Joasht Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 well, remember, I'm having STORM RAVENS carry them into battle. If you were facing me I would have some form of ranged AT, which will often equate to your GKs footslogging it with a long ways to go. Two AV12 transports is the opposite of target saturation. You are better off not transport the dreads and using the SRs for only GK transport and firesupport. This offers 4 AV12 targets greatly reducing the likelyhood of your army having to run across the board. This. I mean, granted its not always as easy as it seems to pop an AV 12 since most people talk about it as if it WILL happen, but then again, two AV 12 targets carrying THAT many points simply means everything will be shooting at them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/page/2/#findComment-2695807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Can GK StormRavens Deep Strike (like BA ones)? Because that might be an option for Dreadnought delivery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/page/2/#findComment-2695824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyking Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 well, remember, I'm having STORM RAVENS carry them into battle. If you were facing me I would have some form of ranged AT, which will often equate to your GKs footslogging it with a long ways to go. Two AV12 transports is the opposite of target saturation. You are better off not transport the dreads and using the SRs for only GK transport and firesupport. This offers 4 AV12 targets greatly reducing the likelyhood of your army having to run across the board. This. I mean, granted its not always as easy as it seems to pop an AV 12 since most people talk about it as if it WILL happen, but then again, two AV 12 targets carrying THAT many points simply means everything will be shooting at them. True, but if the Stormraven player gets the first turn, a single flatout move will clear more than half the board, as well as double its statistical chances of survivability, as well as getting a single shot off with PotMS. Add a Librarian with shrouding and it goes up more. Shoot it down at that point and your still looking at having moved your GKT and Dread 24" up the board on turn 1. Worst case scenario is the Stormraven player goes 2nd and fails to deny a flank/hide properly and takes the entire enemy armies fire and then crashes in burns without moving. Some of that risk is avoidable, some isn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/page/2/#findComment-2695825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyft Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 are GK storm ravens Fast Skimmers still, or do Blood Angels get the Fast version only? If so then yes, 24" flat out move is ideal imo, if I'm reading the rules right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/page/2/#findComment-2695855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 are GK storm ravens Fast Skimmers still, or do Blood Angels get the Fast version only? If so then yes, 24" flat out move is ideal imo, if I'm reading the rules right. Yep, Fast Skimmer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/page/2/#findComment-2695859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Can GK StormRavens Deep Strike (like BA ones)? Because that might be an option for Dreadnought delivery. Yes they can. Though I would advise DSing a Storm Raven. It has too large of a footprint and a DS mishap could well cost you 700+pts depending on its cargo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/page/2/#findComment-2695907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 well, remember, I'm having STORM RAVENS carry them into battle. If you were facing me I would have some form of ranged AT, which will often equate to your GKs footslogging it with a long ways to go. Two AV12 transports is the opposite of target saturation. You are better off not transport the dreads and using the SRs for only GK transport and firesupport. This offers 4 AV12 targets greatly reducing the likelyhood of your army having to run across the board. This. I mean, granted its not always as easy as it seems to pop an AV 12 since most people talk about it as if it WILL happen, but then again, two AV 12 targets carrying THAT many points simply means everything will be shooting at them. At 1500+pts any decent army should be able to threaten AV12 first turn. Eldar, Tau, IG, SMs, CSM, SoB, DE, hell even Orks, Tyranids, Daemons, and Necron all have many options for dropping AV12 first turn. Though it is far from guaranteed, It isn't that difficult. AV13/14, now that is another story entirely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/page/2/#findComment-2695910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyft Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 admittedly, I'm tired of running 3LRs and being constrained to 6-12" of move per turn. I want to be MOBILE. and I'm not THAT concerned with winning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/page/2/#findComment-2695913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 At 1500+pts any decent army should be able to threaten AV12 first turn. Eldar, Tau, IG, SMs, CSM, SoB, DE, hell even Orks, Tyranids, Daemons, and Necron all have many options for dropping AV12 first turn. Though it is far from guaranteed, It isn't that difficult. AV13/14, now that is another story entirely. Most definitely. I was just pointing out that there are some cases where you get lucky enough to not lose them spectacularly on turn 1 :blush: AV 14 is a little tougher for some races, but overall its still not that difficult. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/page/2/#findComment-2695914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagman Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 well, remember, I'm having STORM RAVENS carry them into battle. If you were facing me I would have some form of ranged AT, which will often equate to your GKs footslogging it with a long ways to go. Two AV12 transports is the opposite of target saturation. You are better off not transport the dreads and using the SRs for only GK transport and firesupport. This offers 4 AV12 targets greatly reducing the likelyhood of your army having to run across the board. This. I mean, granted its not always as easy as it seems to pop an AV 12 since most people talk about it as if it WILL happen, but then again, two AV 12 targets carrying THAT many points simply means everything will be shooting at them. True, but if the Stormraven player gets the first turn, a single flatout move will clear more than half the board, as well as double its statistical chances of survivability, as well as getting a single shot off with PotMS. Add a Librarian with shrouding and it goes up more. Shoot it down at that point and your still looking at having moved your GKT and Dread 24" up the board on turn 1. Worst case scenario is the Stormraven player goes 2nd and fails to deny a flank/hide properly and takes the entire enemy armies fire and then crashes in burns without moving. Some of that risk is avoidable, some isn't. There in lies the inherent problem. A 50/50(actually less do to special rules against you) of not having the first turn can drastically decrease your chances of being effective. I saw this just the other day, 1500pts of BA(Dante with Sang guard in SRs with furiosos) against my buddies SMs. My buddy blew up both SRs and ended up wiping the BAs to a man in Turn 5 with minimal casualties. The shrouding, since it is cast in your opponents shooting phase, is an absolute must for this option to be anywhere near viable. Since an SR really can't get cover on it own, the 5+(arguably only a 6+) is tough to bank on. If you go first, a FlatOut 3+ is pretty good, but relying on going first is always a bad strategy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/page/2/#findComment-2695915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewl Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 <<Snip>>You could theoretically squeeze that into 1750, but realistically you're probably looking at more than that. And when it comes right down to it, I'm not sure how well 5 small squads of termies (or 1 small and 2 large) will last against other 1750+pt armies. As a Deathwing player working with a 1750 list atm, I'll tell you they can be surpisingly hard to remove for your opponent. Especially when those 25 termies also score and claim objectives. ;) About the ravens, really only do it if you love the models and the idea of the list and not for a tournament. As a pretty serious tournament player I can tell you I haven't taken a list which does not reliable kill 2 AV12 vehicles to a tournament yet. With IG and SW missile spam you'd be locked in you wrecked ravens T1, same for most SM builds apart from vulka who has a shorter range. So if it is fun fluff and playing with friends, feel free. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/page/2/#findComment-2696364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyft Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Yeah, in a tournament metagame, the list isn't that competitive. I mean, If I were a phenomenal player I might be able to do something with it, but just by sheer volume of str 7-8 fire... Yeah. Amusingly I do have 3 land raider tanks. So A hypothetical Apocalypse kinda take on the idea would be 3 storm ravens, 2 LRs/1LRC, enough terminators to load up all of them, CHAAARGE! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225206-terminator-troops-paladin-elite/page/2/#findComment-2696546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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