Blood Reaver

[Walter Payton]

To be honest wasn't the conflict between The Exalted and Talos pretty much put to bed at the end of Soul Hunter / beginning of Blood Reaver? Sure it built up in Soul Hunter but it wasn't really there in Blood Reaver, well not for me anyway. So the demise of The Exalted at the end didn't really make me think 'Ohhh no! The rivalry that has been building is gone!'

 

I felt that the conflict between Talos and Vandred was pretty much resolved when Vandred asks Talos to

"trust me, brother,"

in Soul Hunter. Then he does the whole diving Coventant, and the

"Oh woe, are we accidentally in the middle of their firing solution?"

when

Halasker is fleeing the Black Legion.

 

 

P.S: I've yet to pick up Blood Reaver. Do Halasker and the Hunter's Premonition make a reappearance?

[Theis]

...Talos is a seer that only ever sees bad stuff, and it doesn't always come true. He's not a particularly great leader. He's not brilliant at controlling his own squad, let alone (as we'll see) a battle company. He's deluded, which earns him more enemies than friends. He's good to his slaves, which will come back to bite him on the arse soon enough, like all of his "nobler" decisions. He has practically no friends, no comfort, and he's pretty much living with a dull sense of maudlin spite colouring everything he does. His one plan to get the Legion two ships and increase the warband's supplies exponentially ended up losing them the

Covenant of Blood

, and their commander, because Talos's "great" find in another Navigator is pretty bad at her job a lot of the time.

 

Uzas can barely string a sentence together, and no one likes him. He genuinely gets his brothers in trouble and causes them inconvenience in their night-to-night lives. Xarl is a badass, sure, but his brothers can barely relate to him - he's a sentient weapon, and disagrees with Talos all the time. They work together because they're brothers, and that's all. And basically, they survive against immense odds because they usually run away from them. They're not even that lucky, when it comes to the crunch. They hardly ever even win. They just run away.

 

And lastly, Talos had one major vision in Blood Reaver, and that was of everyone

dying, beaten up up by the Eldar

.

So... Nah, I don't really see it. They never triumph. They always just survive. It's not tale of them rising to power and being amazing. It's a tale of them getting through by the skin of their teeth, losing things on the way, and leading to their inevitable decline.

 

Cut out some of the leading quote to narrow in on my point, which devolves down to, they call it self sacrifice for a reason. Which is to say, one of the things I like about your work, is that decisions have consequences for the characters. Nobility means self sacrifice, often enough, and your characters don't have things work out alright in the end, so far, particularly not in a manner that sort of redresses whatever sacrifice they made along the way. So what if Talos is deluded. He operates on the reality he perceives. He does what he believes to be right. He accepts the consequences, not always happily, but he knows where ultimate responsibility lies.

 

After Blood Reaver, I've grown much more fond of Uzas. I like the guy, from this remove. Having caused my squad mates trouble, and having endured the same from them, I can't imagine he'd be any fun to live with. I do think the story of the journey from the Sgt. we see in the Imperial Palace to devotee of the blood god, would be entertaining, in a horrified onlooker sort of way.

 

Other thoughts;

Vandread's ending was freedom. Yeah, hollow victory for the warband, no question. Just returning to where they were as Soul Hunter began will be a challenge. For Vandread though, it was the only victory attainable. This cost to the warband was inevitable in a way, from the moment Vandread began the transformation to the exalted. The timing is particularly inconvenient, but the timing on this sort of thing always is. If Vandread had lost, the Exalted would have eventually gotten them all killed, either from having lost Vandread as a resource, or from just being the Exalted.

 

You were telling us from the word go that the Covenant of Blood was a cursed ship. It was a fitting, inevitable, inconveniently timed end. I like the contrasts in the way you write the two ships by the way. The difference in personalities has the potential to be entertaining.

 

Looking forward to the next novel. I hope, eventually, there'll be more with these characters after that one. There's enough background you've already developed that just plumbing their back stories could prove fun to read about. If anyone lives through the trilogy, well, we'll see won't we?

[Perrin]

P.S: I've yet to pick up Blood Reaver. Do Halasker and the Hunter's Premonition make a reappearance?

Not really, they are mentioned a few times but i think most of Halaskers troops that were picked up swore loyalty to the Exalted.

 

Uzas is one of my favourite characters in the novel now. In Soul Hunter he was just another khorne berserker but he has been given more depth in Blood Reaver.

 

Am i right in thinking that Uzas is trying to use Khorne in the same way that the One Ring in LotR is used? He tried to use Khornes power to suit himself for the best of the Night Lords but it has ended up torturing him and controlling him.

