Heavy weapons in Marine armies

[Nassi]

Hey guys.

 

I'm currently tweaking an army list, and im struggling with regards to my heavy weapon load outs. Specifically, im not sure what is the best way to spread heavy weapons around my army list.

 

My army is themed to be anti-horde, but as it is a UM army, it also adheres to the codex in reagrd to an army being able to deal with all threats. With this in mind, I armed both my tactical squads with Missle Launchers, and armed my Devistator Squad with 2x heavy bolter, 2x Lascannon. However, this feels rather unweildy. I dont want to combat squad the devistators, as i feel that would lead to them being picked off, and have less models to take wounds off the heavy weapons, but as it stands, its not a very competent unit (its a 1500 pts list).

 

So Firstly.. Are Lascannons nessicary in today's Meta game? Do missle launchers pack enough punch to deal with possible MC or enemy heavy armour, or is a lascannon or 2 the only way to go? Escpecially considering a lascannon in a devistator squad is the same price as a rhino =s

 

Secondly.. How often do you utilalise heavy weapons in tactical squads. I have often believed that a tactical squads strength is in it's manouverability, and using a heavy weapon stunts this. Should i rely on my Tactical squads heavy weapon to be a part of the game, or just consider it a bonus if i can use it occassionally.

 

 

I've also considered combat squading a unit, and taking a TL Lascannon razorback, but as mentioned prevoiusly, im not fond of combat squading. I feel it defeats the purpose of taking larger units in the first place.

So, how often do you break down your squads into combat squads, and how effective do you find that to be?

 

 

Finally. how would you load out 2x tactical squads and a devistator squad to deal with -primarily- anti-horde (anti-nid) enemies, but also to be prepared to deal with "any battlefield threat"?

 

 

Many thanks, Nassi (Sorry the spelling is shocking =/)

[Iron Father Rik]

Missile launchers, missile launchers and more missile launchers. They are free for tactical squads, and arguably the best choice for Devastators. They have the ability to fire templates to take on hoardes, or single missiles to take out armour or tougher infantry. I use 4x missile launcher Devastators, and they work great. They have the flexibility to shoot anything.

 

I think really your only other choice if you want to primarily take on hoardes, but still be able to kill other stuff, is to take a plasma cannon or two, however they are far more expensive than the humble, yet brilliant, missile launcher.

[greatcrusade08]

the 4ML does seem to be the dev squad of choice, of course most people will argue that devs are not the unit of choice in competative games, however i say ignore them and do what you think is right.

i would suggest switching one ML to a lascannon for the signum, BS5 at vehiles is going to cause headaches and the extra AP is going to help with termies too, sure you lose the extra template, but youve still got three to thin the hordes with

[DarkGuard]

OK then, first off, to answer your question about lascannons, no, they are not the king of anti-vehicle anymore. Nowadays it's all about the missile launchers, autocannons, and melta. The first two pop transports from a distance, the last takes any vehicle out from up close, but are essential for AV14. Therefore, chances are, they points you're paying for lascannons would be better spent elsewhere, with you taking missile launchers instead.

 

Now, about Devs. I'm afraid that with your loadout you either combat squad or they perform poorly. Don't be afraid to combat squad though, two new threats. However, the thing to remember about Devs is focus. Some units in the Space Marines army benefit from versatility and options, such as Tactical squads, Sternguard and Land Speeders. Devs are not one of them. You're spending a lot of points on them, assuming you're taking 10 men and 4 heavy weapons, so you need to focus in one area.

 

Here are my two favourite Dev load outs:

10 men, 1x lascannon, 3x missile launchers: this is your anti-transport/MC unit. The missile launchers do the same job as lascannons but keep it cheap. Why the single lascannon? Well it's handy to have a high powered shot anyway, and especially one that can take advantage of the Sergeant's signum and be BS5! And with only one lascannon it's not as cost ineffective as so, multiple lascannons. This unit can stay in the one squad, as you're not missing a lot with a lascannon shot instead of a frag template when shooting infantry, or your can combat squad it. One squad has the Sergeant and lascannon and snipes vehicles, MCs, lone ICs, and the other has all the missile launchers, shooting at light vehicles, MCs, and infantry. A good squad, hampered only by Dawn of War deployment.

