Matt Ward on Crowe

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Dude, it's not worth trying to make him work, it's a waste of time. Hide him behind your advancing Rhino wall, if the enemy ignores him it's their problem when he finally waddles into their lines.

 

Someone else suggested using him to guard fire support Dreadnoughts from close-combat interception. It's a somewhat worthwhile use of him (although I'd hesitate to say he's 'good' at it).

[FerociousBeast]

Is he the great "must always take him" Crowe? No. But does he "Suck badly"? Also no! I'd rather have him than "break the bank cuz I cost the same as 10 purifiers w/psycannons Draigo"

 

My two cents on Crowe!

I agree. On his own, Crowe isn't Mephiston good, but he's not horrible either. And add in the Purifiers-as-troops bit, and we may well be seeing complaints in a few months of Crowe being broken.

 

I think there are definitely things to complain about in this codex, but some people just latch onto anything, it seems, because some random dude on the Internet bitched about it first. Crowe is not one of the bad things in this book, in my opinion.

[number6]

+1 to FerociousBeast. :angry:

 

Frankly, I find it shocking that some players -- e.g., Reclusiarch Darius

 

Dude, it's not worth trying to make him work, it's a waste of time.

 

are apparently comfortable just throwing away 150 pts. In the GK army. An army that everybody recognizes is seriously pinched for points.

 

If you can't actually make Crowe an integral part of your army list -- as in, a purposeful, important part of your offensive (or defensive) approach -- than it seems to me you've got a broken army list.

 

It is not worth paying "the Crowe tax" just to get Purifiers as Troops. There has to be more than that. Our core Troops are just fine, actually. And can be used in competitive army lists as they are. You don't need Purifiers to make the GK army function.

[boreas]

It's kind of the whole vide for the community. It's like we didn't have a new codex for so long that anything that is even marginally "sub-par" (like falchions on termies) is considered "Absolutely Worthless". Let's define "Absolutely Worthless", shall we? "Absolutely Worthless" means that it has no value of any kind in any situation at all. Now, Crowe is a fun Character (as characters should be). He's almost more of a "Roleplay" dude than a wargaming dude. He's ment to be uesd for fun, not to build that WAAC purifier list so that gamers can get revenge for now having a new dex for 8 years by trashing you local guys.

 

I got into WH/DH because they were fun and cool. I understand that WH40k is wargaming and that it must be competitive. But it's ok if there are some option that are "not as optimal", because they are fun. Could they have been optimal and fun? Yes. But WH40k has never been perfect, no codex is and I'm pretty sure none will ever be. Still, the whole vibe in the GK community is pretty depressing...

 

Phil

[Daedalus Templarius]

Crowe got himself left behind in the game I played this weekend (7500 vs 7500, 5 players), the stormraven he was in didn't come in till turn 3, then was promptly shot out of the air by a manticore rocket.

 

I think I'd rather take draigo or a libby, then load my rhinos up with strike squads instead, since they can take psycannons just the same as purifiers I believe. Definitely need to put a libby inside of a SR vs a huge gunline of IG... or not take it at all.

[Galadren]

You know, I read Crowe's rules and I just get angry every time. Like this little surge of hate in my heart. I want him to be good, to be useful. I like to use my HQ's and Crowe's rules pretty much prevent this.

 

Libby? Awesome.

GM? Awesome. Grand Strategy is Winning!

Brotherhood Champion? Not bad, he's a Chaplain.

Draigo? Expensive, but him and a squad of Paladins will make your opponent worry, especially when Draigo eats a few lascannons and keeps on smiling.

 

Crowe? Yeah...

[Tech-Priest]

It may just be the list I'm going to use but it seems to me almost everything in my list cost about as much as Crowe if not alot more...

 

So if my opponent wants to focus fire on him allowing the rest of my army to do as it pleases I'm happy.

 

So lascannons aimed at Crowe (150 pts) or aimed at a storm raven filled with a 10 man purifier squad (495 pts)

[CheezeFezt]

Question for me would be why use Crowe over vanilla Champion?

 

Champion is an IC, so can attach to a unit and enhance them on the charge. Crowe can't.

Champion has the anointed blade, a power weapon. With hammerhand, he would wound 3+ vs "marine toughness" or 2+ vs other. Plus they get to re-roll failed to-wound. Plus, vs multi-wound, he can attempt to activate the force weapon to ID (if the hammerhand was activated by the unit instead of the champion).

 

Crowe get this awesome rend on 4+. So vs marine, he wound on 4+ instead of 3+ with re-roll. Vs hordey it's 4+ vs 2+. He can't ID multi-wound. Even though Crowe wound on 4+ vs T6, a champion wound on 5+ with re-roll wound would actually wound more often (55% champion vs 50%). Only against T7 or higher would Crowe come out ahead. I believe the Wraithlord is the only T7+?

 

So the only thing that Crowe come out ahead is allowing you to spam purifier squads. Which would only be an advantage if you take more than 3 of them. I have a hard time paying 50 pt more to take Crowe over vanilla Champion.

