Minsc Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 When I first went trough the BA Codex and my eyes fell on Lemartes, my initial thought was "jeez what a piece of garbage he is for XXX pts", but now I noticed that he's not an IC, and suddenly he seems alot better. Obviously he's a no go for Death Company in Rhinos/Drop Pods/Land Raiders, and I'd say fielding Death Company on foot/with jump packs isn't the best way to field them, but what about when you field them in Stormravens? (which seems to be a good combination). What's overall the best between a regular Reclusiarch and Lemartes in a Stormraven? I've never had the pleasure of fielding Lemartes in a regular game yet, and there's only so much theoryhammer to be done. Reclusiarch pro's: 20 points cheaper. +1 Wound +1 Attack Takes 1 less slot in the Stormraven. (+1 BS - usually irrelevant) Lemartes pro's: +1 I Mastercrafted weapon. Gains reroll his own to-wound rolls as well. Feel No Pain, Furious Charge included, no need for a Priest. Not a IC, so can hide from powerfists. Free's up a HQ choice. Fury Unbound - this looks great on paper, and if you manage to get it off, he's a better meléemonster than Khârn, and without killing his own guys! (Relentless is irrelevant as a pro, but so is Rage as a con.) So, to you guys who have experience in fielding Lemartes, what would you rather use in a Stormraven, alongside 10(11) Death Company with a Thunder Hammer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Lemmy - no contest. Frees up an HQ slot and is not targetable in combat. Lemmy, lemmy. He doesnt have one less wound than the reclusiarch by the way, he has one wound per 20points you pay :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2691120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I go Lemmy every time I field DC. Even though I field them kind of old-school with JP and a few PW here and there, with Lemmy, they rock. You've already mentioned all of the pro's abd con's and I think that freeing up a HQ slot and not being able to be targeted by PF/TH/Monstrous Creatures and so on is awesome. I had the good one fighting against a wolflord and his gang, the DC cared about the WG, and Lemmy took on the Lord(Lemartes was down to one wound, though). DC charged, Lemmy killed off the Lord(who had a 3++ shield, by the way - the sheer number of attacks was too much for him) and when the dust had settled my friends consolidated towards the next enemy - to be honest, me and my opponent were stunned. Me, because from that point the battle was almost won, he, because he couldn't believe what just happened. In short, Lemartes is Mephiston's little brother when it comes down to carnage, but has some special rules which make him more viable in some ways than Meph. I'd take Lemartes over a Reclusiarch any day. Snorri Edit: fixed an error. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2691155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Lemmy is better, if you are going to field another HQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2691160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMouth Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 LEMMY!!!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2691185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redo Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Lemmy from me too! Yeah you have to pay for Lemmy's JP but you have still got 10 spots left and his benefits outweigh his few drawbacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2691206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Lemmy is the best choice hands down. G :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2691231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I've always been curious how you get Lemmy to lose that wound. Do you just allocate the first wound in shooting to him and go "haha"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2692124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Lemmy would be great if you could take his jump pack off =/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2692132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 I've always been curious how you get Lemmy to lose that wound. Do you just allocate the first wound in shooting to him and go "haha"? I assume you allocate a wound each time the death company takes some hits, and hope that he fail his save(s). <_< Suffering a plasma (or rending/powerweapon) hit would be the best since you 'only' get the Rosarius save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2692157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 In the few games I've used Lemartes and DC, the first wound every time gets allocated to Lemartes (as long as its not ID of course) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2692166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Lemmy would be great if you could take his jump pack off =/ You gotta elaborate on that one. Lemartes has always been Jump Infantry. When he is the last man standing his JP comes into play if you attach him to foot-slogger crazies. I defeated a DE Archon with Retinue and despite killing my last DC, they still broke and ONLY because Lemartes had a JP did he run them down. Had he not been able to, they would've rallied and possibly put the hurt on him next round. Besides, if you only give him a small JP hitman force ala 5 with Bolters, a PF and a TH they can wreak havoc and possibly roll-up an enemy flank of tanks while the main force is occupied front and center. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2692177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I'm just not that high on the new rules, but I seem to remember one problem with that. Mustn't you then allocate all the wounds to the same model? I recall this became an issue when people started using Thousand Sons, and you had to kill the squad twice due to allocating wounds to a different model. Or something. If someone can make sense of what I writ just now xD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2692194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SincaiN Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I also prefer Lemmy for most of the reasons listed above. I've never seemed to have an issue assigning him a wound pretty early. "who would win in a fight between Lemmy and God?" "trick question,. Lemmy IS God" :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2692253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 You gotta elaborate on that one The JP should've been optional imo. It's bad because it means you can't put him and his squad in a Drop Pod/Razorback/Rhino/Landraider. Especially when you have to put him in a squad where JP's are...well...not the greatest option. Mustn't you then allocate all the wounds to the same model? Different edition, and you can allocate wounds differently if the modells are different. Just because Lemartes has suffered a wound, does not mean the next wound(s) must be placed on him either. With old Thousand Sons it was a different matter (and again, edition), but in the end they were all identical modells, and as such "suffer wounds" togheter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2692263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 You gotta elaborate on that one The JP should've been optional imo. It's bad because it means you can't put him and his squad in a Drop Pod/Razorback/Rhino/Landraider. Especially when you put him in a squad where JP's are...well...a 'tad' overpriced. Can't he just ride on top of a deep-striking Land Raider and then use his JP's DoA to gently guide it down within D6" of a Greater Daemon's head? :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2692274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 you wish... also he didnt always have to take a jump pack. if i rember correctly in the last real dex he had the option to buy it... and i think death co too... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2692381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 The JP should've been optional imo. In terms of flexibility, yes. On the other hand, I see this as a challenge(although it was probably a mistake by he-who-must-not-be-named), to get the most out of Lemmy's capabilities. Just putting him and 9 DC into a Rhino would have been too easy, same for a LR. So, when you field DC with JP, you pay a high price, but your opponent will do as well, because along with Lemmy there is little they can't hit up in CC, and it has a psychological effect on your opponent when he sees black JP marines coming over his flank, deepstriking behind his lines and wrecking all what comes their way. I've found this even more intimidating than a Rhino or a LR(although the LR looks pretty evil, too). Just my 2 cents. :D Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2692419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Lem Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I appreciate that, guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224948-lemartes-vs-reclusiarch/#findComment-2692851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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