 

10 men, 4x heavy bolters: cheap, and throws out a horrible amount of firepower. This unit will mince infantry, and put dents in power armoured squads as well. Can combat squad but not essential. It does struggle against mech though. Also consider swapping in a couple of plasma cannons if you encounter a lot of MEQ.

 

However, I myself prefer rifleman Dreads and Typhoons for their ability to move and fire, and Typhoons in particular are good at taking out everything short of a Terminators and a Land Raider.

 

About Tactical squads, the key here is to give them a focus. Anti-infantry, which is what you want, is best served by giving them a flamer and a combi-flamer. Basically, whatever special you give them, give them the matching combi, you'll be surprised at how much more effective they become, even if it is only for one turn. Then, to give them flexibilty, give them the opposite heavy weapon. So for flamers, give them a multi-melta etc. However, you can never go wrong with a free multi-melta, especially when in a Rhino. I've been using 10 man combi-flamer, flamer, multi-melta squads in Rhinos for a while now, and they are perhaps the best Tactical squad I've used. Lots of infantry killing potential and no one likes multi-meltas.

 

I'd also like the dispel the myth about heavy weapons making Tactical squads slower. They do not. If you don't want to fire it then move, if you don't need to fire it then move. You are sacrificing one bolt shot for a heavy weapon which gives them either more shots, a template, or a different function entirely to let them handle multiple threats. If you're not moving them, then there's a tactical reason why you haven't moved them, whether it is taking a shot of opportunity with your heavy or camping on an objective. However, heavy weapons don't make them slower unless you want to use them.

 

If you want a lascannon on your Razorback, go for the lascannon/ TL-plasma gun Razorback. Same points but much better. Sure your lascannon isn't twin-linked, but you now have another weapon that is.

 

As for your last question, built properly two Tactical squads and a Dev squads can do well together. Personally, I'd take this:

2x 10 man Tactical squads w/ combi-flamer, flamer, MM, Rhino = 215pts

1x 10 man Dev squad w/lascannon, 3x missile launchers, Razorback w/lascannon + TL-plasma gun = 325pts

 

If that's a bit pricy then take the Razorback out, or at least take the turret off and leave it with a heavy bolter. Basically the Dev contingent can blow open the tanks, but so can the Tactical squads if they need to. If the Devs blow the vehicles up, then Tactical squads can rapid fire and flame insides. If it's a Land Raider then the MMs and lascannon can blow up the vehicles, and any Tactical squads not having shot and missile launcher squad can shoot the stuff inside. Together, these guys can make a balanced and cohesive force. To be honest, add an Assault squad in and you've nearly got a half company force, and while not glamorous they are certainly solid and flexible.

[Brother Valerius]

I think lascannons still have a place. Autocannons are useless against AV13, and while missile launchers can pen them, a lascannon will do so more reliably. Against AV14, melta is useless if it's not within 12", which is a pretty significant disadvantage. Yes, a lascannon needs a 6 to pen AV14, but being able to hit tanks across the board is something which is worthwhile in its own right.

 

Personally, because of the range issues with melta, lascannons are my primary anti-tank for heavy armor, and the only melta I take is a few combi-meltas in a DP Sternguard squad. I'd rather have a harder time scratching the paint than have to get right up in the thing's grill to be able to hurt it. I also use Sicarius in anything but small games, so that means I can have one lascannon which is effectively str 10.

 

I don't use Devastators to bring the lascannons, though... too damn expensive (Devs are pricey even without lascannons, worse with them). I use Predator Annihilators. They don't bring quite as many shots, but make up for it by being significantly cheaper, and having one of those shots be twin-linked.

[Rymeer]

Other than the above suggestions, you might consider a couple of dreadnoughts. Standard dreadnoughts, with AC and DCCW, are pretty good... although I like to swap out the storm bolter for a heavy flamer.