[number6]

It may just be the list I'm going to use but it seems to me almost everything in my list cost about as much as Crowe if not alot more...

 

So if my opponent wants to focus fire on him allowing the rest of my army to do as it pleases I'm happy.

 

So lascannons aimed at Crowe (150 pts) or aimed at a storm raven filled with a 10 man purifier squad (495 pts)

The trick, of course, is convincing your opponent that this is a real choice. Crowe actually can be scary. But using him properly requires coordination with multiple other units in your army. Otherwise you really will just be throwing him away.

[Zhukov]

*sigh* So many people just seem to insist that Crowe is not that bad. He's horrible. Why?

 

He's 150 points which might do nothing too many games. That includes drawing fire: He doesn't do that well. You know what kind of unit can justify himself dying each time while he didn't do a thing? A Dreadknight; who will absorb WAY more fire than Crowe, for example.

You know where he excells at when he finally gets to do something? Owning hordes and potentially killing an expensive model. Guess what Purifiers are good at? Indeed, the same!

 

So basicly he's an expensive lasscannon catcher and when he gets to do something it's not that amazing either... Pass please. (as a character, let's look at the whole picture now)

 

Ignoring the 'purifiers as troops' for moment: 50 points I would be willing to pay for him I think... Yeah he's that bad really, being an extra kill-point is part of the problem.

 

Is he worth it for making Purifiers troops then? Nope. I wrote a post on this so read it if you want to know why; not gonna write it again here:

http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/04/...ey-knights.html

 

Just my opinion, don't feel offended by it :ermm:

[Gentlemanloser]

As has been mentioned elsewhere, A GK army can't afford any excess points. We're streached enough as it is.

 

Crowe, just isn't worth it. Never is.

 

He's not worth using as a 'Tax' on Purifiers, and he doesn't bring anything of worth himself for him to be more than a Tax.

 

He can't DS. He's not mobile. He doesn't synergise with the rest of the army. If you want to HS something, take a BC and stick him *in* a Purifier Squad. Or just spend those 150 points on 5 more Purifiers to go Cleansing Flame a Horde.

 

Sure, go nuts if you want a fun and fluffy all Puri list, or want to show off the lone GK Champion. Whatever floats your boat and you and your opponent enjoy!

 

But by design? Even using a GM to outflank him, if you want that, stump up the extra point for Mordrak and do it better. And potentially cheaper.

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

As has been mentioned elsewhere, A GK army can't afford any excess points. We're streached enough as it is.

 

Crowe, just isn't worth it. Never is.

 

He's not worth using as a 'Tax' on Purifiers, and he doesn't bring anything of worth himself for him to be more than a Tax.

 

He can't DS. He's not mobile. He doesn't synergise with the rest of the army. If you want to HS something, take a BC and stick him *in* a Purifier Squad. Or just spend those 150 points on 5 more Purifiers to go Cleansing Flame a Horde.

 

Sure, go nuts if you want a fun and fluffy all Puri list, or want to show off the lone GK Champion. Whatever floats your boat and you and your opponent enjoy!

 

But by design? Even using a GM to outflank him, if you want that, stump up the extra point for Mordrak and do it better. And potentially cheaper.

 

You have to look at him as a CC assassin who happens to fill an HQ spot and unlocks Purifiers as troops... that's really the single best way to justify him and what he does.

 

If I'm ever thinking about taking an Eversor or a Callidus, I would strongly consider going Crowe instead, with the added benefit of going with Purifiers to fill troops on FOC requirement. Allows you a ton of flexibility in building the rest of your list since HQ and Troops are covered by two elite squads and an assassin.

[Gentlemanloser]

The CC assassins suck. :)

[ChaosPhoenix]

*sigh* So many people just seem to insist that Crowe is not that bad. He's horrible. Why?

 

He's 150 points which might do nothing too many games. That includes drawing fire: He doesn't do that well. You know what kind of unit can justify himself dying each time while he didn't do a thing? A Dreadknight; who will absorb WAY more fire than Crowe, for example.

You know where he excells at when he finally gets to do something? Owning hordes and potentially killing an expensive model. Guess what Purifiers are good at? Indeed, the same!

 

So basicly he's a go which might an expensive lasscannon catcher and when he gets to do something it's not that amazing either... Pass please. (as a character, let's look at the whole picture now)

 

Ignoring the 'purifiers as troops' for moment: 50 points I would be willing to pay for him I think... Yeah he's that bad really, being an extra kill-point is part of the problem.

 

Is he worth it for making Purifiers troops then? Nope. I wrote a post on this so read it if you want to know why; not gonna write it again here:

http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/04/...ey-knights.html

 

Just my opinion, don't feel offended by it :)

 

I agree and I'm "not the anything thats not uber is worthless"-kinda guy. When comparing him with Mephiston, the one real advantage Mephiston as single model has is that he can move 12" per round.