Sky claws?

[skoll]

much like blood claws but jump infantry , I've gotten mixd views on them from other forums , but most tend to consolidate on the damned awful side. Whilst others tend to argue they aint bad but there are better choices.

 

I think

 

Skyclaws Squad 1: 380pts

Wolf Priest with Runic Armour, Melta Bombs, Jump Pack

10 Skyclaws, Powerfist, Mark of the Wulfen, Melta Gun

 

( list courtesy of the space wolves blog space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com)

 

sounds pretty dam legit and deadly. The concept of space wolves dropping in from the sky to tear my enemies to pieces just entices me, and since those fast attack slots remain unused (xept for thunder wolf cav, but i'd need to get some resin mounts for that, and they seem rather expensive) might as well field at least one squad.

 

but yeah your thoughts are appreciated.

[Wulfebane]

I personally won't field footslogging Blood Claws. For the points, I'd rather go with Grey Hunters. People might say I lose out on the BC abilities, for which, if I really want to use those abilities, I'd rather have them on Skyclaws or Swiftclaw bikers instead. Even though you can't toss them in a rhino, you can still get them to the front lines pretty damn fast, as well as adjoining a WP or WGpl to, so it works out the same in my opinion.

 

The only scenario I can think of where footslogging them is a must, would be for armies using Ragnar that don't want him joining GHs.

[Dahli Llama]

The general problems with Sky Claws are price, accuracy, and deep strike.

 

They cost a bundle for what you get. At 380 points, like you mention, you can get a lot more from other units in the army.

 

With only a BS of 3, their melta gun is rather unreliable. With a WS of 3, the will be hitting on 4's most of the time, but other armies will usually be hitting back on 3's.

 

And for deep striking, they lack the accuracy of Blood Angels. 66% of the time they will scatter 2d6, which is often dangerous. If they're not deep striking, then they're just fast marines.

 

Overall, they're not terrible on their own, but when compared to other options (even just against other FA choices) they are lacking. A full Thunderwolf Calvary squad is only 250-300 (unless you put shields on everything), is just as fast (faster actually with fleet and won't die to terrain), and will likely kill a lot more than the Sky Claws.

[Sigmund Hammerhand]

They cost a bundle for what you get. At 380 points, like you mention, you can get a lot more from other units in the army.

 

Er, yes. But they're not actually 380 points. The sky claws by themselves are only 180 plus whatever gear you give them, and the wolf priest is only 140-ish. So the squad itself isn't all that pricey.

And while you might get a full squad of thunderwolves for the price of the claws and the wolf priest, once you give them equipment they quickly become more expensive. That being said, overall I think thunderwolves are still better than skyclaws by... a lot. But sky claws serve well if all you want is to have something fast that'll give your opponent something to think about for a turn or two until you get into position with the rest of your army. I do the same, but I use swift claws instead, because they're faster.

 

With a wolf priest and a power fist or two(I'm not entirely sure whether they can actually get more than one power fist, thanks to having never even read their entry), skyclaws are a force to be reckoned with (and outdo conventional assault marines). So they'll work alright, but they won't work as well as other things you could get for those points (much like swift claws some might say - I don't - but I use them anyway).

[Jonas Stromclaw]

Skyclaws are one of my favorites. A lot cheaper in $s than Thunder wolves and more fun fluffwise in my opinion. Great spot to put a wolf priest although they should never have any special weapon other than a flamer. They are best used to disrupt gunline armies (particularly tau) ahead of your main assault, usually supporting droppod dread/OBEL scouts. I don't know why people don't like them, these are one of my favorite units in the new codex. They may die horribly, but not before cutting a bloody swathe through the foe.

[Spacefrisian]

I dont realy use the Bloodclaws with Jumppacks, for the simple reason of their WS, Ws 3 isnt very great for dodging attacks. Another idea might be to go wild on points and use Wolfguard With jumppacks.

 

With Logan as Leader they become troops as well wich is also nice, alongside ws 4 and an extra attacks where Bloodclaws need their berserk charge.