 

Four rending shots at str 6 is always good in my opinion, and the basic dreadnought is cheap these days of 5th edition. Lascannons on dreadnoughts just make 'em targets for enemy tanks. They see a Lascannon on a dread, and the dreadnought suddenly becomes a priority target. MM dreadnoughts are fine, but I feel AC dreadnoughts are cheaper, and better for suppressing infantry.

 

Another option, if you have the points to play with, is a short squad of terminators with a cyclone launcher. all 5 or 6 terminators get to fire their storm bolters, AND the one with the Cyclone can shoot his launcher on top of all that. yes, this does mean the terminator with the cyclone shoots two weapons a turn, that -IS- legal.

 

Someone mentioned speeders. yes, they are also pretty decent bang for the buck. Especially tornadoes with their AC's and HB's. Typhoons and tempests are good as well. It all depends on what you plan to face.

 

I suggest that you should consider having more models than you plan to fight with. This allows you to swap out units, or figures in a unit, easily. A small stack of 4x6" cards with total costs for each unit variation makes set up fairly fast. 'Deal me in', literally. :D

 

I'm all for that lascannnon, and 3 missile dev squad idea. It makes sense, it' cheap, and flexible.

 

My own dev squads are set up so I can swap members in and out in anticipation of what my opponent will field. I have enough to have 4 of each weapon type, as well as enough extra missile launchers to outfit every tactical squad I have. The same is true with the MM and HB's as well.

 

Trying to make an 'all round', 'good against everything' army is a waste of your time. Sure, you'll do fair against some armies, but you'll get your head handed to you by most. Anticipating your foe's options, and configuring your army to counter it, is part of the game.

 

Also, by having more, and being more flexible, you'll stop opponents from creating 'kill my army' lists, configured JUST to blow you away. I know quite a few players that have negative reactions to my owning so many figures ( ALL painted), that I can mix n match to take on just about anyone in under half an hour. They never know if I'm going to field an all infantry force, mostly tank force, mixed mechanized force, or highly mobile force, etc... so their ability to make up an army lists configured just to smack my marines is pretty much useless, and they HATE that. :)

 

It's your army, do as you want.

 

Just my ideas,

 

Rymeer

[TyrionTheImp]

First Question: No Lascannons are NOT needed, that being said, if you take them, take them in number, problem with that is it becomes costly. It's been mentioned that taking the one lascannon to use the signum in a dev squad can be useful, I personally don't like them as I don't see the cost adding much to the effect. Maybe if they were AP 1, I'd reconsider, but as it stands there's not much of a benefit going from Str 8 AP3 to Str 9 AP2 when it comes to busting tanks for the vast cost difference. Meltas are for killing heavy armor anyways, any marine list can bring more than enough melta to handle anything as it is available in EVERY SLOT in usually CHEAP and HIGH QUANTITY. Sure, a lascannon CAN dent a AV14 across the table, but it's a very slim chance, and not being AP 1 that chance just becomes that much slimmer. Also, most AV13 fronts have much lower side armor, and with proper deployment and enough firepower you can exploit that fairly easily.

 

Second question: ALWAYS take a heavy weapon in your tactical squad, you trade 1 bolter shot for the ability to fire a heavy weapon, and in my opinion the best options are free anyways. I see two options for tactical heavy weapons, one for combat squading the other for full squads.

 

For combat squads, take a missile launcher. It's free and you get a Str 8 shot in the back field, don't feel obligated to take a Razorback for combat squads either, rhinos have an open hatch which you can fire two weapons out of (your special and a combi-weapon usually work great for that) and still be able to shoot your missile launcher. You need backfield scoring elements usually anyway, and this is a great way to get them, plus in kill point games you can not combat squad and not give up that extra kill point that scouts might.

 

For a full squad load out there's the popular rhino multi-melta bunker. Park it mid field and you create a very large psychological area where your opponent may have second thoughts about going. Again, the multi-melta is free, so you're not paying anything for it even if you don't use it, but it does play with your opponent sometimes.

