Choosing BA

[Autobot Tran]

Hello, I am brand new to WH40k and after looking at some armies for my first i narrowed it down to Space Wolves, Blood Angels and... Grey Knights.

 

In our group we already have a lot of Space Wolves players and i dont like to be the guy that comes in with a cheesy army with the Grey Knights so the first army I tried was Blood Angels.

I would describe my playstyle as a person who likes to be very mobile and heavy on the assault side.

 

I whipped up a 1750 pt army

to keep it short i had

 

Dante + Sang Priest with 5 SG (I wanted to use them because they just looked so cool!) they did a lot of damage but at a very high pt cost so I'm not sure if i would run them again

 

7 DC with Chaplain in a StormRaven.

This was my biggest concern because i think DC are an awesome unit, however, I hate rage! I hate not being able to build a strategy with my units and letting my opponent dictate what happens with my units. I got out of the stormraven and was pretty much running around till turn 5 and the game ended and my DC couldnt back up my units. Should i field them with Jump packs? at least that way they can fly to one unit kill them then make it to the next one relatively quickly

 

Vindicator + 2 assault squads + Furiouso Dread

 

Also i haven't discovered the reasoning for combat squading. I tried it and when my opponent made it to my 5 man squad they got annihilated.

 

I was wondering if there were any other really awesome units like the SG and DC in the BA army that i could try out. Because when i look towards SW they have the Thunderwolf cavalry which I think are one of the coolest things in the game, and when i look to GK well all their models look really cool. But i want to keep giving BA a shot, Im just wondering what units are good for them, that look cool and are strong hammers.

 

thanks for any advice!

[Decoy]

Problem with the BA is that they really -don't- have a mobile side. They're fast, aye, but by and large, that fastness is wasted on getting as close to the enemy as possible while hoping and praying that they make every armor save that comes their way. They have some long range firepower (or very close range, with a Baal with flamers), and they have some close range firepower, but for mid-range (A.K.A., half of any normal game's duration), they're largely boned in a big way.

 

Moreover, the BA are pretty heavy, points-wise. To make them effective and survivable, they essentially -have- to have a Sanguinary Priest nearby, and those SangPriests are guaranteed points that you're not going to be able to put anywhere else. The Special Characters are completely hit or miss but all of 'em are a fair sink on points, and since regular HQ choices are largely not viable, you're pretty obligated to use 'em. (Observe all the Astro/Mephy lists in the Army List section.)

 

The above two points will rack up anywhere from ... Some BA might want to check my math, because I'm pretty sure it's wrong... anywhere from 200-300 points of your army -before you've bought your first Troop choice-.

 

B.A. are a glass hammer, really. They excel at close combat, but against any army that can shut them down in the midfield (read; Wolves, gunline Marines), they'll struggle. Moreover, especially because of the saturation of things like Storm Ravens and Furioso Dreads, the overarching Metagame has leaned towards an anti-B.A. sort of mentality, one that won't go away swiftly because Grey Knights are in the same vein (if not moreso) than the Blood Angels.

 

 

What it seems like you're trying to play, honestly, is a Wolf army. I know your local meta might be big on Wolves already, but there's a reason for that; they allow a very solid playstyle for many different varieties of lists. You have groundpounders fielding upwards of 100 Marines in a 2000 point game, you've got mobile Razorspam with over 25 Plasmaguns and at the very least seven lascannons, you've got stationary Mech (as I play; lots of Razors, Rhinos, Predators with Infantry numbering around seventy), you've got mobile close range monsters (Ragnar/Wolf Guard [yes please to 60 attacks from a 10-man squad at S5/I5]), you've got longrange gunline (Long Fangs are the best long-range unit in the game right now), you've got the Flank Denial, the Center Denial, the Anti-Troops, the Sunwolf's Eye, the Loganwing, the Powerarmor Loganwing, the myriad of Cavalry lists, the Herohammer (Logan+Ragnar+Ulrik), the Skyscream Wolves (Drop Pods galore!), the Swift Strike Wolves (Bikes/Jumppacks), and even the ubiquitous Wolf Carpet (Fenrisian Wolves+Thunderwolves+Iron Priests on Wolves). This type of versatility is unknown in any other type of army, especially the B.A.; B.A. essentially boils down to "Jump packs and assault" or "Midrange with assaulty support." Your style of play, I'd wager, wouldn't appreciate being bottled into either of those notions. Might I suggest giving Wolves a shot, or even stopping by the Fang to take a look around? You may like what you see, mate.

