talos fails. His plot to plunder Cryrthe fails. The battle ends with his allies leaving him and him running away. That's not very impressive. That doesn't really help the whole ''Failbaddon'' image to have him losing and running away again. Granted,he was forced to retreat from circumstances outside his control, but it still doesn't help at all.

 

Then you have Talos's statements about the Black Legion being a dwindling military force. Granted, it's from his own biased point of view, but it really doesn't go well with what I see the Black Legion as. The Chaos Codex describes champions of all Legions flocking to join his banner, in Dark Creed the Word Bearers talk about how powerful Abaddon is and how big the Black Legion is all while plotting behind his back. (I see you Erebus). They even state just how much bigger and more powerful the Black Legion is compared to the Word Bearers. (Ten-to-one if I recall correctly)

 

My favorite Abaddon depiction is really in the Gothic War books, where he's more manpulating and calculating. My favorite Black Legion depiction is the Chaos Champion on Dark Adeptus, who has a crew of daemons he personally has defeated in combat and kicks a good amount of Imperial ass personally.

 

I'm rather hard-pressed to name five significant victories that the Black Legion has won. The portrayal of Abaddon is that bad. Honsou dismisses him as a failure. Marduk and Erebus call him a failure. Talos ridicules him to his face. Some Chaos characters respect him, such as the Exalted, but when it's the main characters of each novel sneering at him, it's more significant to readers.

 

I would rather have a novel focusing on Abaddon winning a significant victory against a known Chapter (Like the Blood Angels of White Scars, not some freshly introduced chapter we've just heard of) and credit it to his military ability. Give him a victory that in no uncertain terms he won.

 

The only victories I can think of that for Abaddon are the battle of Mackan and at El Phanor. Both of which are mentioned in his Heroes and Villians article briefly.

 

In fact both have pretty good potential as stories. Mackan has Abaddon sticking it to the Blood Angels and denying them their geneseed. If you ever want to write about Abaddon's hatred of the BA then you can use that. Or go with El Phanor (Or however you pronouce it). The Luna Wolves liberated that planet orignally. You could have Abaddon land on the planet to burn it to the ground, and reminiscence on the days long gone when he liberated the planet. Contrast Abaddon the Imperial Hero and Abaddon the Despoiler in his own thoughts. Perhaps give him the tinest twinge of regret over what he has become before he dismisses it and moves on.

 

....and yes I'm aware A-D-B had plans for two Abaddon books, but those are far on the horizon to put it optimistically. Loyalists are more popular by far and the Grey Knights will be getting love of some sort from A-D-B far before Abaddon due to the new Codex.

 

Anyway, to conclude. I don't want a character who wins all the time. I don't want a mustache-twirling villian. I do want a well-written character who can actually win and can justify said wins.

[Dan The Deamon]

Winning isn't fun to read about. Am I pessimistic?

[Gree]

Winning isn't fun to read about. Am I pessimistic?

 

Losing constantly isn't fun either. It's a meme at this point on how Abaddon fails. I already stated I don't want a Mary Sue who wins all the time. But frankly I would like Abaddon to display the skills that made him Warmaster and the most powerful Chaos Lord in the first place. I d'nt want him to win all the time. I want him to redeem his tattered reputation.

[Pavement Artist]

I think Talos was more commenting on the Black legion "dwindling" in terms of their original strength. Remember, he's the guy who is disgusted at the exalted's perceived "weakness" at being possesed. He despises Uzas for being a pawn of Khorne. He still sees nobility within his legion, or at least skewed sense of nobility that at least a part of the Night lords arent beholden to any of the Chaos Gods. I think he makes some comment about an Imperial Astartes of a successor chapter, how the Imperials constantly dilute themselves by creating so many seperate chapters of marines.

 

From His point of view, the Black legion is a broken legion consisting of disparate elements of dozens of other legions and warbands. He still sees the Black legion as the Sons of Horus legion when in truth, after 10,000 years of warfare, they have mutated into a completely different form. He's an idealist in that regard. Talos is applying these noble concepts to the war against the imperium that he knows is justified because his gene father was a martyr for the cause. He doesn't fit into the grander tapestry of the chaos legions because in his mind, the legions have become bastardized parodies of what they once were. In an ideal universe, he see's the legions as a united whole, waging a war against an unjust Imperium when in fact, there is no unifying drive to the traitor legions, no grand plan.