 

What about Heavy Bolters and Plasma Cannons though? Heavy bolters on anything other than a dakka pred or typhoon pretty much sucks, it's just not worth it. Tacticals come with bare bones bolters, which are fine, they don't need extra anti-infantry unless you wanna take flamers, on Dakka Preds they work because you get two of them plus an auto cannon pumping out a lot of high strength shots, anywhere else it's just "meh". Plasma Cannons many people swear by, I don't. Blast weapons are very fickle (could just be my dice) and it's hit or miss most of the time, and with cover abound it's not hard to negate that AP 2 with a 4+ cover. Are they awesome when they melt half a tactical squad or other heavy infantry? Yes. Will they do that every game? Don't count on it.

 

Third Question: Combat squads are great if used right, I like putting them in Rhinos with usually combi-melta/meltagun half in Rhino, with ML guarding backfield, again don't feel obligated to use Razorbacks when you combat squad, especially with C:SM, Wolves and BA do it better. The advantage of this is that if you're playing kill points, you don't give up extra KP's when you don't have to, where as if you bring say 5 sniper scouts with cloaks they probably won't do that much in a KP game and most of their value is lost because they aren't terribly killy. Again, remember Rhinos have top hatches, Razorbacks don't.

 

Final Question: Looking at those three units in a vacuum, it's hard to say really, not much advice can be given without seeing the rest of your list, but here's probably what I would do

 

2x 10 man tactical squads, combi-flamer sarge, flamer, multi-melta, Rhino.

5 man Devastator squad 4x ML

 

The Missile Launcher is good for everything any anything, frags can kill hordes, kraks can put wounds on MC's reliably, and they're cheap. The two tactical squads can burn through hordes with templates firing out of the Rhino, or rapid fire if disembarked. Multi-melta gives you that take-all-comers edge against mech armies, and flamers are in general good against any infantry, two of them can put a lot of wounds on things.

[DarkGuard]

Trying to make an 'all round', 'good against everything' army is a waste of your time. Sure, you'll do fair against some armies, but you'll get your head handed to you by most. Anticipating your foe's options, and configuring your army to counter it, is part of the game.

 

 

Rymeer

 

I'm sorry, have kind of lifted this out of context, but this sounds a bit like tailoring. Maybe a bit of a distinction. Blind good against everything may struggle, good against everything in your metagame, on the other hand, is the way to go. I don't tailor my lists for specific opponents, but if I know that most of my opponents are using Marines I'll choose choices that do well against them. If they're meching up I'll tank my anti-mech stuff etc. Tailoring on the other hand is certainly frowned on at my LGS, and in many other places I'd guess as well.

 

Also, I do find that stuff that can kill hordes do a good job against Marines, purely from the principle of making them roll more saves will result in them failing some. On the other hand, dedicated anti-MEQ weaponry will often struggle against hordes as they don't have the shots for them. In effect, it comes own to what is played in your area. Bringing a list geared towards killing Terminator spam when most people play Orks will result in you Bringing a list with a couple of weapons for the odd Terminator spam, and focussing the rest on hordes will work. It comes down to what suits you best.

[Captain Idaho]

Got to say I don't quite agree with everything above. Missile Launchers are distinctly average fighting vehicles (you actually need a 3+ to penetrate AV10!) so some times you need to have something with a bit of oomph to hurt things at long range.

 

Lascannons do fit this bill being the main option available. The crucial way to get them into the list is NOT through Devastators or even Razorbacks in my opinion as these are expensive. Better to put a couple in Tactical squads for cheap (though combat squading is needed here to be an efficient choice), on a Predator platform (either sponson or in the turret, not really both for cost reasons) and on Dreadnoughts (you get a reasonable wicket keeper with a Lascannon and Dreadnought CCW or can put a Missile Launcher for a mobile weapons platform).

 

Basically what I'm suggesting is stick a Lascannon into units or on vehicles which are multi-tasked (or do so to turn them into multi-tasking units). This isn't very popular normally as people like their units to be specialised down a particular role instead. But by doing making some of your units multi-tasked like this, particularly those which aren't that good anyway (Tacticals aren't smashing through the enemy on their own), you don't have to dedicate further points to their inclusion.

