Grand Master and Librarian

[Valerian]

Fellow Knights,

 

I am looking for your recommendations on a couple things. I've already got about 2,500 points worth of painted Grey Knights, so I am hoping to update my legacy army to 5th edition with minimal purchases, changes, and modifications (although I realize that a few will be required).

 

First issue: I've got the old Stern model that I swapped out the Storm Bolter for a Psycannon, and the old generic Brother-Captain model that also got a Psycannon swap. My intent is to continue to use these same two models as my two HQ choices, which will be a generic Grand Master, and a Librarian. The Librarian can't take a Psycannon, so I'm going to have to pop the arm off of one of those models and put the Storm Bolter arm back on, and paint it up. My question is, would it be better for the Grand Master to have the Nemesis Force Sword, and give the Librarian the Nemesis Force Halberd, or vice versa? Or, does it even matter? What would you do?

 

Second Issue: I've got two packs of 5 Grey Knight Terminators that I can use to meet my minimum Troops requirement. I intend to be a primarily Deep Striking/Footslogging force, and am not interested in "meching-up", although I might get a Stormraven in the future. I've got 40 PAGK that I could use to be any mix of Strike Squads, Interceptor Squads, or Purifier Squads (although based on early army list creation attempts, I probably would only be able to fit a max of 3 squads in, at 2,000 point or less games). How would you assign them? I would love to just make 3x full squads of Purifiers, and hope for a good Grand Strategy roll to make more than one of them Scoring (in games where that matters). However, they can't Deep Strike, and would have to be Summoned for mobility. I'm leaning toward just making 3x Squads of Interceptors for the Deep Strike, and extra Jump Infantry mobility once deployed.

 

Lastly, I have a quick question, which might make the difference between how I assign my PAGK. A Psyker is limited to a single Psychic Shooting Attack per turn, even if he has the ability to cast more than one power. However, can a Psyker with Mastery 2 or 3 choose to cast the same non-Shooting power more than once in the same turn? In other words, can a Mastery 3 Librarian attempt to Summon 3x units at the beginning of the Movement phase, if you wanted to? I can't find anything to prevent it, but might just not be remembering a restriction on this sort of thing.

 

Best Regards,

 

Valerian

[HERO]

First issue: I've got the old Stern model that I swapped out the Storm Bolter for a Psycannon, and the old generic Brother-Captain model that also got a Psycannon swap. My intent is to continue to use these same two models as my two HQ choices, which will be a generic Grand Master, and a Librarian. The Librarian can't take a Psycannon, so I'm going to have to pop the arm off of one of those models and put the Storm Bolter arm back on, and paint it up. My question is, would it be better for the Grand Master to have the Nemesis Force Sword, and give the Librarian the Nemesis Force Halberd, or vice versa? Or, does it even matter? What would you do?

 

Sword, always. As I5, you don't really need I7. You would much rather have the 3++ Invul in CC more so than the generic 4++.

 

Second Issue: I've got two packs of 5 Grey Knight Terminators that I can use to meet my minimum Troops requirement. I intend to be a primarily Deep Striking/Footslogging force, and am not interested in "meching-up", although I might get a Stormraven in the future. I've got 40 PAGK that I could use to be any mix of Strike Squads, Interceptor Squads, or Purifier Squads (although based on early army list creation attempts, I probably would only be able to fit a max of 3 squads in, at 2,000 point or less games). How would you assign them? I would love to just make 3x full squads of Purifiers, and hope for a good Grand Strategy roll to make more than one of them Scoring (in games where that matters). However, they can't Deep Strike, and would have to be Summoned for mobility. I'm leaning toward just making 3x Squads of Interceptors for the Deep Strike, and extra Jump Infantry mobility once deployed.

 

2 packs of 5x GKT is a decent troop choice, but I would probably like a full squad of 10 so you can combat squad if needed, or DS as a full unit and apply serious pressure. The PAGK can be 2x GKSS, 1 Purifier and 1 Interceptor. I think that ratio would work out the best.