 

The weakness he sees in the Black legion is only a perceived one. He see's a scattered, anarchic legion, consisting of the flotsam and jetsam of all the seperate legions and he hates it. He believes its a dilution of the Sons of Horus legion and sees their embrace of the more esoteric elements of chaos (possesed, rubric marines, all that jazz) as being an attempt to cover up this weakness or to repair a dwindling legion.

 

The fact that the Black legion can consist of so many disparate elements is a testament to the power of Abaddon. I started the hobby with chaos marines and the bottom line was always that the God's hated each other and were doing their best to bugger things up for each other as much as they were seeking to lay waste to the galaxy. Tzeentch marines and Khornate warriors should barely be able to be in the same room as each other, let alone go to war together.

 

And we're not talking about any old slap up on "Random forge world Gamma epsilon V". These are multiple GALAXY WIDE campaigns. I'll just let that sink in- the man is able to launch multiple CONCERTED STRIKES with forces consisiting of the entire pantheon of chaos. That's not weakness man, thats the mark of an extremely powerful/scary/insane leader.

[A D-B]

In some ways, I regret writing that scene, partly because of the way it can be construed into adding more derision on top of the "Abaddon is a Failure" meme.

 

I mean, Talos is a fairly deluded guy: the son of a great martyr, and just as lost in existence as his father was. He's a soul that literally drips with bias, even through his otherwise astute reflections and musings. So I don't immediately rush to saying Gree's wrong; Abaddon doesn't look great there, because it's so powerfully through Talos's eyes - I feel it's almost sincere enough to seem objective, rather than a character's point of view.

 

Or maybe I just didn't get the point across well enough. For that scene, I perceived Abaddon as essentially just doing it as a favour for the Exalted, and although he's very impassioned in the scene, in the very next section, we see him with Ruven, admitting he doesn't give much of a toss either way. I always tend to imagine that it's very easy to annoy Abaddon, but his temper is like a flare: it burns bright, then fades very quickly. The man's a freaking genius, and the blessed of a pantheon of gods, after all. He has more important stuff on his mind.

[Gree]

And we're not talking about any old slap up on "Random forge world Gamma epsilon V". These are multiple GALAXY WIDE campaigns. I'll just let that sink in- the man is able to launch multiple CONCERTED STRIKES with forces consisiting of the entire pantheon of chaos. That's not weakness man, thats the mark of an extremely powerful/scary/insane leader.

 

I know that full well. However look anywhere on pretty much any forum and you'll get ''LOL Abaddon. 13 Black Failures.'' At this point I want to have something that directly demonstrates the qualities that Abaddon should posses.

[Pavement Artist]

I always tend to imagine that it's very easy to annoy Abaddon, but his temper is like a flare: it burns bright, then fades very quickly. The man's a freaking genius, and the blessed of a pantheon of gods, after all. He has more important stuff on his mind.

 

One of the things i like about chaos in fantasy is that their "Grand uniter" is just another in a long line of hard cases that got a con fab going and had a crack at the empire. Abaddon's a brilliant character but i do miss that sense of the god's just not really caring that much about their champions.

 

Gree: Aye, that bit wasn't aimed at you, more at the Abadman naysayers, you seem to get what the character should be about. My issue is that alot of people just look at the black crusades and just see the losses and ignore the bigger picture. Whoever said that the imperium was meant to fall after one or even 13 black crusades? Abaddon might not be entirely aware of it, but it could just so happen that the chaos gods are just chipping away at the imperium. They are immortal, the long game wont be an issue for them.

[Commissar Joe]

Whoever said that the imperium was meant to fall after one or even 13 black crusades? Abaddon might not be entirely aware of it, but it could just so happen that the chaos gods are just chipping away at the imperium. They are immortal, the long game wont be an issue for them.