 

This spreads them around your army for sure but is cheap enough to enable you to get other weapons into the list (Typhoons and other Landspeeders etc) and have a few of them.

[spartan249]

Land Raiders are another way to get some lascannons on your side. High armor, transport cap, LoS blocker, and gunline anchor.

 

In any case, for tactical versatility, I think plasma cannons, missile launchers, and assault cannons give you all you need. The other weapons fill certain niches and do them very well.

[nurglephill]

This thread is actually covering the very thing I was looking to find out about, so many thanks to you all for the contributions :)

 

Can I ask though, what do you think of a Landspeeder Squadron with multi meltas as a tank hunting option? Or perhaps even attack bikes? Do these work or are they to easy to take down?

[BrotherWasted]

I think lascannons still have a place. Autocannons are useless against AV13, and while missile launchers can pen them, a lascannon will do so more reliably. Against AV14, melta is useless if it's not within 12", which is a pretty significant disadvantage. Yes, a lascannon needs a 6 to pen AV14, but being able to hit tanks across the board is something which is worthwhile in its own right.

 

Wrong. An Autocannon has an statistically IDENTICAL chance of penetrating AV13 compared to a Lascannon purely because it is a Heavy 2 weapon.

 

Autocannon: 4/6 chance to hit * 1/6 chance to penetrate * 2 shots = 0.2222222222 chance of penetrating

Lascannon: 4/6 chance to hit * 2/6 chance to penetrate * 1 shot = 0.222222222 chance of penetrating

 

As an Autocannon is cheaper, you logically do not have any reason to take a Lascannon when you have melta weapons and other S10 options available to go to work on AV14.

[Tangamarine]

An autocannon has stastically no chance of penetrating a AV13 vehicle, as it is only strength 7.

 

Individual multimelta speeders work well, especially with vulkan, and a heavy flamer underneth :)

[Captain Idaho]

I think lascannons still have a place. Autocannons are useless against AV13, and while missile launchers can pen them, a lascannon will do so more reliably. Against AV14, melta is useless if it's not within 12", which is a pretty significant disadvantage. Yes, a lascannon needs a 6 to pen AV14, but being able to hit tanks across the board is something which is worthwhile in its own right.

 

Wrong. An Autocannon has an statistically IDENTICAL chance of penetrating AV13 compared to a Lascannon purely because it is a Heavy 2 weapon.

 

Autocannon: 4/6 chance to hit * 1/6 chance to penetrate * 2 shots = 0.2222222222 chance of penetrating

Lascannon: 4/6 chance to hit * 2/6 chance to penetrate * 1 shot = 0.222222222 chance of penetrating

 

As an Autocannon is cheaper, you logically do not have any reason to take a Lascannon when you have melta weapons and other S10 options available to go to work on AV14.

 

Awesome Avatar.

 

As said above, a Lascannon can penetrate AV13 + AV14, but an autocannon can't. Plus, you can only fit autocannons on 2 Platforms in the entire army where as Lascannons come in plenty of units and vehicles.

[DarkGuard]

This thread is actually covering the very thing I was looking to find out about, so many thanks to you all for the contributions :)

 

Can I ask though, what do you think of a Landspeeder Squadron with multi meltas as a tank hunting option? Or perhaps even attack bikes? Do these work or are they to easy to take down?

 

No worries, it's what we're here to do.

 

As for your question, you are suggesting the two prime options for our fast melta choices. Well I lie, a little. The main choice is between Land Speeders with heavy flamers and multi-meltas, and multi-melta attack bikes. The former weighs in at 70pts, and the latter at 50pts.

 

Why pick the MM/HF Speeder? For superior mobility, immunity to most small arms fire and duality. You're able to blow tanks up with the multi-melta and flame infantry with the heavy flamer, meaning you'll always have a target. Meanwhile, as a skimmer you can fly over objects and attack from unexpected angles.

