Dualhammers Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 So I was reading some articles about STCs and Geneseed development and how these advancements in technology are now relatively clouded in mystery and superstition in the 41-42nd Millennium, but I am a little confused about some things. Geneseed is something the Emperor created but is now a secret lost to the ages - we can use it but we don't know how the Emperor created, right? So that would mean it was a great technological marvel, much like the great technologies of the Dark Age of Technology. This confuses me however, because the Dark Age of Technology - where STCs and other advancements come from including it from Power Armor - was long over by the time of the Emperor. How, then, was the Emperor able to create new technologies if he was living in a similarly backward time as we have now? Was he trying to revive the Dark Age of Technology or am I missing something? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
snorkle Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 He was THE EMPEROR. He lived in the Dark Ages of Technology. Do you really think he forgot any of the tech from then? I highly doubt it. Even marines have photographic memories so he probably had a holographic memory. Also he was one of the tech-savviest humans to ever live so inventing new stuff was hardly beyond him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2690431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dualhammers Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 So when he died we lost all that technology? IE. He never wrote anything down? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2690441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 He ascended to teh golden throne 10000 years ago, plenty of time for technology and science to become superstition and magic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2690541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 So when he died we lost all that technology? IE. He never wrote anything down? Well, why write stuff down? Enemies and wannabe usurpers might then turn the immortal-guy-with-epic-memory's shiny toys against him. :P Besides, it's not like he needed to consider leaving things to improve his Empire just in case half of his most powerful warriors turned against him and practically killed him. Oh, wait... -_- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2690571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The Emperor is not dead by the way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2690700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 ... He just went home. Why is it i seem to be coming out with the wierdness at the moment? Back to op- it still took the emperor and the best scientists on earth a few hundred years to collect samples, create the genecode and get it to work. He wasn't just taking something old but creating something new. Same as power armour, the daot didn't have pa, the imperium invented and developed it from scratch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2690785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Actually no... Mark 1 "Thunder Armour"This is the type of armour worn by the techno-barbarian factions that dominated the Earth prior to the Emperor's ascendancy. When the Emperor began the conquest of Earth, the proto-Space Marines which formed part of his retinue were armoured in the same way as the warriors of the other warlords. A thunderbolt and lightning symbol was displayed on the breastplate of warriors loyal to the Emperor - this was the personal badge of the Emperor in those days, predating the Imperial Aquila which only became the symbol of the Imperium much later. The emblem gives the suit its common name – Thunder Armour. There was power armor before the Imperium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2690791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Powered armour, but not power armour. A bit like saying a ford model T was the first F1 racecar... Power armour was developed by combining various newly rediscovered techs into something new. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2690925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Thunder Armor is Mark I Power Armor. Everything since, Mark II+, was just improvements on the basic design. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2691359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Fisting Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Thunder Armor is Mark I Power Armor. Everything since, Mark II+, was just improvements on the basic design. Nope. MkII onwards is actually quite different than MkI. MkI wasn't enclosed. MkI wasn't "hooked up" via fiber bundles and the black carapace. Space Marines didn't wear MkI. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2691395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Whether or not Space Marines wore a specific armor was not the question (even though they did actually wear Mark I). And as I pointed out, and you added to, Mark II and beyond were improvements on the original armor. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/5/5e/Mk1power_armor.JPG Space Marine in Mark I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2691402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Fisting Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Actually no... Mark 1 "Thunder Armour"This is the type of armour worn by the techno-barbarian factions that dominated the Earth prior to the Emperor's ascendancy. When the Emperor began the conquest of Earth, the proto-Space Marines which formed part of his retinue were armoured in the same way as the warriors of the other warlords. A thunderbolt and lightning symbol was displayed on the breastplate of warriors loyal to the Emperor - this was the personal badge of the Emperor in those days, predating the Imperial Aquila which only became the symbol of the Imperium much later. The emblem gives the suit its common name – Thunder Armour. There was power armor before the Imperium. techno-barbarians & proto- space marines. "Proto" is the predecessor of. So, no, Space Marines didn't wear it, and, no, it wasn't power armor as it lacked the fiber bundles and black carapace, two ESSENTIAL elements of power armor. Yes it was a