Adir Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 An Erudite Mordrak is simply Mordrak with a librarian (hence his education). I am not a huge fan of spamming so each unit is different. The list totals to about 1900 points so there is some room for extra goodies. TL;DR - Use Mordrak's First to the Fray rule to park a librarian with homer exactly where you want him; summon units to taste HQ - Mordrak; 5 halberd terminators HQ - Librarian; Shrouding, Summoning, Warp rift, Quicksilver, Halberd, Teleport homer Elite - 10 x Purifiers w/2 x psycannon, 2 x hammer,10 x halberds, rhino w/warp stab. field Troop - 10 x GKSS w/2 x psyacannon, 2 x hammer, rhino w/warp stab. field Troop - 6 x GKT w/psycannon, 6 x halberds Heavy - Land raider redeemer; warp stab. field, psybolt ammo, multi-melta Heavy - Dreadnought; warp stab. field, assault cannon, psybolt ammo Tactical highlights for the Erudite Mordrak list: -Mordrak and his termies form an old-school retinue (he can't be picked out in CC); plus halberd termies strike at I6 -Mordrak and his squad (incl. IC) have a special rule that allows them to deep strike on turn one without scattering -Mordrak also has Grand Strategy (G/Strat) which allows up to D3 infantry units to have either Scout, Counter-attack, count as Troops, or re-roll all To Wound rolls of 1 So the simple strategy is to give at least the Purifiers the Scout USR (which conveys to their dedicated transport). If you manage to get a G/Strat roll of 2 or 3 then give the Grey Knight Strike Squad (GKSS - Troop choice) Scout with their rhino and the dreadnought Scout as well (all have to have the same G/Strat choice). The librarian has two interesting powers in this strategy. Summoning allows him to deep strike an infantry unit to within 6" of him. With a teleport homer that unit doesn't scatter. The warp stabilisation field on a vehicle allows the vehicle to be summoned as well. Shrouding is a power used in your opponents shooting phase and grants Stealth to any unit within 6" of the librarian (including vehicles). Strategic placement of vehicles via Scout and use of smoke should give your vehicles two rounds of 3+ cover saves. So the librarian summons the land raider on turn two and either pops smoke or shoots the S7 assault cannon (it counts as moving Flat Out but with PoTMS can still shoot one gun). Meanwhile, the Purifier squad lays down covering fire with psycannons from the rhino, hopefully shielded behind the summoned raider. With luck and Stealth, you survive your opponents next round of shooting and on turn three deliver a heaping helping of terminators and purifiers into assault. To me, this embodies the power of an elite, survivable army. You are banking on some cover saves, but Mordrak's termies should be in cover and Stealthed and 3+ cover on vehicles is as good as you can get in 40k right now. If you can weather the incoming fire, you have pretty much broken your opponents flank by turn three and should be able to roll right through. Of course, this is all theoryhammer, but I feel like the new GK 'dex at least give you a reasonable chance of making this happen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 For this kind of list, I would take as many Termies as possible and capitalize on Purifiers and Psycannons. Stay out of range of psychic defense and hope you can summon! The Redeemer is a good choice because of the scare factor, but I'm afraid of AV14 LRs in melta range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Xeones Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The librarian has two interesting powers in this strategy. Summoning allows him to deep strike an infantry unit to within 6" of him. With a teleport homer that unit doesn't scatter. The warp stabilisation field on a vehicle allows the vehicle to be summoned as well. I disagree with your assumption that The Summoning as works with a teleport homer. If you go back and look at the rules, the unit being summoned does not count as teleporting. It is simply Deep Striking. This is just like vanilla Librarians with Gate of Infinity not being able to use teleport homers when they gate. Now, I believe that if you got a servo skull you could reduce your scatter to D6 instead of 2D6, but short of going with Inquisitors and Mystics, your not going to be able to pull off a perfect Summoning every time. Also, I see that your librarian has Quicksilver, yet all but one of your units have Halberds. Since I6 is good enough to swing before almost everyone else, wouldn't it make more sense to give your librarian a different power like Might of Titan for an extra 1+ to Strenght and 2D6 Armor Penetration? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The librarian has two interesting powers in this strategy. Summoning allows him to deep strike an infantry unit to within 6" of him. With a teleport homer that unit doesn't scatter. The warp stabilisation field on a vehicle allows the vehicle to be summoned as well. I disagree with your assumption that The Summoning as works with a teleport homer. If you go back and look at the rules, the unit being summoned does not count as teleporting. It is simply Deep Striking. This is just like vanilla Librarians with Gate of Infinity not being able to use teleport homers when they gate. Now, I believe that if you got a servo skull you could reduce your scatter to D6 instead of 2D6, but short of going with Inquisitors and Mystics, your not going to be able to pull off a perfect Summoning every time. Also, I see that your librarian has Quicksilver, yet all but one of your units have Halberds. Since I6 is