 

And why pick the MM ABs? Cheaper, in that two MM/HF Speeders are 140pts and three MM ABs are 150pts. With a lower size profile they're easier to hide, and when turbo boosting they get a better cover save. Furthermore a boltgun or plasma gun can't kill them in one shot, and they can't get shaken or stunned out of action, though krak missiles will hit harder. The trade-off? Reduced mobility means that you can't fly over terrain with driving through it being more dangerous. Is actually harder to hide before a kill because of this. Also, loss of duality. I know they have TL-boltguns but they won't do much compared to a heavy flamer. Lastly, they aren't mech, and in mech forces that can sometimes matter.

 

They can also go into combat, which can be bad because they can be locked in combat unlike Speeders. However, they can also lock other units in combat, unlike Speeders. In the end it comes down to your preference and budget.

[Dremen]

One thing people are overlooking is the Noble Plasma Cannon. Yes its a bit of a points sink at 25 points for Devs. However it combines the ability to take on swarm armies with its blast template and at Str 7 its powerful enough to drop most dedicated transports and light vehicles. It does suffer from Gets Hot! but I've found it just as reliable as a Heavy bolter with a bit more bang for tougher opponents (Mine somehow enjoy burning bright blue holes in Daemon Princes).

[greatcrusade08]

what about sternguard, lascannons are pretty cheap for those guys..

[Lord Ragnarok]

With the silver wave coming (grey knights), do we think that plasma cannons in tacs will be a more worthwhile choice?

[BrotherWasted]

Gah, my bad, I am confusing my regular Autocannons with the Grey Knight Autocannon+Psycannon Bolts. Would delete my previous post if I could.

 

On that subject, though they lack the range, Assault Cannons actually function better than a Lascannon when it comes to penetrating AV13, but unfortunately they are quite difficult to come by in C:SM.

 

4/6 to hit * 1/6 to trigger rending * 4/6 to get 2+ on the additional D3 Armor Pen * 4 Shots = 0.2962963

Lascannon = 0.2222222222 as previously stated

 

For AV14, they are still better than a Lascannon:

 

4/6 to hit * 1/6 to trigger rending * 2/6 to get a 3 on +D3 Armor Pen * 4 Shots = 0.14814815

Lascannon = 0.11111111

[Grey Mage]

.... and armed my Devistator Squad with 2x heavy bolter, 2x Lascannon. However, this feels rather unweildy. I dont want to combat squad the devistators, as i feel that would lead to them being picked off, and have less models to take wounds off the heavy weapons, but as it stands, its not a very competent unit (its a 1500 pts list).

 

So Firstly.. Are Lascannons nessicary in today's Meta game? Do missle launchers pack enough punch to deal with possible MC or enemy heavy armour, or is a lascannon or 2 the only way to go? Escpecially considering a lascannon in a devistator squad is the same price as a rhino =s

 

Secondly.. How often do you utilalise heavy weapons in tactical squads. I have often believed that a tactical squads strength is in it's manouverability, and using a heavy weapon stunts this. Should i rely on my Tactical squads heavy weapon to be a part of the game, or just consider it a bonus if i can use it occassionally.

Combat Squad the Devastators and/or upgrade to missile launchers.

 

Youll have the same number of wounds, in total, to go through- and you should be placing these guys in cover with good arcs of fire, wich will help their resilience alot.

 

I think that above 1k a Lascannon or 2 should probly be seen in most balanced lists- its great for popping transports, and its needed sometimes for killing the big things- like the monolith. Sure, its not as good as a railcannon- what is?- but its alot better than a missile launcher in that it can pen anything out there.

 

In general though, alot of missile launchers in your tacticals is not a bad way to go- theyre a great weapon, flexable with good range. I wouldnt personally put heavy bolters on an infantry unit- way to easy to get them on vehicles, where theyre often more cost-efficient.

 

And I always use my tacticals heavy weapons for the first two-three turns of the game. Why? Because theres always vehicles that need popping and monstrous creatures that need a killin. So take out the mobile threats before you advance, and then use your superior mobility to make up for lost time- with the bonus of knowing your opponents been weakened.

[Brother Valerius]

Gah, my bad, I am confusing my regular Autocannons with the Grey Knight Autocannon+Psycannon Bolts. Would delete my previous post if I could.