 

Good point, the gods of Chaos certainly aren't going anywhere! Having said that it's always been my impression that the ultimate purpose of any Black Crusade is to finish what Horus started. By which I mean take Terra, slay the Emperor, destroy the Astronomicon and bring the Imperium into the fold of Chaos.

Considering it took Horus many years to reach Terra during the Heresy it'd be fair to say Abaddon harbors no illusions as to how long it would take to finish what Horus started, but that's still the ultimate goal nonetheless.

[Sons of Horus]

Can I just say... I WANT THIS BOOK!!!

[Yogi]

Whoever said that the imperium was meant to fall after one or even 13 black crusades? Abaddon might not be entirely aware of it, but it could just so happen that the chaos gods are just chipping away at the imperium. They are immortal, the long game wont be an issue for them.

 

Until ADB writes a book justifying Abaddon's in fluff representation, he will still remain a failure. Antichrist or no all he has achieved is stealing some nice gear, the gothic war and Mashing up Cadia. Then he has the stones to speak ill of horus who achieved way more, the same man he followed like a puppy dog up until death. The dudes hopeless. His only good trait is that he is glue for the warbands of chaos. Glue. Wohoo.

 

 

 

Also I really want Blood Reaver...

[Gree]

Until ADB writes a book justifying Abaddon's in fluff representation, he will still remain a failure. Antichrist or no all he has achieved is stealing some nice gear, the gothic war and Mashing up Cadia. Then he has the stones to speak ill of horus who achieved way more, the same man he followed like a puppy dog up until death. The dudes hopeless. His only good trait is that he is glue for the warbands of chaos. Glue. Wohoo.

 

Actually no. We hav't seen much of Abaddon's crusades, we don't know what he's done for most of his crusades. Most of his battles are shrouded in mystery.

[Yogi]

Well I've read one ( i assume the only one) of Angron's crusades he got further (armegeddon) and had a better time of it. IMO

 

I've read two of Abaddons (12 and 13) he did well, but when you pay out horus and are hopeless compared to him you are a failure. Mystery crusades or not he can never equal horus and will never kill a named planet. IIRC some of those crusades are quite minor affairs some not even led by him. Abadabba needs a secondary goal he can achieve that is cool. Like blowing up cadia with his planet killer. Maybe not shooting his own ships for stuffing up. Even the Dow 2 retribution game makes he a arrogant chump unwilling to share the gods favor. Its up to ADB to change that, But to me right now he is set up to fail.

 

This its all going to plan stuff is lame get sword, get fortresses, try to get cadian system. Abby needs to do some serious damage. Make the 8th crusade the one were he took out sixty noname chapters and billions of lives.. Or if you cant do that actually justify why he hasn't done it yet.. otherwise meh.

 

 

I still don't have blood reaver.. sadface.

[Pavement Artist]

Whoever said that the imperium was meant to fall after one or even 13 black crusades? Abaddon might not be entirely aware of it, but it could just so happen that the chaos gods are just chipping away at the imperium. They are immortal, the long game wont be an issue for them.

 

Until ADB writes a book justifying Abaddon's in fluff representation, he will still remain a failure. Antichrist or no all he has achieved is stealing some nice gear, the gothic war and Mashing up Cadia. Then he has the stones to speak ill of horus who achieved way more, the same man he followed like a puppy dog up until death. The dudes hopeless. His only good trait is that he is glue for the warbands of chaos. Glue. Wohoo.

 

 

 

Also I really want Blood Reaver...

 

The last time i checked, chaos forces were still knocking around on cadia. Having a horrible malignant splinter like that lodged within the most key world in the imperium's defence is still a pretty crappy situation. The eye of terror campaign actually was a win for chaos wasnt it?

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

The last time i checked, chaos forces were still knocking around on cadia. Having a horrible malignant splinter like that lodged within the most key world in the imperium's defence is still a pretty crappy situation. The eye of terror campaign actually was a win for chaos wasnt it?

 

GW classified it as a partial victory for Chaos, simply because "rout" was too insulting to the beleagured Imperial masses who were outmaneuvered, outthought, outflanked, and trounced repeatedly throughout that whole fiasco.

