GK IC joined to Mordrak

[Sepiroth]

Hi guys, Im not sure if this has been asked yet but can you

 

1. Can a IC join Mordraks ghost knight unit? (I dont see why not)

2. If the IC has the deep strike rule can it utilise “First to the fray”, if joined to the ghost knight unit?

3. Can a Librarian deep strike in and then use “The summoning” in the same turn he arrives?

 

 

Thanks for the help much appreciated.

[HERO]

First, the exact wording for The Summoning:

 

"The power can be used at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase. If the Psychic test is successful, choose a friendly, non-vehicle unti that is not locked in combat anywhere on the battlefield. The chosen unit is removed from the tabletop and immediately placed anywhere within 6" of the Librarian using the DS rules."

 

My big question is: Does it scatter?

 

The way I'm reading it is it doesn't scatter, and DS rules means they form a circle formation and cannot assault, but can still shoot/run.

[Sepiroth]

I agree.

 

The main thing for me here is basically that you can deep strike your Librarian in and then Summon 2 units to him in the same phase. Seeing as in the deep strike rules it only specify that the unit deploys in the beginning of the turn but you still have a movement phase but are not allowed move.

 

“Roll for arrival of these units as specified in the rules for reserves and then deploy them as follows. First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position you would like the unit to arrive, and roll the scatter dice…..

 

…In the Movement phase when they arrive, these units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking transport vehicle.”

 

So I cant see why not…. But need to check with you guys first before I do something horrible to my opponents.

[number6]

First, the exact wording for The Summoning:

 

"The power can be used at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase. If the Psychic test is successful, choose a friendly, non-vehicle unti that is not locked in combat anywhere on the battlefield. The chosen unit is removed from the tabletop and immediately placed anywhere within 6" of the Librarian using the DS rules."

 

My big question is: Does it scatter?

 

The way I'm reading it is it doesn't scatter, and DS rules means they form a circle formation and cannot assault, but can still shoot/run.

Since the "placement" uses the Deep Strike rules then you must roll for scatter as that is what the Deep Strike rules demand. It's a very dangerous power to my way of thinking, and not one I intend to use very often as a result, as cool as it is.

 

I also don't think you would be allowed to Deep Strike your Librarian and then use The Summoning. Both Deep Striking and The Summoning must occur "at the beginning" of the Movement phase. This is a little fuzzy, and will need to be FAQ'd to be authoritative, but I think the notation that The Summoning must occur at the beginning of "the Librarian's" Movement phase is what makes this impossible. At the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase, he's deep striking on to the table. Since that must happen first, that means that particular condition ("the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase") will have already passed just by the action of Deep Striking the model into position on the table.

 

That's my take, anyway. Again, not 100% certain that's the way it should be or will be FAQ'd, but I think it makes the most rational, RAW sense outside of an official ruling. It also strikes me as the kind of ruling that GW is most likely to make given their history of dealing with these kinds of rules collisions.

[Gentlemanloser]

I thought reserves coming in, and by that extention Deep Striking from reserves happened first in a turn, distinctly before the Movement Phase?

 

But I'd have to check the BRB! Been a while. :P

 

1. Can a IC join Mordraks ghost knight unit? (I dont see why not)

 

As long as there's 1 or more Ghost Knight, then yes. Otherwise no, as Mordrak is a single mini unit.

 

2. If the IC has the deep strike rule can it utilise “First to the fray”, if joined to the ghost knight unit?

 

Yup.

[Adir]

Summoning is a huge question in my mind. Gate of Infinity seems to set the precedent that a unit can be placed but still must roll for scatter if the rule specifies using D/S rules.

 

Summoning scatter should be reduced by the use of servo skulls, so at least early in the game this is a safer option. Just make sure the unit is at the 6" mark away from the libbie (nothing says you can't premeasure this, in fact I think you have to measure the distance from the libbie). So the worst you will do is scatter w/in 1" of him. If the summon unit is a vehicle, then you really don't even have to worry about that (no individual model placement).

 

I agree that Summoning doesn't seem to work on the turn that the libbie deep strikes - as much as I REALLY want it to!