[SeraphimDeSanguinius]

Problem with the BA is that they really -don't- have a mobile side. They're fast, aye, but by and large, that fastness is wasted on getting as close to the enemy as possible while hoping and praying that they make every armor save that comes their way. They have some long range firepower (or very close range, with a Baal with flamers), and they have some close range firepower, but for mid-range (A.K.A., half of any normal game's duration), they're largely boned in a big way.

 

Bro, I don't know what BA you've played against, but your assessment here is actually just wrong. We are ACTUALLY just as mobile as ANY OTHER marine force.

As well we also have the SAME mid-range power that EVERY OTHER marine has.

Moreover, the BA are pretty heavy, points-wise. To make them effective and survivable, they essentially -have- to have a Sanguinary Priest nearby, and those SangPriests are guaranteed points that you're not going to be able to put anywhere else. The Special Characters are completely hit or miss but all of 'em are a fair sink on points, and since regular HQ choices are largely not viable, you're pretty obligated to use 'em. (Observe all the Astro/Mephy lists in the Army List section.)

 

The above two points will rack up anywhere from ... Some BA might want to check my math, because I'm pretty sure it's wrong... anywhere from 200-300 points of your army -before you've bought your first Troop choice-.

While mostly true, We have a few HQ's that are VERY powerful for a tiny points cost(READ: Librarians, Reclusiarchs; As well Seth and Tycho are phenomenal for their costs.). Yes our special characters are expensive, but whose aren't these days?

B.A. are a glass hammer, really. They excel at close combat, but against any army that can shut them down in the midfield (read; Wolves, gunline Marines), they'll struggle.

I cannot stress this enough. We are EXACTLY THE SAME as other marine codices. We do THE SAME IF NOT MORE shooting. So people play assault lists? Does that speak for every player under our glorious banner? God, no. Now, yes, I understand Tran was asking for advice with an assaulty thing, but you can't base your advice on what you see everyone and their mother play.

 

What it seems like you're trying to play, honestly, is a Wolf army.

STOP RECRUITING IN OUR FORUM!?

I know your local meta might be big on Wolves already, but there's a reason for that; they allow a very solid playstyle for many different varieties of lists. Wolves wolfing wolves on wolves for the wolftime at the wolfpub.This type of versatility is unknown in any other type of army, especially the B.A.; B.A. essentially boils down to "Jump packs and assault" or "Midrange with assaulty support." Your style of play, I'd wager, wouldn't appreciate being bottled into either of those notions. Might I suggest giving Wolves a shot, or even stopping by the Fang to take a look around? You may like what you see, mate.

....

What?

Did you actually just say that?

You should go take a gander at our codex again, then you'll realize, we do codex marines better than codex marines do.

That aside, most of your points range from completely wrong to just overly biased on something you don't know. Just sayin'.

 

 

Now.. The actual point of this thread:

Tran, I would recommend you try putting some assault squads in Rhinos and see how they fair. It's a favored tactic amongst some more veteran players here and I can't say it's bad. It can make you learn patience, and gives you near immunity to small arms fire. Also, if you're dedicated to trying BA, I would drop Dante for now. He is good, but he isn't the most combat centric character. If that is indeed what you're looking for then I would look towards Astorath or perhaps Seth. If you decide to go with the Rhinos then Seth is a very good choice, and he is pretty versatile within an army.

 

I hope this helps, man, and welcome to the Angels!

[Decoy]

Bro, I don't know what BA you've played against, but your assessment here is actually just wrong. We are ACTUALLY just as mobile as ANY OTHER marine force.

 

You can't count mobility if said mobility is at the expense of combat ability. I've played against rush groundpounders, jumppack swarms, a variation of gunline with assaulty support, DoA, and in no case above was I outmaneuvered or outpositioned.

 

As well we also have the SAME mid-range power that EVERY OTHER marine has

 

Except Wolves. Our standard troop choice has incredible anti-infantry/tank mid-range, able to fire out to 24" without being fired on by any of the types of B.A. army that I've described above. That, to me, is telling; when I can shoot at someone and they can't shoot back unless they're specifically kitted for it, that army has a serious midfield issue.

 

 

While mostly true, We have a few HQ's that are VERY powerful for a tiny points cost(READ: Librarians, Reclusiarchs; As well Seth and Tycho are phenomenal for their costs.). Yes our special characters are expensive, but whose aren't these days?