[Grimfoe]

Skyclaws are one of my favorites. A lot cheaper in $s than Thunder wolves and more fun fluffwise in my opinion. Great spot to put a wolf priest although they should never have any special weapon other than a flamer. They are best used to disrupt gunline armies (particularly tau) ahead of your main assault, usually supporting droppod dread/OBEL scouts. I don't know why people don't like them, these are one of my favorite units in the new codex. They may die horribly, but not before cutting a bloody swathe through the foe.

 

This is really the central point. I really like Blood Claws with jump packs. They were one of my favorite squads in the 2nd edition when I first started using them and they are some of my favorite models in my army. I even modelled a wolf priest with a powerfist and sword to lead them (trust me, back in the day it was the thing to do)

 

The fact is, there are better uses of those points. If a sky claw pack is 180 points plus specials, I can put 10 grey hunters in a drop pod with two plasma guns (or melta, if you prefer) and drop them much more accurately. They're better in CC, in some conditions, and MUCH better shooting.

 

So, I don't argue that I'm taking Blood Claws with Jump Packs because they're better. I do it because I like them. As you play, you have to play stuff you like and find ways to make it effective.

[Grey Mage]

And there are ways to make them effective.

 

10 Bloodclaws with Powerfist and Flamer in a Rhino- 210pts.

10 Skyclaws with Powerfist and Flamer- 210pts.

 

Whats the difference? Well, with Skyclaws I can pa 25pts to give my Wolf Priest a jump pack and theyre ready to rock and roll. If I wanted to do that with a regular squad Id need to put them in a Crusader or a Redeemer. I mean sure, those are solid tanks- but after we take out the 25pts I could afford a squad of Long Fangs and a Razorback, wich would give me more cover fire at more targets as I needed- and thats pretty epic in my opinion.

 

Downside? They can get shot at by S4 or less weapons. Well, it happens- we learn to block line of sight, use terrain, and assault units that are both tasty and over-extended.

 

If your not going for a large squad in a crusader theres alot of times where skyclaws will be a solid choice. If they could be made scoring that would be more often.... but they aint to bad.

[Wildfire]

IMO, skyclaws would be great if they could take a WGPL. As it is, devoting an HQ to keep them in line and add some oomph simly costs too much.

[Wysten]

I dont realy use the Bloodclaws with Jumppacks, for the simple reason of their WS, Ws 3 isnt very great for dodging attacks. Another idea might be to go wild on points and use Wolfguard With jumppacks.

 

With Logan as Leader they become troops as well wich is also nice, alongside ws 4 and an extra attacks where Bloodclaws need their berserk charge.

And cost 43 points each, costing more then twice as much as a Skyclaw bare. I am all for fluff, but theres a point where it just gets silly, Wolf Guard are too stubborn to put the Jetpack on unless paid an ample amount of Al, the points total shows how much he's willing to drink before he will put the pack on. :P

 

A bare 180 squad is good value, with Mark of the Wolven it's 195 and 205 with power weapon, or 220 with a fist. That to me is a perfectly good aggressive unit. As said, they are not that great at shooting anyway, so use them as a counter assualt/aggressive unit that pins things down so that the Grey Hunters can join in, or to come to the aid of Grey Hunters.

 

That means they are useless at shooting, but they lash tons of attacks on a target that may just swing a battle to save those Grey Hunters at just 10 points more then an assualt troop in Blood Angels. Which is decent considering they are the aggressive army. Wolf Priests make them a Thunder Wolf pack in terms of target prioity, only at more points.

 

If you want anti tank, then a Landspeeder or Swiftclaws are better investments, the melta is too much effort to give to them and the wolf priest makes them too expensive. Personally, they are a fast hitting support unit.

[Mac the knife]

I love my Skyclaws, i run em pretty bare 10x MOTW and PW w/ Wolfpriest. For what I want out of them they are amazing. They don't survive the game most of the time but they do provide the rest of my force the time to get into position to defend objectives. For some reason my opponents love to focus their force on my lowly bloodclaws and wolfpriest though so your mileage may vary.

[skoll]

hmm now that you guys mention it a flamer instead of a melta does seem like a dam good idea. Also giving MoTW to the model with the flamer would benefit the unit more than to give it to one without (since it would get a minimum of 4 attacks on the charge anyway regardless of no close combat weapon)

[Bulweih]

But fluff wise it would be a bit of a stretch :cuss .

