The Swarmlord

[Biaz]

Hi all!

 

I've recently played a few games against tyranids, and my opponent always has the Swarmlord with tyrant guard as his HQ. With his high toughness, multiple wounds (combined with those of his guard) and fleet, I'm finding him pretty hard to put down before he tears into my men and wreaks havoc.

 

Have you had any dealings with him, or suggestions on how to stop him? Thanks!

[Man Behind The Curtain]

vindicator's demolisher cannon and obliterators or havocs with twin linked plasma guns., will utterly beat all tyranid monstrous creatures.

 

Its important to soften them up at range with demolisher cannons plasma cannons and las cannons first.

 

then finish them off at close range with plasma guns

 

as you can see obliterators are PERFECT for this!

 

what makes swamrlords and tyrants harder to take on than other nid M/Cs is the potential bodyguards requiring you to use mass AP2 high str weapons. Within a marine army the only palces to find mass AP2 firepower are plasma cannons and demolisher cannons, which limits you to vindicators, obliterators, and dreadnaughts.

 

dreadnaughts are also useful against other tyrnaid M/Cs whose low Initiative cripples them in close combat but against tyrants they are just scrap metal waiting to happen.

 

vindicators with their large blast marker maximum str and AP2 are of course perfect for blasting apart squads of tyrantguard and tyrants aswell as massed gaunts.

 

but for my money point for point obliterators are the best possible thing for dealing with these tyrant guard protected tyrants, as their huge list of weapons options makes them intensely versatile as well as superior in range to the vindicator and capable of taking high ground.

 

due to their high initiative i wouldn't even try to touch the swarmlord in closecombat which puts defilers dreadnaughts and DPs out of the question though they are all very valid choices for dealing with fexes and other nid M/Cs

[Boltergeist]

Yep, obliterators are the way to go; Las at long range, twin plasma at short, then back into difficult ground if they are going to assault. No grenades mean they go at I1, so Oblits/powerfists will go at the same time and likely ruin their day. If you do this with Abbadon once they are softened a bit you'll finish them before they can swing. However, the "drops your WS to 1" power it has can mess up your plan, so it's best to shoot them if possible.

[Dreachon]

Shoot him, no seriously shoot him, don't get into cc with it.

Long range lascannons, then as they get closer switch to plasmaguns and meltaguns.

[Captain Tezdal]

I'd throw Berzerkers at him, my strategy for everything.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

There's not an easy solution to the Swarmlord/Tyrant Guard death star. You could dump plasma into them and hope to whittle away the Guard before they reach you, but the odds are you won't ablate enough Wounds to matter, and that T6 means they won't just drop dead. You could run a gamble and try and tarpit them with a 1K Sons squad (AP3 bolters everywhere to deal with the Guard, and you have the same Saves as the Swarmlord does in CC) and hope that when the Swarmlord reaches them, they can hold out in CC long enough against him for the Asp Sorc to get his force weapon into the Swarmlord and pop him in a single shot (he's not EW and can be singled out in CC). You'll lose the majority of the squad (Swarmy hits at I6 with a lot of power attacks that force re-rolls of Invul Saves), but your best bet to instagig him is the force weapon, barring burying a Slaanesh Lord in there with a Blissgiver to double your odds.

 

It will be very messy, but it might work.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

I gotta agree, Las and Plas from afar and then run a 1k sons tarpit. Throw Warptime on the Aspiring and off you go.

[Notanoob]

Now, as a Tyranid player myself, I can tell you more.

 

First, any nid player worth his salt will know to screen the Deathstar extensively with Termagants supported by a Tervigon. What this does is bog down any foolish attempts at assault and provide cover for the Swarmlord. Now you may be wondering how they cover 50% of the big MC, and the answer is they don't. What they do is give cover to the much shorter and non-MC Tyrant Guard, who by virture of being in the same unit provide a cover save to the Swarmlord. This makes shooting at him useless, as not only do you have to chew through tons of T6 wounds, but they also get cover and maybe even FNP if you're getting close to killing him.

 

So what are you to do if you can't plasma him into submission? You shoot the Tervigon. A lot. That bugger is tough, but when he goes down, those Termagants not only take 3D6 S3 hits, which is brutal to those T3 Sv6+ guys. It'll whittle out the brood, and deny them the benefits of Counter Attack, Furious Charge, Poison 4+ and Feel No Pain. So with this big juicy brood, what do you do? You multicharge. If you can get a good number of Termagants alive and stuck in assault with the Swarmlord, you can have your CSMs focus almost all of their attacks on the Termagants, and drown the Swarmlord in No Retreat! wounds.

 

Final note, don't waste time with your own heavy hitters. The Swarmlord is designed to crush Terminators and such with an insane WS, S, A, free PE, Forcing you to reroll successful Invulnerable saves, and Paroxysm which can reduce you to WS1. Just send in a ton of plague marines, who can better withstand the hits back, and thus increase the number of saves he'll have to take via No Retreat!

 

Also, don't Plague Marines have poison daggers or something like that? It'd make them much better at forcing saves on the T6 guys.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Also, don't Plague Marines have poison daggers or something like that? It'd make them much better at forcing saves on the T6 guys.

 

We're operating on the assumption that there is no Tervigon present, since OP didn't mention one.

 

Also, no, PMs don't have Poisoned anything. That was the last Codex. Only Typhus and Plague Lords with Plaguebringers get Poisoned weapons. Sending in PMs to assault Swarmlord + Guard is suicide on every level; they can't bring him down on pure CC alone, and get no Saves or FNP vs his boneswords. At least 1K Sons stand a chance to survive at least one combat phase even with the Invul re-roll.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

Rhinos could also be used to tank shock the "screen" out of the way. Yes, I know they're fearless, but they'd still have to move out of the way and stay 1" away from the vehicle. Properly executed a multiple shock clears a nice little path or herds units where you want them to go.