[gil galed]

First, the exact wording for The Summoning:

 

"The power can be used at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase. If the Psychic test is successful, choose a friendly, non-vehicle unti that is not locked in combat anywhere on the battlefield. The chosen unit is removed from the tabletop and immediately placed anywhere within 6" of the Librarian using the DS rules."

 

My big question is: Does it scatter?

 

The way I'm reading it is it doesn't scatter, and DS rules means they form a circle formation and cannot assault, but can still shoot/run.

 

As previously mentioned and noted by 6 DS rules are that they scatter, I fail to see how you can read this in any other way really ;), if it said placed in deep strike formation then fine, but as it is it's saying they're deepstriking.

 

~Gil ;)

[Vet.Eter]

What if they use the deep strike rule, scatter but can't get out of that 6" bubble? Could it be like that?

[HERO]

First, the exact wording for The Summoning:

 

"The power can be used at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase. If the Psychic test is successful, choose a friendly, non-vehicle unti that is not locked in combat anywhere on the battlefield. The chosen unit is removed from the tabletop and immediately placed anywhere within 6" of the Librarian using the DS rules."

 

My big question is: Does it scatter?

 

The way I'm reading it is it doesn't scatter, and DS rules means they form a circle formation and cannot assault, but can still shoot/run.

 

As previously mentioned and noted by 6 DS rules are that they scatter, I fail to see how you can read this in any other way really ;), if it said placed in deep strike formation then fine, but as it is it's saying they're deepstriking.

 

~Gil :D

 

If it scatters outside the 6" of the Librarian, it wouldn't be placed correctly according to the power then?

 

I don't know :|

[number6]

If it scatters outside the 6" of the Librarian, it wouldn't be placed correctly according to the power then?

Legal placement of the unit must be within 6" of the Libby. Then you roll for scatter and let it do whatever.

 

This is exactly how the Deep Strike rules even work (and are worded). You place an initial model from the deep striking unit, then you roll for scatter.

 

The 6" Libby distance the Summoning specifies exists only to prevent you from placing the unit anywhere on the table (before scattering).

[HERO]

If it scatters outside the 6" of the Librarian, it wouldn't be placed correctly according to the power then?

Legal placement of the unit must be within 6" of the Libby. Then you roll for scatter and let it do whatever.

 

This is exactly how the Deep Strike rules even work (and are worded). You place an initial model from the deep striking unit, then you roll for scatter.

 

The 6" Libby distance the Summoning specifies exists only to prevent you from placing the unit anywhere on the table (before scattering).

 

Hmm, ok. I'll bite.

 

So now for the OP's beginning 2 questions.. do they really need a FAQ? And would it work with a Teleport Homer?

 

Thanks.

[number6]

So now for the OP's beginning 2 questions.. do they really need a FAQ?

I don't think this issue needs a FAQ response ... except in reference to deep striking the Libby and then trying to use The Summoning. That does need to be hammered into official finality.

And would it work with a Teleport Homer?

Yes. TP homers work on models arriving via Deep Strike. That's exactly what The Summoning does: make models arrive via Deep Strike.

[Adir]

And would it work with a Teleport Homer?

Yes. TP homers work on models arriving via Deep Strike. That's exactly what The Summoning does: make models arrive via Deep Strike.

As much as I want this to be true, the Marine homer states that it works only for units that are teleporting and not other means. Unless shrouding indicates that this is a teleport move then I am not sure the homer works for them.

[ToI]

The locator beacon that standard marines can take on drop pods and such would probably work, but as people have mentioned, the teleport homer only works on teleportation, and although we would like teleportation to include summoning, it probably doesn't.

[Barjack]

DS Libby with teleport homer, a successfully summoned unit will scatter, unless he was on the table before the turn commenced.

 

 

"Note that the teleport homer must already be on the table at the start of the turn for it to be used." pg 62

 

But thats why you take servo skulls

[Gentlemanloser]

While the TH entry states it works with Interceptor and Strike squads deep striking, it doesn't mention the Summoning.

 

The Summoning doesn't mention that you're DSing by Teleportation. So TH don't help with the Summoning.