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

10 Skyclaws - Powerfist 205

Wolf Priest - Jump Pack, talisman, melta bombs 135

 

340 points gets you a great counter attack pack which is fearless, relatively fast, has 12 power armour wounds and re-rolls 4 attacks to hit each on the charge (mostly). Best unit in the game, no, but a solid addition to any force and underestimated by many, most definitely.

 

I enjoy using them as the 'wildcard' in a drop pod force - fits the deep strike theme and provides a bit of re-deployment potential... Give them a go - they won't let you down and are really fun to use.

[little brother]

I love my Skyclaws, i run em pretty bare 10x MOTW and PW w/ Wolfpriest. For what I want out of them they are amazing. They don't survive the game most of the time but they do provide the rest of my force the time to get into position to defend objectives. For some reason my opponents love to focus their force on my lowly bloodclaws and wolfpriest though so your mileage may vary.

 

Thats a good enough reason to take them.They make an excellent distraction unit. Your opponent has to deal with them or risk having a fast and reasonable combat unit chewing it's way through his army early in the game. It will take at least 2 units shooting at them, to bring them down. That is two less units shooting at the rest of your force, so they can get closer and do the real damage. Maybe a bit expensive perhaps for a distraction unit, but I am sure it can be tweaked.

[Firenze]

People get terrified of BCs and WP. Put JPs into the equation and there is a distinct lack of fire directed at your other troops. I play footsloggers, so I use a squad of skyclaws to rout out stragglers, gain attention and fire enough so I can get into position with my other squads.

[Grimfoe]

I agree. Anytime you get to choose where your opponent fires, you win.

[skoll]

just tried em in a game vs necrons, kept it small a pack of 5 , they wiped an entire squad of necron warriors in one charge, then proceeded to lock up another squad for 2 turns, whilst the rest of my forces dealt with necron destroyers, after passing an ungodly amount of armor saves i won the game

[Jonas Stromclaw]

People get terrified of BCs and WP. Put JPs into the equation and there is a distinct lack of fire directed at your other troops. I play footsloggers, so I use a squad of skyclaws to rout out stragglers, gain attention and fire enough so I can get into position with my other squads.

Seconded. I play against lots of gunlines with my footslogger lads and the addition of this one unit more than doubles everyone elses' survival rate. Not a game breaking unit or a death star, but extremely flexible. I don't leave home without them.

[Grimtooth]

Skyclaws are very low on my build lists. In fact I only use them for fun in big point battles. The problem for me lies that they do not justify their points cost in the configuration that you need to run them in,

 

They need to be led by an IC, preferably a Wolf Priest, but a WGBL at the least.

 

They cannot be a small surgical strike unit like a BA DoA unit. You need to max their numbers to ensure they get to the enemy.

 

As has been mentioned, zero accuracy on deep striking.

 

Their lowered weapon skill is somewhat offset by the addional attacks on the charge, but becomes a hinderance later into the assault.

 

Reduced ballistic skill makes flamer only real reliable choice.

[Aeric]

Has anyone tried a 5 man squad? Maybe with a powerfist? You could use it as a cheap throw away squad; to hold up troops for a turn , quick counterattacks placed just behind a tank or a grey hunter unit.

[skoll]

yeah my unit was of 5 , without an IC, and they worked great in a 1k point game, taking more than their equivalent of points in necrons, and holding up other squads enough for the rest of my forces to really cause havoc .

 

perhaps it was because russ was with my dice, but i did roll and ungodly amount of 4+ rolls that night

[Freman Bloodglaive]

That said, Necrons aren't an army we overly concern ourselves with. :)

[skoll]

true , but im pretty sure they'd unleash the same havoc on most other armies, perhaps only barring space marines vanilla , chaos, or otherwise

[Freman Bloodglaive]

They do, but I take mine in a block of 10 with a Wolf Priest.

 

With numbers they have bodies to lose a couple on the way in and still have enough to bring the pain. The Priest ensures they're not running away at the first shots.