[Notanoob]

Also, don't Plague Marines have poison daggers or something like that? It'd make them much better at forcing saves on the T6 guys.

 

We're operating on the assumption that there is no Tervigon present, since OP didn't mention one.

 

Also, no, PMs don't have Poisoned anything. That was the last Codex. Only Typhus and Plague Lords with Plaguebringers get Poisoned weapons. Sending in PMs to assault Swarmlord + Guard is suicide on every level; they can't bring him down on pure CC alone, and get no Saves or FNP vs his boneswords. At least 1K Sons stand a chance to survive at least one combat phase even with the Invul re-roll.

Well, as I said, I'm a Tyranid player and I honestly can't imagine running my list any differently.

 

As for the PMs thing, I suggested them for a few reasons:

1. Thousand Sons suck and are rarely ever taken. Their guns are useless against T6 guys with cover, and their Aspiring Champion has no chance of IDing Swarmy because of SitW and he can't use the Force weapon and Warptime. I know you didn't mention it, but those are some of the principle advantages of taking them.

2. They are less effective in close combat than Plaque Marines, as TS don't have BP+CCW, so they will kill very few Termagants even.

3. PM's are still T5, which makes them better at surviving the Swarmlord, as he's looking at 4/9 attacks killing PMs (2/3 hit, 2/3 wound), where TS will die 15/36 of the time (2/3 hit, 5/6 wound, 3/4 fail their invulnerable save). That ruffs out to give the Plague Marines a 3% advantage in durability over the Thousand Sons.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

Bad math dude. 4/9 = 16/36 therefore Thousand sons have the 3% advantage.

 

What does SitW (use full name please) do anyway? Sons can use two powers a turn currently, does it stop that?

 

Standard Sons tactic is to open up with the bolters at about 4" away, doubt there's any cover at that range. And volume of fire usually takes care of the higher toughness.

[Notanoob]

Bad math dude. 4/9 = 16/36 therefore Thousand sons have the 3% advantage.

 

What does SitW (use full name please) do anyway? Sons can use two powers a turn currently, does it stop that?

 

Standard Sons tactic is to open up with the bolters at about 4" away, doubt there's any cover at that range. And volume of fire usually takes care of the higher toughness.

Gah, bad math indeed. However, at that point the buff in durability is negligible, and you'll rather be using PMs anyways.

 

Shadow in the Warp. It forces you to take your psychic tests on 3D6 and suffer from Perils on doubles of 1 or 6. I just forgot that TS Aspiring Sorcerers can use 2 powers a turn.

 

And the cover save will come from Termagants with Feel No Pain from a Tervigon, as I mentioned earlier. Most Tyranid players who know what they're doing will run something like this to ensure that their big expensive Swarmlord doesn't get shot up on his long march across the board.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

How about we just spawn him then.

 

Two attempts per turn, just need to pass the psychic test and roll a six. Bam! Dead Swarmlord.

 

Does the Swarmlord have an invuln? If so it's a bit trickier but still sound I think.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Does the Swarmlord have an invuln? If so it's a bit trickier but still sound I think.

 

4++ in close combat.

[Brother Nihm]

Have you had any dealings with him, or suggestions on how to stop him? Thanks!

A few things that have worked for me,

 

1. Ignore him until the very late game, because we (Chaos) do not have the luxury of having enough long-range anti-tank weapons to deal with him and his guard when they are screened.

2. Surround him or box him in as best as you can with Rhinos that move at cruising speed.

3. Use sacrificial units to keep him busy, Lesser Daemons are good for this.

4. When you ignore the Swarmlord you leave your units to deal with other things, use this to the fullest. Take out his support units and other threats. If your tarpit/sacrificial unit(s) are gone by the game you reach turns 5+, consider 'castling up' and throw massed units at the Swarmlord. Works best if you pack Powerfists in several squads and of course only do it if it means you would complete your Mission objectives (directly or indirectly).

 

 

My 2 Kraks

[Biaz]

Wow, thanks for all the quick responses guys!

 

Obviously there's no silver bullet, but i look forward to mix and matching some of these strategies, will make it so much more rewarding when i bring the bugger down!

 

We'll put the fear of the gods into him yet!

[minigun762]

3. Use sacrificial units to keep him busy, Lesser Daemons are good for this.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking of. 10 LD is a whopping 130 points and while the reroll Inv save means their 5++ is really only a 6++, at least its something and the reduced price of each unit still makes for a better tarpit.

[darknightdrako]

Also, just to let you know the Swarmlord does not have fleet.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Also, just to let you know the Swarmlord does not have fleet.

 

No Hive Tyrant does. ;)

[Biaz]

haha, oh really? Thank god! Can't wait to point that out to him next time, maybe i can melt him before he reaches me now! :P

[BassWave]

Also, just to let you know the Swarmlord does not have fleet.

 

No Hive Tyrant does. :P

 

No, but a nearby Tervigon can grant it Onslaught which allows the selected unit to run, shoot, and assault if I remember correctly :blush:

[darknightdrako]

Onslaught psy power - The unit may both run, and then shoot in the same shooting phase. A unit under the effect of Onslaught may not assault unless it also has the fleet ability. :blush:

[Brother Nathan]

surely abbadon/typhus could make a heck of a dint in him...combined with whatever firepower you can spare from the rest of the army...

[BassWave]

Onslaught psy power - The unit may both run, and then shoot in the same shooting phase. A unit under the effect of Onslaught may not assault unless it also has the fleet ability. :lol:

 

Thanks for the clearing up :)