 

Dark Eldar? Eldar? Imperial Guard?

 

 

I cannot stress this enough. We are EXACTLY THE SAME as other marine codices. We do THE SAME IF NOT MORE shooting. So people play assault lists? Does that speak for every player under our glorious banner? God, no. Now, yes, I understand Tran was asking for advice with an assaulty thing, but you can't base your advice on what you see everyone and their mother play.

 

When someone asks for help about a specific thing, I bring up that very specific thing. In this case, the OP asked about Assault. I responded accordingly; assault-based B.A. lists are not kitted out to do almost any shooting outside of outflanking Baals.

 

Also, please don't assume I'm making my judgment based on anecdotal evidence alone. Look throughout this forum. Fairly often, B.A. players themselves describe (sometimes in detail) how woefully inadequate B.A. mid-range and shooting abilities are. To deny a weakness to someone just joining the game isn't quite fair, is it?

 

STOP RECRUITING IN OUR FORUM!?

 

If the guy's looking to play an army, and in his description of his preferences and game style almost perfectly describes the Wolves, why should I sit idly by and make no mention of a potentially superior army based on his playstyle?

 

 

....

What?

Did you actually just say that?

You should go take a gander at our codex again, then you'll realize, we do codex marines better than codex marines do.

That aside, most of your points range from completely wrong to just overly biased on something you don't know. Just sayin'.

 

Yes. I've played against, and with, B.A. armies. I own a Counts-As Wolf army using the B.A. Codex, simply because Wolves can't do an All-Skyclaw army worth a lick (No thank you, 50+ points for a single unarmed Wolf Guard jumppacker). I've attempted various forms of gunline, from long to mid to short ranges, I've attempted Mech, I've attempted Jump-packers and I've attempted groundpounders, all from the B.A. dex, and I can say from conclusive firsthand study that the B.A. have been pigeonholed into jump-packing assaulty armies. They're moderately decent at groundpounding thanks to the SangPriests, but they do not stand out above and beyond even Codex:Space Marines in terms of quality or ability. What they make up in close combat ability and the ability to take a few hits (SP), they lose in other key areas. I've played with the B.A. in almost every possible permutation that the Codex allows, and I was left sorely disappointed by the sheer inability to perform with almost any amount of flexibility.

 

Now.. The actual point of this thread:

Tran, I would recommend you try putting some assault squads in Rhinos and see how they fair. It's a favored tactic amongst some more veteran players here and I can't say it's bad. It can make you learn patience, and gives you near immunity to small arms fire. Also, if you're dedicated to trying BA, I would drop Dante for now. He is good, but he isn't the most combat centric character. If that is indeed what you're looking for then I would look towards Astorath or perhaps Seth. If you decide to go with the Rhinos then Seth is a very good choice, and he is pretty versatile within an army.

 

I hope this helps, man, and welcome to the Angels!

 

 

Seeing the preponderance of Mech lists (as Mech rules the meta at the moment), Assault Squads in Rhinos aren't a bad idea. They're not great, but they're not bad, and they fall about middle of the pack in terms of ability among Marine armies. You just have to mind how you move 'em; Tactical movement and use of terrain, of course, is key, but some times you can't be afraid to sacrifice one Rhino so that three others can continue on their way.

 

I agree with dropping Dante. His model may be cool, but he's really kind of a hard HQ to find a niche for. As mentioned above, he's a good support character but it sounds like you want some big chompy bits. Astorath is fairly decent, and Seth is all right; both are solid choices and won't decimate you points-wise like the monster that is Meph. I'd be wary of Seth, however, simply because any transport he's in will end up as a massive target, and the last thing you want is the little bugger slogging all the way across the board because a stray Plasmagun shot left 'em stranded 23" away, meaning at least two turns of movement. Generally, when you pick a CC character, be it a special character or a homebrew HQ, you'll want him able to move swiftly and efficiently regardless of whether or not his transport has been blown up. Seth requires wise use to get to his prime range, close combat, swiftly.

[Zoatibix]

I had to join this forum just to refute the words of this Space Wolf. Here is a man who would claim prowess and honour yet his tongue is stained black with the lies that pour forth from his mouth. :lol:

 

BA are more mobile than other Space Marines and their list favours assault builds. That said we have similar or better shooting options to most Marine books.