 

Apart from the units explicitly mentioned in the TH entry, that is! You could summon a Strike Squad or Interceptor Squad (and anyone else mentioned in the entry, can't remember at work) as the TH helps them DS. And Summoning makes them DS.

 

;)

[Godhead]

I'm too busy warp rifting the guard parking lot on that 1st turn to be bothered with summoning ;) that will happen on the second turn.

[Barjack]

Hi guys, Im not sure if this has been asked yet but can you

 

1. Can a IC join Mordraks ghost knight unit? (I dont see why not)

2. If the IC has the deep strike rule can it utilise “First to the fray”, if joined to the ghost knight unit?

3. Can a Librarian deep strike in and then use “The summoning” in the same turn he arrives?

 

 

Thanks for the help much appreciated.

 

 

Mordak is a Unique character and he is not an independent character. Therefore no one can join his unit except his upgrade characters (ghost knights).

"mordak acts as an upgrade character for the unit until the last ghost knight is slain, then he reverts back to a single model " pg 40

 

 

While the TH entry states it works with Interceptor and Strike squads deep striking, it doesn't mention the Summoning.

 

The Summoning doesn't mention that you're DSing by Teleportation. So TH don't help with the Summoning.

 

Apart from the units explicitly mentioned in the TH entry, that is! You could summon a Strike Squad or Interceptor Squad (and anyone else mentioned in the entry, can't remember at work) as the TH helps them DS. And Summoning makes them DS.

 

;)

 

Most nits in the gk codex have deep strike in their rule set they can do it on their own therefore they are all affected by the teleport homer

[Spacefrisian]

Not sure if someone noticed the following flaw in this.

 

Librarian deepstrikes and than the power is used at the begining of his movement phase, but at the beginning of his movement phase he was of the table. I dare you all to pull that against me in a killpoints mission cause i like free killpoints.

[Gentlemanloser]

Mordak is a Unique character and he is not an independent character. Therefore no one can join his unit except his upgrade characters (ghost knights).

"mordak acts as an upgrade character for the unit until the last ghost knight is slain, then he reverts back to a single model " pg 40

 

This is only correct if Mordrak is on his own.

 

If he has a unit of ghsot Knights with him, other ICs are able to join that unit.

 

Most nits in the gk codex have deep strike in their rule set they can do it on their own therefore they are all affected by the teleport homer

 

No they can't.

 

Unless you're in TDA, your DS rule needs to specify you're Teleporting for the TH to work. The TH entry lists that it works with some specific units.

 

But the SR, for example, isn't listed, and doesn't Ds by way to Teleportation. So a TH is of no use for it.

[DeathKorpsman]

Mordak is a Unique character and he is not an independent character. Therefore no one can join his unit except his upgrade characters (ghost knights).

"mordak acts as an upgrade character for the unit until the last ghost knight is slain, then he reverts back to a single model " pg 40

 

This is only correct if Mordrak is on his own.

 

If he has a unit of ghsot Knights with him, other ICs are able to join that unit.

 

Totally agree.

 

Most nits in the gk codex have deep strike in their rule set they can do it on their own therefore they are all affected by the teleport homer

 

No they can't.

 

Unless you're in TDA, your DS rule needs to specify you're Teleporting for the TH to work. The TH entry lists that it works with some specific units.

 

But the SR, for example, isn't listed, and doesn't Ds by way to Teleportation. So a TH is of no use for it.

 

In this case, the GK teleport homer specifically references the squads that can use it to DS without scatter, in this case any TDA units, Interceptor, and Strike squads. The wording clearly specifies teleporting though, so Summoning is out.

 

Though here is a question:

 

If you have Mordrak (and Ghost Knights, whatever) in your list and, after the first turn, have a librarian cast The Summoning (both units having already been on the table and all that, so the rule is satisfied), does Mordrak scatter? One uses "deploys via" and the other uses "placed via" terminology. Still, seems kinda grey (pun!) to me.

[Gentlemanloser]

You only deploy once, so he probably doesn't get his anti scatter on other instances of Deep Striking. :lol:

[Chairman_woo]

It says "if he deploys by deepstrike, Mordrak and the unit he acompanies automaticaly arive in your first turn and will not scatter"

 

Based on that I'd say a firm no to summoning unfortunately.