A theory...

[Cockroach]

If you were to take 6X10 man assault squads with a 2Xmelta, 1Xpowerfist loadout (1410pts.) against any Tau list. Theres no way they could win...

[saintgeo23]

I think you may write thesis for a doctor's degree! :P

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I think that Tau these days have trouble winning against anything that isn't IG. Assuming they still can out-shoot them.

[AngelOfDeathXIII]

Yeah.. Tau are pretty much helpless against Blood Angels.. My Tau-playing friend even refuses to play the Blood Angels since our second match xD.. Personally I'd take Vanguard Veterans as well so the Tau don't even get a single round of firing before you hit them.. Or something tought to kill like Terminators, DC or Sanguinary Guard (with Priest) to soak up their fire while the other troops Deep Strike and hit them were it hurt...

[Cockroach]

I still play my friend but I have to tone my lists down a lot so he actually gets a look in, else he's tabled by turn 4. I can see the tau getting a LOT of anti-marine weapons next codex.

[DV8]

I would argue that a Farsight list maxed on Plasma and Missile Pods would have a field day with your list. Granted, it would depend heavily on objectives/terrain/deployment, but they can absolutely give you a run for your money. Back that up with Broadsides and they'll take out a unit or two per turn.

 

The issue with the Tau codex is that half the units in the book are more or less useless. Their Troops choices are minimal and abysmal, and yet in the objective-based, mechanized meta of 5th Edition, you can't do without Troops or Transports. So the Tau really struggle; their army will be severely limited if they take sufficient mechanized Troops to focus on objectives, and will at best draw 2/3 of their game if they min/max the Troops to take other things in the army to kill you (and Tau won't ever really be able to reliably Annihilate an opponent).

 

The only real units you will ever see in a Tau list:

 

Commanders (Shas'o and Shas'el...occasionally O'Shovah). HQ's aren't a big deal, and are actually a way to squeeze in more suits with bodyguard retinues.

Crisis Teams and Stealth Teams. Both of which vie for the valuable Elite slots. Tau need as many Crisis Teams as they can fit in, but the Stealth Teams add real anti-infantry punch.

Fire Warriors and Kroot. Simply because you have to, but they're far too easy to kill, and cost way too many points. Kroot mitigate this by being relatively cheap and a lack-luster counter-assault unit (although low toughness, leadership, and a nonexistent sees them dead very quickly).

Broadsides and Hammerheads. Unfortunately these also vie for the valuable Heavy slots, but given that you don't usually need THAT many Railgun shots in an army, it's simply a matter of balancing how many Railguns you want per increment of points.

 

 

DV8

[BOBMAKENZIE]

pathfinders? Some also swear by Pirhanna

 

 

Fire Warrior Vs. Stealth Pts to output ration on the Anti Infantry front isnt all that bad. A lot of rapid fire fire warriors can do something. Its just not all that great with all the FNP now out there.

[Cockroach]

Yeah I agree to an extent, the only units my pal takes that offer ANY resistance against my lists are his stealth suits and broadsides... but if you keep your units cheap and plentiful, tau struggle like hell.

 

IMO they need a complete reworking... like you said their troops are shocking and cost a little less than a space marine.

I think the GW models suck too... like a half arsed japanese anime looking attempt on the suits. They need to take a leaf from FW's book IMO (both rules & models). If they took the army down this route emphasising on badass geared-up battlesuits, even maybe implementing some awesome close combat battlesuits, box kits with a truck load of weapon/customisation options... I'd consider collecting myself but as it stands I'd rather collect Necrons (and thats not happening anytime this millenia).

[Cockroach]

pathfinders? Some also swear by Pirhanna

 

 

Fire Warrior Vs. Stealth Pts to output ration on the Anti Infantry front isnt all that bad. A lot of rapid fire fire warriors can do something. Its just not all that great with all the FNP now out there.

 

Oh yeah.. As for Firewarriors, I've seen so many times a single assault marine destroy a whole squad of firewarriors. They take 2 or 3 casualties, modify their already dismal ld. value, fail the roll and lose to an initiative roll-off nearly everytime. Just... shocking mate.

[DV8]

You say this like I should be surprised? :P I regularly crush my Tau opponents with any list I field. In fact my outflanking hybrid mech/air cav Guard crushed a Tau army in a single turn of firepower just last night! (aptly enough, the turn they arrived).

 

If the current trend of codices is any indication, I expect that when the Tau are rereleased, we can expect bad-ass things from both the Codex and the models (the former especially if Matt Ward has a hand in it).