 

BA mobility:

 

1. Fast vehicles doesn't just mean crossing the board faster to deliver troops. It means moving further and still being able to shoot. Given that we have better vehicle options anyway I kinda think that puts us ahead. e.g. your Vindicator gets to move 12" and still fire that lovely big pie plate. A Storm Raven can move 24" and let rip with four anti-tank missiles.

 

2. Jump Packs. Those fast moving Rhinos and Razorbacks can act as a mobile screen for JPing Troops. Heroic Intervention + Vanguard Vets gives you an accurate DS and assault on arrival option.

 

3. Reserved Storm Raven. Tired of enemies cowering in vehicles from your wrathful justice? Open their fetid plasteel tomb and then dump DC into their laps.

 

This kind of speed allows you to concentrate your force against a point in the enemy line and then redeploy faster.

 

Just like other chapters BA get drop pods - those or Storm Ravens can be used to quickly deploy your Furioso or DC Dread into battle. Where it will tear apart entire units unless the opponent does something about them.

 

Sang Guard are woefully expensive for what they can do thanks to some whacky decision whereby they didn't simply get Relic Blades. ::evil:: I would steer clear of them until you have more experience.

 

BA arent a point and click army. For example, Death Co are a powerful unit but I think you need a few more bodies in that unit. They need to be inserted into the enemy line with precision, with an eye to their next target.

 

Combat Squadding is generally for Tac and Dev Squads. Buy a Razorback for a 10man TAC. Send half forward in the RB with a special weapon, keep the other half on your backline with a missile launcher to provide supporting fire. Dev Squads use it to split fire.

 

Most BA players I know use their HQ slots for Libbies and Chaplains - they are not extraordinary heroes in their own right but they give fantastic buffs to units they are with or near. Same goes for Sang priests - their points aren't being wasted because they are buffing the unit they accompany...and any other unit you have within 6"

 

Lastly, and subjectively, Blood Angel armies look better.

[Gv0zD]

Seems like the OP has asked for advice in building BA, not SW. If he decides to run SW, he'd go to the respective forum.

I disagree with the statement that "B.A. are a glass hammer, really". Just NO. No, they're not. I'm not even going to explain it. Just NO.

 

As SW are not Codex Chapter, BA have many codex-goodies, and some of them are really better than Vanilla. Fast vehicles, Vanguard Vets are much better thanks to 1d6 deepstrike scatter, cheaper Devastators, and StormRavens, Baal Predators and Furiosos. Hell, we even have flying Termies (yes, they require skilled hands, but once you muster them - they're great).

There's plenty of good things to choose from.

 

The one mistake that new BA players do is that they assume BA are purely assault force, which is not. They are a very balanced force that performs well both in assault and shooting, depending on the certain list. Some people claim that BA tactical squads are useless, but there are also plenty of people who find them pretty handy, which, again, depend on the play style.

 

If you want an assault-specialized force, go for Black Templars, they're not the most powerful army, but they surely have deadly CC units. May I ask, why did you chose SW, BA, and GK? The most recent Marine armies. Such choice looks like you went for "shiny". I always advice new players "go for fluff first". Choose an army with background you like. Don't chase the newest and most popular armies. Seriously - check Black Templars. If you want assault, you'll get it there.

 

And finally, Zoatibix, you've made good points. Well done!

[Emperors Immortals]

Oh Decoy, you did not just say that!!!

 

 

I really respect and love my Wolves abilities, but BA are almost as good at midrange fire fights.

 

Dont have the extra bolter shots? thats where a JP squad comes into it, cheap Razors for assault troops means a good list for mech and frankly our reclusiarch is probably the best non-named character in the marines dex's today.

 

Having said that, it does take some finesse to be able to go all DoA, and BA are a little tricky to play, but i dont know how you could play all those lists and not be challenged with manouvering or speed (I know youre a good player from your posts, but perhaps some of the BA players are not quite so good?).

 

As for Seth, ive taken him quite a few times and hes done well, not spectacular compared to say Astroboy but quite good for the points.I usually take Tycho or Astroboy or just a plain Reclusiarch as FC.

 

DoA is a tricky army, ive found that podded dreads can really help take a turn of firing away from those squads and provide some excellant back-up.

 

As for DC - learn them, know them, love them. theres 2 options - elite precision strike from a SR or a raider; or cheap mob tactics.I favour a naked squad of 9 (bolters can be a real help) in a pod dropped between 2 large units and just allowed to do there thing.Remember if your DC squad survive teh battle - youve done it wrong.

 

Lastly, decoy is absolutly right about the Rhinos - trust in there iron hide and it will get you through.