precursor to power armor, but not actual power armor like the Space Marines wore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2691406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Then why is that UM wearing it then? Mark I was used to take the Earth, only later when they needed space worthy armor was it altered into the Mark II. EDIT: Back on topic to OP original question, advancements in tech still happens ... thus we have Mark VIII armor now, along with other improved equipment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2691410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Fisting Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 It's an Ultramarine wearing it because the artwork doesn't follow the fluff (or perhaps the Ultra symbol on that dude is a predecessor to the Ultramarines symbol). Yes, I know it was used to take the earth, worn by the Emperor's Proto-Marines, then when He perfected His Space Marines, He equipped them with MkII and they began retaking the galaxy. EDIT: Here's a quote about MkII Crusade Armor: "the factories on Mars were set to work constructing a new type of armour for the Emperor's elite Space Marines"... So, it wasn't even revamped MkI, it specifically says it was a new type of armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2691419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dualhammers Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 I don't think arguing how MK I armor is different from MK II armor and who wore what is really helping answer this question. I already knew some technology survived and I think people made it clear that the Emperor - having lived through the DAoT - would have carried most of that information inside him. Why he didn't write it down seems a little flimsy but I will accept it. He ascended to teh golden throne 10000 years ago, plenty of time for technology and science to become superstition and magic. I will also accept this with an 'eh, alright' and leave it at that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2691503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mordray Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Power Armour by mark basic descriptions and concepts... from memory... mk I - Emperor's copy of the techno-barbarian created powered armor*. Having been developed for use on earth the mk I was only a partial suit of Power armor meant to augment the upper body strength of the wearer for the purposes of hand to hand combat... (which demonstrates that who ever wrote that didn't know how to fight... you need your legs too last I check... and no I'm not talking mma lvl combat.) The Mk I suit is often associated with armored pants, however these were unpowered and offered no aid to the wearer in carrying the weight of the Mk I's hardware and power supply... (Yet another failing of the old fluff... these things had a lot of hardware and armor supported by a pair of unbraced human legs...) Mk II+ - created with the aid of the Admech these suits were full power armor* as even the legs were now enhanced. These suits were also the first to be fully enclosed for full EBA (Enviromental Battle Armor) status. * - Powered armor by it's nature is a suit of armor that assists the wearer. The most forms provide little more then countering their own weight. More advanced versions effectively act as force multipliers. A black carapace is not needed for a suit of armor to be classed as power armor (were that the case then the SoB, Inquisition and various other agents of the Imperium wouldn't be able to use it either). Astartes power Armor is simply the most advanced form of PA currently in use by the Imperium it is not the only form. There is to my knowledge no specification as to when the black-carapace was implemented... for all I know the proto-marines (which last I checked had become the Custodians) had it as well and used it to interface with the Mk I... without a hard bit of fluff to say one way or the other I have no clue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2691525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I say blame it all on Mars and the AdMech. Some tech has been lost, some made mythical, while others are in a constant state of advancement. Most of the lost and mythical are Mars produced, while those made by others are being modified and advanced. I give the PA and weapons as an example of this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2691560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dualhammers Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 Or we can just keep arguing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2691570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Or we can just keep arguing. That's what we do best here on the Liber :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2691573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I say blame it all on Mars and the AdMech. Some tech has been lost, some made mythical, while others are in a constant state of advancement. Most of the lost and mythical are Mars produced, while those made by others are being modified and advanced. I give the PA and weapons as an example of this. this has never sat well with me. GW bang on about the whole 'Stagnation of Technology' thing, but Space marine armour and weapons are forever being improved, modified or customised in a variety of ways. It seems some technologies are open to be exploited while others are confined to being viewed as little more than magic. It doesn't make sense. The very mentality required to design, construct and enhance power armour would be the kind of mentality to re-discover the ability to build terminator armour, as it is effectively a heavy version of PA with stronger materials and an Exoskeleton. It would not be a giant leap to figure it out. Darkchild Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2691766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Not a giant leap. But given its taken the ad mech 10,000yrs to figure out neck armour on pa, they're barely managing baby steps at the moment... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224905-technology-level-during-the-great-crusade/#findComment-2691879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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