[Quixus]

Am i right in thinking that Uzas is trying to use Khorne in the same way that the One Ring in LotR is used? He tried to use Khornes power to suit himself for the best of the Night Lords but it has ended up torturing him and controlling him.

Aren't all Night Lords doing that with the Powers of Chaos - with varying success?

[hummus]

does the ending of the book remind anyone else of

 

of the ending of blake seven were all the main characters die

 

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

does the ending of the book remind anyone else of

 

of the ending of blake seven were all the main characters die

 

Not a bit, actually. :blink:

[A D-B]

does the ending of the book remind anyone else of

 

of the ending of blake seven were all the main characters die

 

I had to Google that. I know Jim Swallow and Dan Abnett are big fans of that show. They like a lot of the classic 70s/80s BBC sci-fi. I find that secretly bewildering, but adorable.

[hummus]

does the ending of the book remind anyone else of

 

of the ending of blake seven were all the main characters die

 

 

 

here it is www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4a68Sv_r5Qe.com/watch?v

 

[shabbadoo]

Just finished reading this one. Pretty good book overall. Nice to see a sequel live up to its predecessor. Very nice info on the deviousness of the Astral Claws too(and a bit on their background and the Maelstrom too).

[Clewz]

Thoroughly enjoyed this. Especially liked the development of characters like Uzas and the Flayer. Would particularly like to see the history between the latter and first claw get expanded

[Walter Payton]

does the ending of the book remind anyone else of

 

of the ending of blake seven were all the main characters die

 

I had to Google that. I know Jim Swallow and Dan Abnett are big fans of that show. They like a lot of the classic 70s/80s BBC sci-fi. I find that secretly bewildering, but adorable.

 

To be honest, knowing Talos and First Claw, the end of Blackadder Goes Forth would be more appropriate.

[Fimbul]

I don't want to read the entire thread out of risk of spoilers since I haven't completed it yet. However, I just wanted to say: <censored> This book is, out of a lack of a better term, full of win. Awesome job Mr. Dembski-Bowden, AWESOME job.

 

If I'm pulled in by the police due to child neglect, I'll just hand the judge a copy of the book and he'll see that it's justifiable and let me go.

[Sazabi24]

Why exactly was Blood Reaver published more than half a year after the Core?

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Why exactly was Blood Reaver published more than half a year after the Core?

 

Because Fear the Alien was due to be published first and had a tighter deadline.

[A D-B]

Why exactly was Blood Reaver published more than half a year after the Core?

 

I liked it that way. I wanted a short story that hinted at massive changes to come, without giving away how they happened. I've always liked it when writers did that. I dig the retroactive discovery thing.

 

I remember blogging about a year ago to that effect, but since I'm way too lazy to find the link, we'll have to rely on trust.

[Fimbul]

Man .. completed it just now. Reading 300+ pages since my last post probably says quite a bit. One of the very best books published by Black Library imo, the mood, everything is just top notch.

 

A couple of points:

 

 

* Really liked it when Vandred made a reappearance and messed up the the Exalted.

* Getting some glimpses into the mind of the Raptor cult was priceless. Hopefully there will be fewer threads with "Nights Lords army? You need a bunch of Raptors then" B)

* I can't freaking believe that I actually ended up feeling sorry for Hound! I was sad when he died!

* I made some thoughts to myself on Huron, I was surprised at how "kind" he was and I keep wondering if he helped the NL just to get them to help him out, whether out of respect for the old Legions, both or whether he was going to betray them. Like it's said, they never parted on good terms, Huron is sitting on one of their priced ships in addition he gives them quite a bit of gear as well as Ruven.

* My favorite passage so far in the, well, any Chaos BL book, was the exchange between Talos and Ruven when Ruven talked about how the traitor forces could level the Imperium if they just stopped fighting for once. To me, it signified when Talos became the leader he was meant to become, when he wanted to start winning the Charlie Sheen way ;) Then things go tits-up as usual, love it!

 

 

[Ulfast]

First I must say that A D-B has written a wonderful book. I could hardly put it down and was enjoying every moment of the book. It had several good characters and moments, to many to put up here.

 

Some reflection about my thoughts is that I think it was very good to write the book so they felt like "good" guys as I belive very few people see themself as bad ones. They know perhaps that they do bad things but very seldom see themself as bad, rather doing what must be done. So the whole "Mary-Sue" thing is in my eyes a good thing. It show us there view, even if that those not meen I share there views of the world.

 

Second, I liked that we finally got a book about a legion that has made some selfreflecting and see that they have fallen to far, doing nothing. And now is trying to rebuild themself to yet again be a fearsome foe. Sadly this fails but I hope the theme will contuie. I´m a little bit tired of just bad guys trying to a shallow goal like taking a fortress or a ship. Instead I like that they want to rebuild there legion, one bit at a time. I understand now since readin A D-B own words that they will propably not succed which is a let down. But of course I will anyway read the rest, as A D-B writing is very good and all his books so far has been lovley to read.