good enough to swing before almost everyone else, wouldn't it make more sense to give your librarian a different power like Might of Titan for an extra 1+ to Strenght and 2D6 Armor Penetration? He wants Sanctuary in there :) 12" bubble of come get it is too good to pass up, especially if you're taking all Halberds. Also, if you're just using Mordrak as the flagpole in this strategy, you can just take 1 Ghost Knight and call it a day right? You save a good amount of points that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Xeones Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 He wants Sanctuary in there :) Good point. If you're gonna warp all your guys right in their face, you're gonna want a good incentive for them to want to avoid assaulting you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adir Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 I disagree with your assumption that The Summoning as works with a teleport homer. If you go back and look at the rules, the unit being summoned does not count as teleporting. It is simply Deep Striking. This is just like vanilla Librarians with Gate of Infinity not being able to use teleport homers when they gate. Now, I believe that if you got a servo skull you could reduce your scatter to D6 instead of 2D6, but short of going with Inquisitors and Mystics, your not going to be able to pull off a perfect Summoning every time. Quicksilver will definitely be swapped out for something else. I haven't settled on powers other than shrouding and summoning. As far as the homer on the librarian, I see where you are coming from. I would give the librarian servo skulls so reducing scatter by d6 should be fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 TL;DR - Use Mordrak's First to the Fray rule to park a librarian with homer exactly where you want him; summon units to taste I may be slow, but Mordrak is not an IC. I assumed he couldn't join anyone but his Ghosts. But if it doesn't specify that anywhere, the Librarian IC can join his unit, since they are both infantry? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muadib02 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The Librarian is an IC and can therefore join the unit that is Mordrak and his Knights. It is specified that the librarian can join his unit because thats what ICs do. It would only be an issue if in Mordraks entry it said that he could form a unit with ghost knights and that no one else could join it, which it does not. as First to the Fray states that Mordrak and any unit he accompanies will automatically arrive on your first turn with no scatter, if he deploys via deep strike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 So if for some insane reason Mordrak is used sans ghosts, could an IC still join him? Edit - I don't know why I am asking this, when would it really come up? It would be funny to beam down with a Librarian and Warp Rift some expensive tank off the board. But way too expensive to be practical. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 TL;DR - Use Mordrak's First to the Fray rule to park a librarian with homer exactly where you want him; summon units to taste I may be slow, but Mordrak is not an IC. I assumed he couldn't join anyone but his Ghosts. But if it doesn't specify that anywhere, the Librarian IC can join his unit, since they are both infantry? Mordrak isn't an IC, but the Librarian is. You cannot join an IC to a 1-model unit, but if Mordrak takes at least 1 Ghost, he'll be in a 2+ model unit. That's all you need. Mordrak isn't attaching to anyone; the Librarian is attaching to the unit. A Librarian could not, for example, attach to Crowe, sine he is a single model, non-IC unit with no way of bringing more models to the unit, like Mordrak can. Clear? Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Yes, thank you very much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 He got toned down too much. An untargetable Grand Master in a unit of GKT would have been great, but you can never make them scoring which means they are an expensive choice. And then they got bumped up from 32 pts back to 40pts same as normal GKT troops. So their only other bonus is to be able to teleport in on Turn 1. But whats the point teleporting if you cannot do some serious shooting when you land, seeing as you can't assault? They removed all options to give the unit ranged weapon upgrades too. I definitely won't be taking him at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I could see Mordrak in certain lists. You deepstrike in with Ghosts, which yes, won't do much the first turn (10 bolter shots), but it is an in your face move that the enemy has to deal with. Combine that with perhaps some Interceptors, or a Dreadknight (or both) which can be made scoring by Mordrak, and you can distract your enemy with quite a bit of stuff while everything else you have moves into place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 What I love about Mordrak (aside form the ZOMG In your face! Your opponent has to deal with) is he no potentially costs 60 points. Which is an awesome bargin. He could also cost 400 points, so it's a bit of a gamble. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Eh? He's a 200 point HQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Potental of three free Termines costing 40 points each, makes he lowest potetial cost being 60. Him and a squad of 5 Bodyguard is 400 points. Getting hit by a JotWW (for exmaple) removing Mordrak from play will cost you a whole 400 points, as the Bodyguard are remvoed as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosPhoenix Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Eh? He's a 200 point HQ. Don't forget his unit. Teleport Homer Summoning states: The chosen unit is removed from the tabletop and immediatly anywhere within 6" of the Librarian using deepstrike rules. There is no "as if" or "like" or whatever. Just use the deepstrike rules. The Teleport Homer states it's only working with "teleported" units which arrived via deepstrike rules, while this is not defined. I guess, a Drop Pod isn't teleportation :whistling:. But whats Summoning then? I think RAI-wise it should work. Just because it would be weird that the Librarian is the only Grey Knight HQ, who could take a teleport homer and not use it with his powers. But thats just me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2691881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I see possibilties for Mordak in an army also led by a GM and also containing a Stormraven. Scout the stormraven -- and make sure it's both towing along a dreadnought and has a nice payload inside -- and you can be dropping 4 nasty units in your opponent's face right away on turn 1. That's decent target saturation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2692073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 You can't use The Grand Strategy on non walker Vehicles, so only Dedicated Transports can get Scout. :P But you could Scout some Purifiers in Rhinos or NDKs to go along with Mordrak. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2692098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adir Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 But you could Scout some Purifiers in Rhinos or NDKs to go along with Mordrak. ;) Exactly. What makes Mordrak such a bargain is that he is a Grand Master on steroids. +1 BS,WS,W, and A from a vanilla GM at an effective cost of only 15 pts (assuming the GM just took an M/C hammer). Of course he loses out on the wargear options - which for me is mainly the grenades and the servo skulls. His ghost knights are designed to be CC only and I actually like that they removed the weapon options (and increased the price) from the leaked version. Had the leaked version been published, he and his bunch would truly have been a no-brainer choice over a standard GM. As it stands, between Fray and G/Strat, you are reliably putting 3 strong units right up in your opponents face turn one. The Shrouding gives them a very good chance to survive (termies with 3+ cover, yes please) and until they FAQ that vehicles can't be stealthed your Scouting rhinos should do okay as well. I am not 100% sold on Summoning tho. You might be better off driving the land raider down field and making your opponent choose between that and the Mordrak wrecking crew in his face. I would also probably take a 10 man termie team with 2 psycannons, split them, with the cannon half shadowing the land raider for fire support and/or objective scoring. Hopefully will get to try this list over the weekend and will report back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2692193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 You can't use The Grand Strategy on non walker Vehicles, so only Dedicated Transports can get Scout. ;) Crap! Missed that. I need the actual 'dex in my hands so I can do more than hurry through it at the store and try and remember everything! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2692195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I eagerly await the pre-order my mates have for me. ;) Codex, 2 boxes of TAGK, 2 boxes of PAGK, Draigo and a NDK. Can't wait! :D termies with 3+ cover, yes please How does the shrouding give a 3+ cover, unless you DSed into a Ruin? And it wouldn't be any help to the GhostKnights, who already have Stealth. Unless The Shrouding has changed form the leaked dex (where it gives a 6+ cover in the open and stealth). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2692242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Even though he isn't an IC and is therefore less susceptible to being "picked off", the thought of so many points piled into one single character that doesn't have EW scares me. Either way with his "regularly costed" GK Terminators I highly doubt I'd play him, unless it was for fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2692247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adir Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 Even though he isn't an IC and is therefore less susceptible to being "picked off", the thought of so many points piled into one single character that doesn't have EW scares me. Either way with his "regularly costed" GK Terminators I highly doubt I'd play him, unless it was for fun. So does that mean you won't be playing a regular GM? AFAIK Draigo is the only EW IC and there is no way to buy it anywhere else (someone correct me if I'm wrong). As a long time DH player I got spoiled by the GM with retinue so perhaps Mordrak is just my way of "kicking against the pricks". For me 400 pts for a six man GKT unit that will likely generate two additional GKT seems like a deal. Time will tell after a few games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2692373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Mordraks stats is not as good ad you claim :D I think you're looking at the wrong entry bro. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224952-the-education-of-mordrak/#findComment-2692405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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