 

On that subject, though they lack the range, Assault Cannons actually function better than a Lascannon when it comes to penetrating AV13, but unfortunately they are quite difficult to come by in C:SM.

 

4/6 to hit * 1/6 to trigger rending * 4/6 to get 2+ on the additional D3 Armor Pen * 4 Shots = 0.2962963

Lascannon = 0.2222222222 as previously stated

 

For AV14, they are still better than a Lascannon:

 

4/6 to hit * 1/6 to trigger rending * 2/6 to get a 3 on +D3 Armor Pen * 4 Shots = 0.14814815

Lascannon = 0.11111111

 

You're only computing probability to get the job done when the target is in range; however, range is an important factor which can tip the balance. Granted, it's not something you can plug into an equation very easily, but it is real nonetheless.

 

Also, your numbers are slightly off, FYI. You can't multiply by 4 to calculate the chance across those four shots, it's a bit more complex. You negate the probability of the pen with one shot (so, .96296...), which is your chance to fail to pen. Then raise that to the fourth power. That is the chance you will have failed to pen every time. Negate this, and you get the probability you will have penned at least once. So, for example, vs AV14:

 

Assault Cannon: .140119035

Lascannon: .111111111

 

Vs AV13:

 

Assault Cannon: .264970147

Lascannon: .222222222

 

It's mostly academic since the AssCan is still more likely to pen within one round, but it's always good to crunch the numbers right. :lol:

 

Actually, I changed my mind. I'll throw the range into consideration just for giggles anyway. This is making the assumption that the tank starts out outside of or just at the edge of the lascannon's range (which, I admit, is the most favorable scenario for the lascannon, but it is a plausible one). The AssCan has a range of 24", the lascannon 48". Thus, if the tank moves 12" every turn from the moment it enters into the lascannon's range, the lascannon will have two turns where the AssCan cannot touch the tank. So, over 3 turns, the AssCan will have fired four shots, the lascannon three. That gives us the following chance that a pen has occurred (vehicle is AV14):

 

Assault Cannon: .140119035

Lascannon: .297668038

 

So, in this scenario (and plinking away at a tank across the board while it barrels towards you is a pretty common scenario, in my experience), the lascannon is roughly twice as effective because it has been able to fire almost as many shots due to its range advantage.

[Grey Mage]

With the silver wave coming (grey knights), do we think that plasma cannons in tacs will be a more worthwhile choice?

When I play C:SM its those or Missile Launchers in tacticals.... every time.

[Captain Idaho]

I quite enjoy getting the cheap specialised heavy weapons into my list through my Tacticals. Extra Lascannons go down a treat as the list otherwise pays a large amount for it's lascannons.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Based on what the OP stated, its possible to give your tactical squad a combi-flamer+flamer which, alongside all the tacticals bolter weapons, facilitates a pretty powerful anti-infantry drive. A missile launcher ties in with infantry killing thanks to its template, but a multi-melta helps the squad out in a midfield position and packs a powerful anti-vehicle punch, which will help keep all but suicidal vehicles off the squads back!

 

 

Almost all the heavy choices are good as long as the squad it is in makes full use of the weapon :)

[Br.Pat]

In my honest opinion the best weapon is the Multi-Melta. The ML just doesn't have the oomph to be very effective. Yes, it's free but it's not really optimal for tactical squads. I'll try to explain why:

 

If you want to use the ML effectively you have to sit back and fire. However this means that you bolters and special weapon will be out of range. While this is okay against horde armies because they'll come to you anyway, it doesn't really encourage aggressive play. Okay, maybe you want to defend an objective... in that aspect it's not bad, however there are better choices.

 

A Multi-Melta on the other hand is more versatile. Put that squad in a rhino and drive up to midfield. You basically have a 24" Melta cushion. The enemy would not want to get very close. The MM's range also works synergistically with the bolter's range, and has a better profile than a ML even out of melta range. Give the squad a flamer and a combi melta and you can basically move and fire thanks to the rhino's firing points.

 

All other options are too expensive. With the exception of the heavy bolter which is rubbish.