[Candleshoes]

His plot to ensnare Talos fails. His plot to plunder Cryrthe fails.

 

Using the word "plot" in the way you do, implies that Abaddon cared, which the way the scene was written, I don't really think he was really invested. The scene with Talos to me was almost like a curiosity being measured, before tiring of it, no more, no less.

 

As far as Crythe, that old chestnut goes back to the conversation Talos prompts him with, when his bias makes the mistake of assuming about the Black Legion Lord. None of us are in a position to know exactly what needed to be gained from the campaign from the cost payed by Abaddon and his peers. His actions are never made lightly, and to judge them so is a mistake.

[Gree]

His plot to ensnare Talos fails. His plot to plunder Cryrthe fails.

 

Using the word "plot" in the way you do, implies that Abaddon cared, which the way the scene was written, I don't really think he was really invested. The scene with Talos to me was almost like a curiosity being measured, before tiring of it, no more, no less.

 

As far as Crythe, that old chestnut goes back to the conversation Talos prompts him with, when his bias makes the mistake of assuming about the Black Legion Lord. None of us are in a position to know exactly what needed to be gained from the campaign from the cost payed by Abaddon and his peers. His actions are never made lightly, and to judge them so is a mistake.

 

He may not have cared, but he certainly planned the attack as a military commander and failed.

 

Well I've read one ( i assume the only one) of Angron's crusades he got further (armegeddon) and had a better time of it. IMO

 

that was'nt a crusade, Angron attacked only Armageddon and nothing else. He never faced the Cadian Gate. He achieved far less sucess than Abaddon did.

 

but when you pay out horus and are hopeless compared to him you are a failure.

 

No, that's not what the quote means. Abaddon was referring to Horus essentially falling to his emotions during the battle of the Emperor. during the last minute Horus suspedly repented for what he had done. I think that's what Abaddon is referring to.

 

However Abaddon's opinion of Horus does not matter when judging his abiity as a military commander.

 

and will never kill a named planet.

 

St. Jothsmane's Hope destroyed. Saveven blown to peices by the planet killer. Stranivar depopulated.

 

All three named planets, I'm sure I can come up with more with research.

 

Abadabba needs a secondary goal he can achieve that is cool. Like blowing up cadia with his planet killer.

 

He can't. He needs it as a base to get out of the Eye.

 

This its all going to plan stuff is lame get sword, get fortresses, try to get cadian system. Abby needs to do some serious damage. Make the 8th crusade the one were he took out sixty noname chapters and billions of lives.. Or if you cant do that actually justify why he hasn't done it yet.. otherwise meh.

 

Abaddon has done serious damage, countless billions, if not trillions slain, entire sectors int he Segmuntum Obscuras devastated. Denying the Blood Angels their geneseed at Mackan and devastating their chapter. You do realize that the Black Crusade are not just concentrated around Cadia right?

[Brother Nihm]

@everyone

 

Please get back on topic, lest ye get a thread about a potentially good book locked. :D

[Dark Mechanicum]

So, Blood Reaver: An awesome book about the Fall of Vilimas with Night Lords doing what they do best and making the bastards :cusse themselves before they show up.

 

I'm excited for this book, hell May just has me BL excited but this book tops the cake. I'm going to buy two. One for reading and one for looking pretty on my bookshelf. Hell, due to how much i've read Soul Hunter I'll need to buy a 2nd copy just to have a "nice" copy of hte book.

[Fimbul]

After Soul Hunter and Throne of Lies I can't wait for Blood Reaver. It's very satisfying to note that there have been some really good Chaos books recently.

[A D-B]

So, Blood Reaver: An awesome book about the Fall of Vilimas with Night Lords doing what they do best and making the bastards :cusse themselves before they show up.

 

For the record, it's not exactly about the Fall of Vilamus. That happens during it, and First Claw are there, but the Night Lords are almost entirely concerned with something much more personal. I asked marketing to change the blurb, but they didn't get 'round to it.

[Pavement Artist]

As long as they still stab stuff, i'm golden.

[Brother Nihm]

As long as they still stab stuff, i'm golden.

This + are Night Lords, then I'm the same. :P