 

And perhaps you are describing a wolf army OP, but that doesnt mean you might not also be wanting an angelic host :devil:

 

 

 

 

OH YEAH FLUFF - choose the army that has the nicest lookingm odels in your eye, and the best sounding background to you - because youll be doing a lot of looking at models as you paint, and ad hell of a lot of inspiring reading in your playing career ;p

[Zoatibix]

Firstly, no offense to Decoy. My opening comments were firmly tongue in cheek.

 

i don't however see how BA are weaker than Vanilla in the shooting game - in fact our speed makes us better at shooting in the 18-36" band (what I consider mid range).

 

That said the SW codex is more powerful due to exceptionally...cost effective....units. I've know several SW players claim this is balanced out by various weakness but I disagree with this assessment. Skyclaws being weak is more than compenstated for by the OP GH squad that hits as hard as a vanilla assault squad when you assault it. Doubling of slots for Rune Priests allows better psychic defense without giving up a powerful fighting HQ. There's a reason you see so many SW armies in your area - very often it has nothing to do with the look or background of the army.

 

SWs are more about smashing face. BA about precision and focus.

[Autobot Tran]

Hey guys! thanks a lot for the feedback

 

May I ask, why did you chose SW, BA, and GK?

 

These armies were the 3 that my friends thought i might like, well a few of my friends tried to dissuade me from SW. I am brand new to WH40K universe so i dont have a lot of background on fluff, i am currently reading the Horus Heresy and am only on the second book. Ive only played 4 games and have tried BA twice and Chaos space marines twice.

 

when i said mobility my friends immediately said BA so thats what i went to first but when i saw what the thunderwolf Cavalry could do it honestly just looked like the unit I wanted to play. Honestly I've never played with or against it, but something that can move 12 run then assault(they have fleet right?) just something with that mobility and ability to flank an enemy sounds very tactical and I am very big on tactics. The SG unit looked kind of similar to the thunderwolf so I tried them but they seemed to be killed easier since they dont have invul saves. Anyway I'll learn about that stuff later.

 

Anyhow i want to give BA a few more go around, but i had a few questions. I like the idea of jump packs and deep striking with RAS, maybe going close to a tank and having two meltas and popping it the turn they come in, however they cant assault the turn they arrive (right?) so that would leave them vulnerable to get charged, so im not sure if this is a viable strategy. Im no quite sure why if i was going to run JP RAS why i would walk them in and not just remove it and have all 3 squads in a rhino to make them more resilient (but cant other armies do this?) of course if JP them in i would have Baal predators a vind and dev squad for firing support in the back.

 

I guess my main point is i wanted to try to make a BA list that really highlighted what BA is good for or what their special rules were so i can get a feel of their flavor compared to other armies. Thats why i tried the SG with Dante so they dont scatter and i wanted to Deep strike with things so i can see how useful Descent of Angels is. The only things ive found or heard is that you dont want to Deep strike your RAS because they cant assault the turn they come in, so what is Descent of Angels for? which units benefit from it and where can I maximize this special rule.

 

Also, i dont know how much i can avoid this but i dont particularly like using tanks, obviously i will run a few where needed and i like transport like rhinos i just dont like most of my list to be bogged down by tanks. of course 3-4 isnt anything to complain about. i guess i say this because the person i played my first 4 games against was IG and all he had were tanks! and it did not look fun hahah

 

I like an army that kind of controls the flow of battle, not one that waits around to see what the opponent does and is reactionary. I like to bring the battle to his doorstep and make him react to what im doing, i guess thats why i dont like DC that much because it lets him dictate how I'm going to play that unit.

 

 

Again thanks for the awesome replies, and i hope i get to stick around this board, cuz its the only one ive been reading since i joined this site haha

[Gv0zD]

While Horus Heresy is a great series, when I said "read fluff first" i meant reading Index Astartes articles. They'll provide great insight in every Legion's history, their character and combat doctrine.

 

As for BA unique traits, BA are msotly codex chapter. And while the current codex highly emphasizes Assault Squads, the main force fluff-wise is tactical squads.

 

If you want to go deep stiking jumpy troops, you'll want to check vanguard veterans. They're essential for pure jump list. They can assault on their arrival, while other squads need to wait. But it doesn't make DoA useless. It's another example of BA specific style. You need to employ tactical precision, units' synergy, speed, and not brute force. DoA is nowhere about dropping and attacking. It's about exploiting your opponent's moves and getting into the best positions.