 

Third, almost all character are intersting and several of there stories can really build themself and become there own books. Personal I hope Urza still wins over his blood desire even if that looks like a lost battle. Nothing like a person fighting his deamons (literary int his case) and get out on the other side.

 

Anyway, a great book, can´t wait for books from you A D-B. And as I was not invited to the wedding I will not buy you a present but at least I bought this book and hope it helps you on your new chapter in your book of life :D Congratulation to your weeding! From one very happy married guy to someon soon to be!

[Lord Ragnarok]

perhaps that they do bad things

I don't even think they conceptualize that they do bad things. They just know they are traitors to an Imperium they hate.

[Marshal Rohr]

Favorite parts of the book:

 

-Flashbacks to the Siege

-Captain Caleb not wanting to be argued with

-The guys seeing the ship head into the warp and jumping off

-Huron's sense of humor

-Talos big brass ones throughout the whole book

-Hound being a total badass

-Talos speech to the slaves

-Lucoryphus inner monologues and dialogue

 

My favorite scene had to be

Variel asking the officer if he knew who he was, then telling him to quarantine the deck, then shooting him when he didnt do it. Then immediately turning to the girl and asking the same thing

I simagined him doing that in Eddie Izzards Jeff Vader skit.

[Volgon]

I thought the entire Caleb/Variel section was great. I mean, a Vindicator, really? Hilarious!

[Warsmith Aznable]

Absolutely loved this book! I was out of town on a weekender and picked this book up with most of what remained of my meager food budget because my local bookstore hasn't had it in, and I didn't regret having to eat off the McDonald's dollar menu because of it. I read almost the entire book while hydrating away a hangover and on the car ride back to Kansas City Sunday afternoon. My favorite line: "We should take these fools everywhere", with "I hope this hurts" coming a close second.

 

I loved

Ruven's

talk with Talos about Abaddon. In a similar vein, I loved the two Night Lords arguing about their own primarch and the Crusade era.

 

Tragedy is all over First Claw and the other heretics in these two books, and I can't get enough of it. I'm made to like people and then watch them die pointless and horrific deaths. I'm shown cruel, pitiless monsters and made to empathize with them. I grimace inwardly at acts of kindness or tolerance because I just know they will be repaid with betrayal and misery. The acts of bravery and courage are either pathetically hopeless, or else motivated by hatred and/or delusion. Or possibly simply gene-forged into the abused psyches of the Space Marine recruit and remain to twist their supposed freedom into bizarre, irrational, and self destructive goals and actions.

 

 

"Talos, I-"

surprised the heck out of me.

 

 

"It is raining, mistress."

felt right, even if I saw it coming and it came as close as anything to feeling "saccharine" (to use a critical word leveled earlier in the thread).

 

 

"You are dead" "That doesn't mean I can't still kill you"

AWESOME! And foreshadowing, I hope. I mean, that has to go somewhere after all that...

 

I cannot wait to see how all this ends!

[Legatus]

I have finally been able to read it.

 

What I liked:

 

- Lucoryphus

 

- Hound

 

-

Seeing other points of view within the Night Lords, other than "we only did what the Emperor wanted and then he backstabbed us". When that was first adressed by Uzas in the corridor I was affraid that this was how A D-B would handle it, feeling that no reader would give much on Uzas' point of view anyway and the perspective on the Night Lords would not really be altered at all. But then later thankfully other characters adressed the issue as well.

 

 

-

The nod to loyalist Codex Marines being much more disciplined and focused than traitors, even than former Codex Marines like the Red Corsairs.

 

 

-

Flashbacks to a sane Sergeant Uzas, and then a brief moment of a clear thinking Uzas during the later chapters of the book.

 

 

-

The flashback to the scene between Talos and his Mother. This retroacttively made the short scene from "Soul Hunter" where he was remembering an encounter with his mother during a parade on Nostramo much more powerful.

 

 

 

What I didn't like:

 

-

Cutesy love story on a Chaos Marine ship. Ugh. I am not opposed to such elements in general, but having such a story with heretic slaves on a Chaos Marine battle ship makes it seem that "life as a slave to Chaos Marines ain't so bad". "Even enslaved to violent killer psychos who like nothing more than slaughtering helpless wretches, one can find moments of happiness..."

 

 

-

A Space Marine fortress monastery being completely defenseless (sorta) every few years when a solar storm flares up. This was part of the original "Fall of Vilamus" fluff, so it's not on A D-B.

