Shyft Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 This is a hypothetical idea I had, it's probably way too tight on points, (I don't have the dex to make any estimates) HQ1: GKGM HQ2: Librarian w Shrouding Elites: 1 squad of at least 5 Paladins Troops: 1 squad of 5-10 Terminators Troops: 1 squad of 5-10 Terminators Fast Attack: 1 Storm Raven You'll forgive me for not listing specific options, as I am not 100% aware of what everything is or costed, so I'm playing it safe before overcommitting to any one option. Given the option I would run multiple storm ravens/paladin squads. Anyway, the idea is a Terminator-focused army, with troop-choices filling out your scoring quota, most likely armed with Psycannons so they can move up the board to pop transports or start clearing opposing objectives. If points allow I'd run full-size squads and split them so some can hang back on my own objectives. The two lynch-pins to my strategy lies with a Librarian with Shrouding, and at least 1 Storm-Raven loaded with Paladins. The idea is this: The librarian + Shrouding helps my GKTs move up the board with good cover saves. Or, assuming I can manage Servo Skulls, they could drop mid-field. The GKGM and paladins are in the storm-raven primarily as a 'deathstar' so I hear the term go. They run in, hit some weak part of the enemy line. The Storm-Raven then move around to start popping enemy armor. Depending on the points allowed, I'd prefer to run 2 storm ravens and 2 squads of paladins, possibly moving the Librarian into one of the Ravens for purposes of granting Shrouding to both of them as they fly side-by-side. If points allow again, I'd squeeze a Vindicare in. Obvious downsides: Hugely expensive list, low model count, lack of strong, reliable anti-tank. No Psy-riflemen dreads here, for good or Ill. Upsides: It /sounds/ really fun. Double-Storm Ravens loaded with nearly identical units can split a lot of fire between them, and with the enhanced cover save from Shrouding means they're pretty hard to stop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 With no other vehicles your singular Stormraven will get shot down probably on turn 1, and even if you take two StormRavens, thats a whole lot of eggs in two baskets.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou666 Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 No doubt about it, a TDA army will always be fun. I love stormravens too. I am revolving my new army around terminators, and (suprise suprise) they are all having halberds for I6, and im also maxing out the psycannon quota on every squad. Psycannons are a more reliable source of anti tank firepower than you might think, at strength 7 and rending, youll completly ruin basic transports, and with that pesky +D3 on a rending, you can even pop land-raiders aswell. (also, you will always get the full 4 shots whilst on the move, as termies are relentless! :) ) But, one model that will always be in my lists, without fail, will be the vindicare assassin. I think its something that all GK players should consider from now on. With his special 'guarunteed dead tank' bullets, (4D6 to penetrate? AP1?) you cant afford to leave him out! Also, psyflemans, as you point out would be very good, but sometimes, a better option is there. (Such as two wound terminators!) Talking of you paladins, it is expensive, but make sure the unit is a large as possible, and make sure, that without fail, you have an apothacary. As a blood angels player, i know how valuable FNP can be, and on two wounded termies, it will make them almost unstoppable. good luck with your list. feel free to use ideas! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyft Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 Yeah, there's no denying the fact that this list is basically "Pick your choice of unit, everthing is critical." So those Storm Ravens, 1 or 2, are going to die lickity split. I don't deny this. But I want to have fun, this sounds fun. Storm Ravens screaming in, regular termies walking up the board or Deep Striking, basically just ruining the day of everything forever. And yeah, Psycannons are pretty good anti-tank, they're just 24" range, and I need to be on the table and shooting as soon as possible. ...Now with the GKGM, it'd be boss if I gave the Terminators Scout, so I can get them mid-field and ready to go early on. How good is Counter-attack on Terminators, anyway? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Base cost for the models you lists (assuming 5 Paladins and 20 GKTs): 1610 Psycannons run you another 140pts Servo-Skulls are pretty cheap You could theoretically squeeze that into 1750, but realistically you're probably looking at more than that. And when it comes right down to it, I'm not sure how well 5 small squads of termies (or 1 small and 2 large) will last against other 1750+pt armies. That being said, it sounds like a fantastically fun, not to mention gorgeous, army. Sure, it might not take you to the top of many tournaments, but that's not always the goal. Hell, if I had the models, or the money to buy the models, I'd field an all-TDA army myself, just for the sheer cinematic splendor of it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyft Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 Thank you sir, for the points-cost-estimate. Yeah. I'd prefer to run 2 squads of 10 terminators, 1 squad of 10 paladins, and combat-squad them as necessary for the engagement. So definitely a 2000-2250-2500 list. In a perfect world, I'd rock 1 squad of 10 paladins, 1 squad of 5, and the Vindicare, and take 3 Storm Ravens. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou666 Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 In a perfect world, I'd rock 1 squad of 10 paladins, 1 squad of 5, and the Vindicare, and take 3 Storm Ravens. only in a perfect world could that happen..... :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew B Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Thank you sir, for the points-cost-estimate. Yeah. I'd prefer to run 2 squads of 10 terminators, 1 squad of 10 paladins, and combat-squad them as necessary for the engagement. So definitely a 2000-2250-2500 list. In a perfect world, I'd rock 1 squad of 10 paladins, 1 squad of 5, and the Vindicare, and take 3 Storm Ravens. I'm trying to run a similar list, a few less termies, I don't have that many yet. What I tried to focus on: 1:4 Hammer-Halberd ratio for all the squads. My 5-man Paladin squad will have 2 hammers. Obviously max out Psycannons, since they are relentless you have one awesome weapon. You really need psyrifle dreads for the 4 S8 TL 48" shots. Use at least 2. Combat Squad-ing will indeed be very useful. If you are trying to run a terminator focused list, as opposed to an all terminator list, you could include 10 purifiers with 4 psycannons(combat squad them) with a rhino, it gives you extra mobility, plus their cleansing flame ability can come quite handy at times. I really think 10 man Paladin squads are very cool, the Apothecary and Banner really work best there, but I think they may be too expensive. Plus your obvious enemy the S8+ low AP gun is now a lot stronger because with every shot it can take out a more expensive model. 2 W useless, FNP useless, all the extra points over a normal terminator are thrown in for free. Haven't tested my list yet, waiting for the models to arrive, really want to get feedback from other players using terminator focused list. I think they'll be great fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Thank you sir, for the points-cost-estimate. Yeah. I'd prefer to run 2 squads of 10 terminators, 1 squad of 10 paladins, and combat-squad them as necessary for the engagement. Definitely, definitely definitely, if you can, run your terminator type squads at 10 men. For two reasons: 1) Psybolt ammo costs 20 points whether it is 10 men or 5 men. At the full 10 men it is only 2 points per model. 2) Grand Strategy. Instead of helping d3 units, you're effectively helping 2-6 because of combat squading. You roll a 3? Well now all six of your units can scout, or re-roll ones to wound. Roll a 1? That's ok, because two of your units still get an ability. Grand Strategy with Combat Squading is like a bonus multiplier. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 2) Grand Strategy. Instead of helping d3 units, you're effectively helping 2-6 because of combat squading. You roll a 3? Well now all six of your units can scout, or re-roll ones to wound. Roll a 1? That's ok, because two of your units still get an ability. Grand Strategy with Combat Squading is like a bonus multiplier. Thats an interesting point there. Grand Strategy triggers "before deployment" and Combat Squad triggers "during deployment". Thats pretty awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyft Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 yeah, this all sounds boss. HQ1: GKGM with Psycannon (Master Crafted?) HQ2: Librarian with Shrouding at least Elites: 10x Paladins. 2 Hammers, 8 Halberds, Psycannons, Psybolt ammo bolts (I never used hammers back with the 3rd ed dex, never liked striking last.) Elites: Vindicare Assassin Troops: 10x Grey Knight Terminators, Pyscannons, Psybolt Ammo Troops: 10x Grey Knight Terminators, Pyscannons, Psybolt Ammo Fast Attack: Storm Raven, Probably TWL Meltaguns, Fortitude Fast Attack: Storm Raven, As above Heavy Support: Psy-Rifleman Dread x2* *If points allow. ===== On another note, since i AM running 2 storm-ravens, I see no reason why I shouldn't kit my Dreads out for mid-range killy and get my AV that way. Too bad points are way too tight, otherwise I'd run 2 crushy dreads and 1 shooty dread out of Heavy Support. Granted in a no-limits game, I'd run 3 LRs in heavy support and use Storm Ravens as transport primarily. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbojetset Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Can't wait for the new stuff! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Only one terminator or paladin gets the 2++ save in CC. Everyone else either has a 4 up invulnerable or 5 if they take something other than the standard force weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 IMO the apothecary upgrade for the paladins is unnecessary. You will have enough 2W models with different equipment for wound allocation against small arms fire and non power weapon attacks. FNP will not work against plasma, meltas, lascannons, railguns, powerfists, rending, and power weapons etc. Those are the things paladins will be getting hit by hardest. No one is going to be able to drop our paladins without AP1/2 and powerweapon/rending/powerfist weaponry. Unlike BA, we must pay 130+ points to get FNP in your unit, and it isn't a bubble either, and no furious charge. This just isn't a sound investement IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 The Apothecary essentially makes the squad immune to small arms fire. And if that's all your opponent is throwing at your Paladins, you should do well without the Apothecary. If you know you are going to face a horde army and still plan on taking Paladins, it is a good investment. Otherwise, probably not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyft Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 yeah, I can see that, the other issue is that if you combat squad, only one group is getting the apothecary, the other is kinda stuck hanging. To be fair, Terminators. They're kinda tough. Two Wound Termies even more so. Hmm... Yeah, thinking about it, I really would like to set this up as more of an in your face "I punch you in the kidney" kind of list. I mean I'd take Dreadnoughts with the storm-ravens as well as paladins. Offhand, what's a good configuration for a mid-range crusha-anti-everything dreadnought? Multimelta and DCCW? Can we still take attached Incinerators/Stormbolters? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Offhand, what's a good configuration for a mid-range crusha-anti-everything dreadnought? Multimelta and DCCW? Can we still take attached Incinerators/Stormbolters? Sure can. My personal preference would probably be to stick with the basic MM and Nemesis Doomfist. I mean... can you honestly pass up the chance to play with something called a Doomfist? <_< You might consider replacing the Storm Bolter with a Heavy Flamer, and maybe upgrade that with Psyflame Ammo (essentially, make it an incinerator). You might also swap the MM for an Assault Cannon, possibly upping that with Psybolt Ammo (in which case, leave the Storm Bolter for S5 goodness). Both are good options, but my personal theory is that 1) we're expensive enough per-model already, so upgrades should be kept to a minimum, and 2) you can always use more anti-tank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyft Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 Yeah, the only upgrade I'd want to take on the dreadnoughts would be Reinforced Aegis, Unless that's Venerable Only. But It'd be kinda like. Okay: Half the army is either on the ground (the regular terminators) moving up the board to anchor my own side/objectives or put pressure on the enemy. My big hammer is in the storm-ravens, with the dreadnoughts and paladins. Once the Dreadnoughts drop, I'll have local anti-armor on top of psycannons. The Storm-Ravens can then rush around to assist the regular terminators, while the Paladins and HQ choices roll up whatever they're charged into. Vindicare if I can get him will just be hitting targets of opportunity, or diverting fire for 1 or 2 turns. Either way I win. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Reinforced Aegis comes standard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyft Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 Seriously? the -4 to LD against Psychic Tests is standard? My Mind. It boggles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Seriously? the -4 to LD against Psychic Tests is standard? My Mind. It boggles. Yeah, but given that many people would be using rifleman builds, the "bubble" would be of rather limited-ish use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyft Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Yeah, I'd be using mine as close support for paladins, so they'd be inside the bubble, and for multi-assaults, if i ever get the hang of them. Is there anything else close-support dreadnoughts can do when backed by Terminators? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 My only problem with close combat Dreads is that without a reliable way of getting them there (e.g. Drop Pods, which the GKs somehow do not have) they tend to die. The plus point is that they act as bullet magnets, the problem is that theres always that reasonably high chance that the Dread will die before the opponent targets your Paladins with Psychic powers, given that most killy Psychic powers are fairly close ranged (i.e. he would have had some time to shoot you). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyft Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 well, remember, I'm having STORM RAVENS carry them into battle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 well, remember, I'm having STORM RAVENS carry them into battle. If you were facing me I would have some form of ranged AT, which will often equate to your GKs footslogging it with a long ways to go. Two AV12 transports is the opposite of target saturation. You are better off not transport the dreads and using the SRs for only GK transport and firesupport. This offers 4 AV12 targets greatly reducing the likelyhood of your army having to run across the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/#findComment-2695803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.