 

 

DV8

[VAGABOND]

I played againstr a regular opponant with my Sanguinary Guard the past few weeks and the first time we played he nearly wiped me out, I was just lucky that Dante managed to make it into combat with his unit :cuss

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

EDIT* disregard this post, wrong thread, its what I get when I don't have food and use my phone B)

[Tabgoi]

Tau are a very specialized army whose lists take some real skill to put together. Most Tau players however suck at building and using their lists. I have a buddy who is pretty good, just took second place in a tournament down in San Antonio with his Tau, but then again he's smart about how he uses them. I have fought maybe 5 different Tau players, not counting him, and their stupidity truely dumb founded me. Three of them thought Death Company, ten DC mind you, could be beaten in close combat by a Kroot counter charge. I have guys shooting Hammer Heads with rail guns at DC instead of furiousos or my transports. Essentially most of them failed basic tactics 101.

[Drachnon]

I've actually recently started a Tau list because I wanted a shooty army. Suffice to say I have no experience with them worth mentioning. Only one 500 points game, which I did win because my over equipped commander was almost impossible for him to kill (he played IG).

Don't know how I will do against blood angels or other marines, because of the fluff around my army I don't field kroot or vespids, instead I'm gonna try to field 2 small firewarrior squads with carbines who get in front of the larger shooty squads to deny opponent the charge. With that as base (which I hope counters most infantry) I'll be supporting it with Broadsides for anti armor and Crisis suits + commander all with plasma, fusion and multi tracker for anti heavy infantry as well as extra anti armor.

if I had to play my own list with my standard BA list I do think BA would win, a furioso with heavy flamer dropping in next to the broadsides would probably be devastating completely shutting down any chance for Tau to take out my Flamerback and Vindicator at range.

 

The problem with Tau is that their codex is outdated, I think right now only witchhunters and necron are older (neither of those are seen as tournament worthy either, at the moment)

[The Yncarne]

I've played Tau since they were introduced through a few months into 5th edition. They have many problems, arguably most, being changes to the core rules rather than their codex being poor or old. I would argue that the most effective Tau lists in the current edition have minimal crisis suits and rely on broadsides and vehicles to stay competitive. Many lists will also run Kroot as bubblewraps since they are the better troops choice in this edition.

 

What does suck about the Tau codex is the 1+ Fire Caste Warrior squad and the 1+ crisis commander. This isn't bad if those units are good, but they aren't the best in the current rules. The unit synergy is disrupted and I think it will be very hard for the game developers to get it back in 5th edition.

 

I love mobile armies which is why I had to go from Tau to DoA Space Marines. The Tau just can't cut it in this edition.

[Whitefireinferno]

Hmm a discussion about Tau this is a interesting thing to encounter on B&C But yes most of the above posters are correct Tau are my main Army that I have Played since their conception during third. And now I bring more problems to the Table by running Farsight I however have a better win ratio with them than my Tearers their biggest downfall is their mobility is mooted now and now everything has better weapons the GK codex has made this worse since the best thing the Tau had going for them were S5 guns everywhere but now this is a 20 point upgrade for units. They also have nothing for a 1/3 of each game since Kroot are not even a worthwhile counter assault unit.

 

HOWEVER My army has not lost a game to GKs yet including tabling a Draigo Paladin list on turn 4 would have been turn 3 but draigo was alone so Farsight had a punch up Paladin list was a epic fail due to the amount of Str 6-8 with Ap 1-2 in the army.

 

But when they do get a update I can see their shooting getting ramped up quite alot because that is their thing good Dakka and Good mobility both are somewhat gimped these days.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

if I had to play my own list with my standard BA list I do think BA would win, a furioso with heavy flamer dropping in next to the broadsides would probably be devastating completely shutting down any chance for Tau to take out my Flamerback and Vindicator at range.

 

 

umm, do you just mean that the broadsides would stop to take the Furioso out? Isnt that what PLasma Fusion Suits are for? I dont think this sounds like a very good idea. 1-2 Shield Drones dead is not worth the furioso's life i dont think.

[Cockroach]

Tau need something to counter deep-strike units tbh. Something that can disrupt landing locations because, as it stands, you can deep-strike a unit next to the Tau and say "you've got your next shooting phase to wipe these guys out else theyre gunna stomp through your entire army" and when you're using a DoA list with multiple assault troops landing on the same turn, this is going to be unlikely.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Tau need something to counter deep-strike units tbh. Something that can disrupt landing locations because, as it stands, you can deep-strike a unit next to the Tau and say "you've got your next shooting phase to wipe these guys out else theyre gunna stomp through your entire army" and when you're using a DoA list with multiple assault troops landing on the same turn, this is going to be unlikely.

 

Well deepstriking in puts you right in their comfortzone of close range firepower. Its hard for them because of their lack of firepower and the added survivability FNp brings. For example to killl 10 Assault Marines. It takes only about 90 BS 3 Pulse Rifle Shots. You put FNP on that and suddenly that doubles. Notably 2 Marker lights makes that 90 shots drop down to ~53shots which is where Tau can try and make up the difference though it seems abit rough in the long run. A unit like Crisis Suits with Plasma Fusion can make short work of a squad what with 9 Str 6+ Ap 2- Shots. A couple squads or a couple marker lights and suddenly a squad is down.