 

 

 

Overall I enjoyed the book, and got through it quite fast, which is allways a good sign. Though

I feel that I was mainly interested in what the characters would encounter or do next, not so much in the overarching development of the story. The Character interactions are great, but it feels like the book merely consists of various encounters for them, without there being a larger point or a goal for the protagonists to pursue. During the course of the novel the warband raids a small outpost to stack up on resources, then journeys to a traitor base for further resources/repairs, then goes on a combat mission they themselves are not really interested in, and finally try to grab a significant prize in the form of a second strike cruiser, only for this to be offset by them losing their first ship. We are essentially simply following a warband on their daily routines and watch them get by and survive. It is still entertaining, since as mentioned before the characters and the interactions between them are well written and engaging. But the book is sort of missing a purpose. Somehow I lack the proper words to describe what I mean right now. IIRC I had felt similar about "Soul Hunter", which I also enjoyed, but which also was basically a diary of a battered warband getting by.

Edit: IIRC I felt that "Soul Hunter" had worked as an introduction to the rest of the series, and the lack of a full story line was therefor not an issue. After "Blood Reaver" I still don't feel that the story has fully begun, and that Talos' warband is only just now about to really start their adventures.

 

"Soul Hunter" had been my favourite book with Marines as the protagonists so far, since pretty much every other author seems to be unable to get the interactions between Space Marine characters right. IMVHO of course. A D-B has done a great job with that. But then with Chaos Marines I would expect a slight theatrical/sarcastic/cynic/spiteful demeanour as exhibited in his novels. With a few exceptions of Chaos Marines cracking jokes, or Chaos Marines being kind of nice guys to their slaves, I was very satisfied with his portrayal of Chaos Marines. "Blood Reaver" is a worthy sequel, and I would definitely recommend it.

[wolf2.3]

Edit: Damn spoiler tags won't work

[Lexington]

Sorry to, like, everyone, but it's time for dueling spoiler posts!

 

The Character interactions are great, but it feels like the book merely consists of various encounters for them, without there being a larger point or a goal for the protagonists to pursue. During the course of the novel the warband raids a small outpost to stack up on resources, then journeys to a traitor base for further resources/repairs, then goes on a combat mission they themselves are not really interested in, and finally try to grab a significant prize in the form of a second strike cruiser, only for this to be offset by them losing their first ship. We are essentially simply following a warband on their daily routines and watch them get by and survive.

 

See, for me, the point of the novel was underneath all of that - the superficial events of the series only make sense as a story when tied together with the internal struggles of the characters. Soul Hunter is about a warband trapped in a self-destructive cycle. The Covenant of Blood is a cursed ship right of nautical legend, crewed by the damned, abandoned by a father whose indifference they can't accept. There's a running theme of prisons, of enslavement, of being gnawed away into oblivion by one's own personal demons.

The plot of the novel revolves around the Exalted nearly driving 10th Company into annihilation just to please the Despoiler, only to pull away at the last second due to Talos' actions. Blood Reaver's the logical progression from that - characters begin to break away from the things that bind them, and 10th Company rises from defeat and inaction to take control of itself, and pull out of the mental and physical tailspin they've been in for centuries. Even Vandred, lost and defeated within the confines of his own mind, finally frees himself for one final act of vengeance, destroying himself, the daemon that's enslaved him and the cursed vessel that's been 10th Company's prison. It's a rebirth (to use the most cliche'd, irritating Lit Teacher Speak) for all of the characters, and the end finds the survivors of 10th Company in a new but precarious position - Talos leads them now, but to what end?

 

 

From that angle, I think the series so far's been an amazing achievement, and a high point for the 40K universe as a whole. Of course, at the same time, I could just be seeing things where things ain't, but it seems like something of the like is going on in these novels.

[Legatus]

The characters have made personal progress. But what has the warband achieved over the course of two novels? In both books they have survived for another short period of time, and they had secured resourced to keep going. What was the specific plot achievement at the end of Soul Hunter? The warband got a new navigator. What was the plot achievement at the end of Blood Reaver? The warband changed to another ship, and Talos has now succeeded the Exalted. The novels are very atmospheric, and it is interesting enough to read about the day to day troubles of a warband trying to get by. But so far I feel there isn't more to the story than the warband getting by. The novels' greatest contribution is certainly the insight into the Night Lords Legion, and that there are varying points of view about the Legion and their Primarch within their ranks, even if that had not really been adressed in the first book and was adressed perhaps a bit too subtly in the second. And I fear this contribution may be offset a bit by the novels describing the life of a Chaos Marine slave as entirely bearable, and Chaos Marines occasionally having a soft spot underneath their hard shell.