 

Lastly, I have a quick question, which might make the difference between how I assign my PAGK. A Psyker is limited to a single Psychic Shooting Attack per turn, even if he has the ability to cast more than one power. However, can a Psyker with Mastery 2 or 3 choose to cast the same non-Shooting power more than once in the same turn? In other words, can a Mastery 3 Librarian attempt to Summon 3x units at the beginning of the Movement phase, if you wanted to? I can't find anything to prevent it, but might just not be remembering a restriction on this sort of thing.

 

I believe it's 1 power of the same name per turn.

[ToI]

First Issue: keep the GM with the sword, in CC the 3++ from the iron halo/NFS combo is too good. Give the Libby the halberd if you really want to, but I feel he doesn't particularly need it, giving him the sword is again probably the better option.

 

Second Issue: What hero said...2 GKSS and 1 each of the other options is good

 

Third Issue: Not sure, I haven't actually read that section of the rule book in a while as all my libby did usually was gate once a turn and then go "I'm pooped, time for a nap". but I would assume you can't just use something like summoning 3 times and pull your whole army up in their face all at once

[Valerian]

First issue: I've got the old Stern model that I swapped out the Storm Bolter for a Psycannon, and the old generic Brother-Captain model that also got a Psycannon swap. My intent is to continue to use these same two models as my two HQ choices, which will be a generic Grand Master, and a Librarian. The Librarian can't take a Psycannon, so I'm going to have to pop the arm off of one of those models and put the Storm Bolter arm back on, and paint it up. My question is, would it be better for the Grand Master to have the Nemesis Force Sword, and give the Librarian the Nemesis Force Halberd, or vice versa? Or, does it even matter? What would you do?

 

Sword, always. As I5, you don't really need I7. You would much rather have the 3++ Invul in CC more so than the generic 4++.

 

That's what I was leaning toward, although an I7 Grand Master really appeals to me ("What's that, Commander Dante? You think you're fast?"). I believe I'll go with the Sword, especially since there will be Halberds in the Squad that he's attached to, for those up-front attacks to thin out the enemy anyway. It's too bad that the +1 to Invulnerable Save looks like it won't help at all versus Perils of the Warp attacks; it really would have been nice to be able to use a NFS or NWS to help keep my Librarian alive.

 

Second Issue: I've got two packs of 5 Grey Knight Terminators that I can use to meet my minimum Troops requirement. I intend to be a primarily Deep Striking/Footslogging force, and am not interested in "meching-up", although I might get a Stormraven in the future. I've got 40 PAGK that I could use to be any mix of Strike Squads, Interceptor Squads, or Purifier Squads (although based on early army list creation attempts, I probably would only be able to fit a max of 3 squads in, at 2,000 point or less games). How would you assign them? I would love to just make 3x full squads of Purifiers, and hope for a good Grand Strategy roll to make more than one of them Scoring (in games where that matters). However, they can't Deep Strike, and would have to be Summoned for mobility. I'm leaning toward just making 3x Squads of Interceptors for the Deep Strike, and extra Jump Infantry mobility once deployed.

 

2 packs of 5x GKT is a decent troop choice, but I would probably like a full squad of 10 so you can combat squad if needed, or DS as a full unit and apply serious pressure. The PAGK can be 2x GKSS, 1 Purifier and 1 Interceptor. I think that ratio would work out the best.

 

I was thinking about attaching the Grand Master to one GKT Squad, and the Librarian to the other. I can certainly see the utility in buying them as a full unit of 10, and then deciding about who goes where, and whether I Combat Squad split them during deployment. I can also get Psybolt Ammo for cheaper with a single large unit, should I have spare points for that upgrade. I generally shy away from "Death Star" units in my other armies, but a full GKT unit with both Characters attached would be pretty nasty. Something to think about here. For Seize Ground Missions, having more Scoring units really helps, with 3 to 5 Objectives on the board, but with either Capture and Control, or Annihilation, larger consolidated units would be better.

