Gentlemanloser Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Mat Ward says: Crowe's an unusual special character, with a sword he doesn't really use, and rules that empower his enemies, so why take him? Because he's a killing machine once in close combat, that's why. Essentially, Crowe combines all the best bits of Purifiers (Cleansing Flame) and Brotherhood Champions (the Perfect Warrior battle stances), making him a fantastic counter to both hordes and elites. In addition, Crowe's close combat attacks are rending on a roll of 4+. That'll put pretty much anything down. No... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearden441 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Mat Ward says: Crowe's an unusual special character, with a sword he doesn't really use, and rules that empower his enemies, so why take him? Because he's a killing machine once in close combat, that's why. Essentially, Crowe combines all the best bits of Purifiers (Cleansing Flame) and Brotherhood Champions (the Perfect Warrior battle stances), making him a fantastic counter to both hordes and elites. In addition, Crowe's close combat attacks are rending on a roll of 4+. That'll put pretty much anything down. No... eh if it was an IC I could see the rules fitting him more, but as he stands now i agree with you....... no Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2690743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Crowe's close combat attacks are rending on a roll of 4+. That'll put pretty much anything down. I love that bit especially. What with his spectacular 1 attack for any mini in B2B with him? Don't you mean he has a 50% change to cuase a wound that might be saved by any Invulnerable saves... Not anywhere near potent enough to 'put pretty much anything down'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2690751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 From what I've read Crowe seems to be one of those characters that was probably really cool until they went about creating the others.. Like Crowe was V1.0 of the 'dex whilst everyone else ended up 2.0+ :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2690756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 So does he actually say anything about Crowe's IC-status (or lack thereof)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2690761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Because he's a killing machine once in close combat, that's why. How do you get him there Matt? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2690773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I can see his point, though. Let's say Crowe assault a regular SM squad (10 guys, sarge w/powerfist, ML, meltagun): Cleansing flame will kill 1.7 marines. He then uses an attack stance on the 6 SMs around him, hitting on 3+ w/ re-roll so 5.3 times, wounding 2.6 times w/rending, killing 2.6 marine. Let's say he killed 4 marines with the sarge having survived the Cleasing Flame. They then proceed to hit back: 5 guys hit 2.5 times, wound 1.25 times, 0.2 times after saves. The sarge attacks, once, hits 0.5 times, wounds 0.4 times, 0.2 times unsaved (but crowe is instakilled). All in all, 1/5th of the time Crowe dies, 4/5th of the time he wins combat by 3-4 and the SM squad breaks. with Ini 6, he catches up to them and they take an extra "no retreat" wound. Rinse and repeat. So not only does he unlock purifiers, he can take a 200+pts squad by himself! Next example: Let's say Crowe assaults the much feared assault termies! (5 guys, 3 hammer, 2 claws): Cleansing flame will kill 1 termi (let's assume claw as I think hammers are better at killing Crowe). He then uses an attack stance on the 5 termies around him, hitting on 3+ w/ re-roll so 4.4 times, wounding 2.2 times killing 0.7 hammernators. Let's say he killed 2 Terms (1 LC 1 TH/SS). They then proceed to hit back: 3 claw attacks, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1 times, 0.5 after Iron halo saves. The hammer attacks 4 times, hits twice, wounds 1.6 times, 0.8 after IH saves (Instakill). So Crowe will die 80% of the time but wins by 1 (if lucky!) against one of the most feared CC unit in the game! Next example: Let's say you kept Crowe where he belong: the backfield! Now, a Nasty Trygon pops out of the gound near your scoring 4 psycannon purifiers near an objective! No problem! Send in Crowe! He assaults but uses the rapier strike! Roll a d3.... 2! So 3 attacks at Ini 10, hits 2.6 times, wounds 1.3 times for 1.3 wounds. The trygon attacks 6 times, hits 3 times, wounds 2.5 times, 1.25 after saves. Tie!!! Hopefully, though, the Trygon will finally kill Crowe (because those heartless purifier always kept shooting towards the front!), but Crowe will then bring the Trygon with him 66% of the time! ACtually, if the Trygon had killed Crowe on the first turn, Crowe would have re-rolled that attack, killing the trygon 89% of the time! All in all, Crowe is an good (not great!) countercharger that has the tremendous ability to make your purifier troops. If used properly (and then GKs, as I like to say are Codex: Eldar Marines, hard to use), he's good enough to include in competitive builds. Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2690784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Can you really expect to get 5 Termies around him? What happens if the minis killed by Cleansing Flame are removed form those in B2B with him? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2690786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I did forget to remove a termi from around him after CF! He would kill 0.6 TH/SS termi instead of 0.7 :P He stills kills 1-2 termies. Of course, my example is just to show how he can participate even against a unit that is generally considered the hardest in the game. Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2690802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 ;) Same for the Marines though! And it owuld make more of an impact there! And really, any opponent would have to be out of thier mind to send a massive CC monster into Crowe, without just shotting him dead first! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2690806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 So did Ward comment on Crowe's status as a Non-IC or are you just going to fill your own thread with whining? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2690812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inache Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 It's from the GW advance orders. All the models got little blurbs. There's nothing else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2690817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I see it now, since nobody provided a link I'd assumed it was from a new White Dwarf or something. ;) Still holding out hope they'll make Crowe an IC in an FAQ or something. Until then, he will be in my casual games. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2690818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 ;) Same for the Marines though! And it owuld make more of an impact there! And really, any opponent would have to be out of thier mind to send a massive CC monster into Crowe, without just shotting him dead first! :P For the marines, I did keep the full 6 attacks because I assumed models in the back would be taken out. Good question, though. If my opponent had taken away 2 marines in BtB, i might have use another stance (like the shield one). The marines would have done 0.03 (!) wounds, the sarge 0.2 wounds (2 attacks, 1 hit, 0.8 wound re-roll IH save). So Crowe wins by two, 80% of the time! Remember, I not trying to say Ward is right in saying Crowe will kill any unit. I'm saying he has a reasonable chance of winning/holding, by himself, against units worth 30-40% more points! All in all, he's not "utter rubbish" bought only to unlock purifier and then hide. He's a very good home base defender. If I'd used him in conjunction with a units of 5 purifier counter attacking, he can take down almost any unit. Imagine 2 CF against that 30 orks mob! Is one big flaw is that you must be very careful not to have him assaulted. All in all, he's still the character tht you'll see the most. As for the MC, they might not have a choice. You have a 12" radius of homebase watching with a Crowe that has a 4+ cover save, 2+ standard save... And if he's down to 1 wound, he's even more dangerous in CC vs MCs! Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2690822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Still holding out hope they'll make Crowe an IC in an FAQ or something. However, because he is not an Independent Character, Crowe must always fight alone. Sorry to burst your bubble Marmande, but it's never going to happen. People whined and pined for the new Blood Angel characters to be IC's but that didn't happen either. These characters are meant to fight alone, and so they will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2691017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Still holding out hope they'll make Crowe an IC in an FAQ or something. However, because he is not an Independent Character, Crowe must always fight alone. Sorry to burst your bubble Marmande, but it's never going to happen. People whined and pined for the new Blood Angel characters to be IC's but that didn't happen either. These characters are meant to fight alone, and so they will. Yep. Just like what Ward did in the BA dex (and I think it was a mistake there too, characters should be ICs but reduce their rules to keep them from being overpowered). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2691022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Anyone notice the REDEMPTIONSWORD written on his shoulder pad? I chuckled, then wept. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2691023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Black Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Anyone notice the REDEMPTIONSWORD written on his shoulder pad? I know. Its like he needs a reminder of what weapon he is using. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2691043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 So did Ward comment on Crowe's status as a Non-IC or are you just going to fill your own thread with whining? More resignation than anything over silly developer comments. And utter confusion over how he's trying to portray and defend this new character. I guess it'll just be seen as whinning though. Still, as said in another thread, using the defense stance after using Cleansing Flame might be a nice way of running him. Providing he doesn't always get shot to bits before being able to get to CC that is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2691051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Rik Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 It's from the GW advance orders. All the models got little blurbs. There's nothing else. Let's not forget that these little blurbs are on the website for a reason - to encourage people to impulse buy them. Not to give you something to analyse about a character's abilities in combat. It's a business trick to encourage you to click "Add to basket" as you are browsing, read it and go "that sounds cool *click*" without getting your codex out and mathhammering the possibilites. It doesn't mean that they are awesome units, as they will never put the bad aspects of a unit on these blurbs. They will try to sell the models by trying to make them sound great, even if they aren't actually great on the tabletop. It's called business, and capitalism. (Now that will bring on a load of whining about GW being unscrupulous and taking your money like all businesses in the capitalist world we live in do, but if you want to whine about that, go ahead. I'd just like to make it clear that wasn't my point.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2691057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 However, because he is not an Independent Character, Crowe must always fight alone. Sorry to burst your bubble Marmande, but it's never going to happen. People whined and pined for the new Blood Angel characters to be IC's but that didn't happen either. These characters are meant to fight alone, and so they will. Will you guys STOP quoting things and providing a link? Jesus... ^_^ EDIT: I see it now, but seriously guys, that's just bad (internet) etiquette. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2691061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Calm yourself, Marmande. This is not something to get so heated up about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2691084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I understand, really I do, but seriously. Bad enough Crowe is as bad as we feared he'd be (seriously, Draigo has more justification rules- AND fluff-wise), but it's annoying to hear about it and not be able to see it for yourself. I guess at least a Grandmaster can make him Scoring. That's literally it. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2691091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 You cannot hyperlink to the GW site anyway. It redirects you to the home page. How hard is it for you to go on GW site yourself and go to the advance orders section and read it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2691117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I understand, really I do, but seriously. Bad enough Crowe is as bad as we feared he'd be (seriously, Draigo has more justification rules- AND fluff-wise), but it's annoying to hear about it and not be able to see it for yourself. I guess at least a Grandmaster can make him Scoring. That's literally it. :P I really can't wrap my mind around "Crowe Sucks"... He isn't great, but the way I see it, he's the best GK SC... Let's look at it like this: -I'd pay 50 pts to make my purifiers scoring (let's say via some banner or by paying 15pts/units or etc). -In that sense, I feel like Crowe costs me 100pts. -For 100 pts, I've got a guy that can go toe-to-toe with a similar 100pts SM captain and will probably beat him. Even if the SM captain charges and get FC and re-rolls, I can "turtle up" and weather the attack. Even if he does kill me, I bring him with me most of the time. Heck, Marneus Calgar, Drago or any other similar SC would fear him in CC because even if they win, they lose 66% of the time (88% if they kill Crowe the turn he charges!) -I've also got a guy that can kill 12-13 Orks in a mob before the CC even begins or bring the Klaw nobz down to hell, leaving that big blob neutered. The price I've got to pay for this is that I must not let him be shot down (with a 2+/4+ save, I should be able to do that - or even keep him out of LOS or in reserves or outflanking w/scout!). It's better (not crucial) that I assault rather than be assaulted (which is true of almost any unit in 40K). I say better, because even if I get assault by a dedicated assault unit (bar assault termies and their 3++ save), I'll drag the same amount of point down with me either through CF or Heroic Sacrifice. Is he the great "must always take him" Crowe? No. But does he "Suck badly"? Also no! I'd rather have him than "break the bank cuz I cost the same as 10 purifiers w/psycannons Draigo" My two cents on Crowe! Phil Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224923-matt-ward-on-crowe/#findComment-2691141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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