 

Even though BA specialize in assault, they rely on surgical strike, tactical flexibility and support units. Generally they do the things that other chapters do. If you expect them to be brute force, you'll be disappointed. Space Wolves or Black Templars are better in this.

 

But again, codices come and go, rules change, and we can not know what will BA be in 6th ed. If you choose an army judging by their current rules, you may find yourself with what you don't like. I personally chose BA because of their fluff. I loved them in 4th ed, when they weren't among the best armies. I played mech then, now I play both all-jump and mech. But I play BA and not the army that's best in assault. 40k offers you such rich background, and it's a pity when people ignore it. Gather info on different space marine chapters and see what fits you. Maybe you'll end up with Imperial Fists or Salamanders <_<

[Autobot Tran]

While Horus Heresy is a great series, when I said "read fluff first" i meant reading Index Astartes articles. They'll provide great insight in every Legion's history, their character and combat doctrine.

 

Index Astartes articles, that sounds interesting where can I find these articles? do they come in the codices? or is it a separate book? Im all for learning the fluff of the different armies. I got into WH40k from reading the novels first!

[Gv0zD]

Check it here.

[manheim]

To be perfectly honest BA are one of the best mid range armies in the game. Your crux is 5man assault squads with a sang priest in a razorback. Razorbacks are only 20 points for assault squads and an assault cannon on top goes a LONG WAY.

 

If you run forward 12" you can still blast your ass can at something and probably do a bit of damage, it tears through horde armies like nothing and has a higher chance to kill a LR than a lascannon. If you want to get up closer move 18" and then pop smokes, hold for a turn and even if destroyed pop your guys out outside it and charge the next turn. Backed up by a dev squad theres a lot of firepower and support for you to get into close range.

 

If you take something big and scary alot of the time your razorbacks will get mildly ignored (such as a storm raven) and will get up close, even if they do get destroyed a 6 man squad with FNP can take alot of thumping. I havnt seen anything that 2 squads cant take down with 2 powerfists at S9.

 

Another merit to the mech list is that because theyre fast they can always move 7"-12" and fire, meaning anythign assaulting them is only hitting on 6s and they the lads jump out and have at it.

 

SW are a fine army for stuff like ML spam and whatnot but end of the day you have to play something that is fun for you, SW for shooting and then counter attack or BA for a tactical movement game and then a final all out assault.

 

and remember that moving 18" with a razorback and taking an objective last turn with guys in it is infuriating to your opponent!

[Morticon]

Gents,

 

just a note. Decoy is more than welcome to "recruit" wherever he pleases. The BnC is open to all. It's up to us to show the OP why Decoy may or may not be wrong as succinctly and accurately as possible.

 

We're not gonna have any of this nonsense territorial rubbish going on here please. Other forums here may have it, but the BA side of things will welcome in anyone and allow anyone to speak their mind - we just gotta let them know where they're misguided and do that well.

 

Furthermore, lets not turn this into anooooother lame wolves vs. BA thread. Keep to the facts. And keep it clear of flames and trolls.

 

Thanks.

[Autobot Tran]

Hey! thanks for all the replies guys, i made a list and an example of my battle plan and posted it in the Blood Angels Army page titled "1750 army decider list" my friend helped me make it and it is a little more tank heavy than i would like but let me know if it looks like a good list to you guys! thanks hopefully this works out and i can stay BA!

[Crimson Devil]

..... i dont like to be the guy that comes in with a cheesy army with the Grey Knights .....

 

I learned these three things the hard way:

 

1. Don't judge people based on their army choice. You don't know how long the "Cheesey powergamer" struggled through the bad time with an old codex. Case in point; The GK deserve a powerful new dex.

 

Each codex goes through the same pattern.

 

Stage one: Wild rumors; "OMG it's so broken that Grey Knights shoot lascannons out their butts!"

Stage two: The new codex is the CHEESE! I hate bandwagoning power gamers!"

Stage three: Normal play

Stage four: "The fluff is nice, but that army is definitely a second tier list."

Stage five: "I can't believe you still play with that codex. You must like losing."

Stage six: "Our codex is so old and busted. We need lascannon butts!"

 

2. Don't let other players make the decision about what army you play. If you like an army, than it doesn't matter how many other armies of the same type are in that group. Play the one you like and make it your own.

 

3. Build an army, not a codex. The codex you have now will be sitting on the self unused in a few years and all those extremes build will be gathering dust. Plan for that.