 

It looks like it'll be 1x Purifier, and 2x Strike Squads for me. I can't afford the Interceptor squad unless I bump up to a 2,500 game.

 

Lastly, I have a quick question, which might make the difference between how I assign my PAGK. A Psyker is limited to a single Psychic Shooting Attack per turn, even if he has the ability to cast more than one power. However, can a Psyker with Mastery 2 or 3 choose to cast the same non-Shooting power more than once in the same turn? In other words, can a Mastery 3 Librarian attempt to Summon 3x units at the beginning of the Movement phase, if you wanted to? I can't find anything to prevent it, but might just not be remembering a restriction on this sort of thing.

 

I believe it's 1 power of the same name per turn.

 

That seems intuitive, but I haven't actually found anywhere where this is stated. It definitely isn't in the BRB, because the section on Psykers assumes only a single power per turn anyway. I checked my Space Wolves codex, which has Njal and the Master of Runes upgrade opportunities, and it doesn't specify that they have to be different powers, when you cast multiple per turn.

 

First Issue: keep the GM with the sword, in CC the 3++ from the iron halo/NFS combo is too good. Give the Libby the halberd if you really want to, but I feel he doesn't particularly need it, giving him the sword is again probably the better option.

 

Well, one of the models has a Halberd, and I'm not going to mess with it, so I'll just spend the 5 points and give the Librarian the Halberd, since it seems like the GM will need the Invulnerable boost more.

 

I would assume you can't just use something like summoning 3 times and pull your whole army up in their face all at once

 

Yeah, that's the assumption, but I'm looking for something definitive. So far, I have found anything that states that you can't duplicate.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian

[HERO]

I was thinking about attaching the Grand Master to one GKT Squad, and the Librarian to the other. I can certainly see the utility in buying them as a full unit of 10, and then deciding about who goes where, and whether I Combat Squad split them during deployment. I can also get Psybolt Ammo for cheaper with a single large unit, should I have spare points for that upgrade. I generally shy away from "Death Star" units in my other armies, but a full GKT unit with both Characters attached would be pretty nasty. Something to think about here. For Seize Ground Missions, having more Scoring units really helps, with 3 to 5 Objectives on the board, but with either Capture and Control, or Annihilation, larger consolidated units would be better.

 

Another thing to note is that you can apply battlefield roles via Grand Strategy before deploying for Combat Squads. This means you can give a huge Terminator squad Scout and then have them Combat Squad for 2 Outflanking units.

 

Another incentive for bigger Termie squads imo.

[Valerian]

I was thinking about attaching the Grand Master to one GKT Squad, and the Librarian to the other. I can certainly see the utility in buying them as a full unit of 10, and then deciding about who goes where, and whether I Combat Squad split them during deployment. I can also get Psybolt Ammo for cheaper with a single large unit, should I have spare points for that upgrade. I generally shy away from "Death Star" units in my other armies, but a full GKT unit with both Characters attached would be pretty nasty. Something to think about here. For Seize Ground Missions, having more Scoring units really helps, with 3 to 5 Objectives on the board, but with either Capture and Control, or Annihilation, larger consolidated units would be better.

 

Another thing to note is that you can apply battlefield roles via Grand Strategy before deploying for Combat Squads. This means you can give a huge Terminator squad Scout and then have them Combat Squad for 2 Outflanking units.

 

Another incentive for bigger Termie squads imo.

 

No doubt; thanks for that pointer! The problem with the Grand Strategy is that all of the choices are good. At least you get the flexibility to decide prior to Deployment for each game, rather than during list creation. I don't play tournaments, but this flexibility would be extremely helpful if I did.

 

V

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

First Issue: keep the GM with the sword, in CC the 3++ from the iron halo/NFS combo is too good.

 

God I am a dumbass. I now the force sword rule, but on the HQs I somehow forgot about it? Dur....

 

Yes, a 3++ Initiative 5 is way better than Initiative 7 and 4++.