Arming the Death Comapny

[Tabgoi]

The I2 powerfists are excellent for finishing off tough enemies and termies.

 

Sorry, I think just about everyone missed this part of an earlier post. Powerfists are ALWAYS Initiative 1. Page 42 in the AoBR rule book, not sure on the big one. There is no way to increase their iniative. I hope this is a mistype on your part, otherwise someone has lead you astray.

[Morollan]

The I2 powerfists are excellent for finishing off tough enemies and termies.

 

Sorry, I think just about everyone missed this part of an earlier post. Powerfists are ALWAYS Initiative 1. Page 42 in the AoBR rule book, not sure on the big one. There is no way to increase their iniative. I hope this is a mistype on your part, otherwise someone has lead you astray.

 

I suspect there's been some confusion over the +1 Init from Furious Charge.

[JBW]

Ha, I cought that too and was wondering why no one mentioned it until now.

 

I'm new to BA realm, but can you take CC weapons and choose not to use all their attacks on the charge? I'm not in front of a RB right this minute.

[JamesI]

Ha, I cought that too and was wondering why no one mentioned it until now.

 

I'm new to BA realm, but can you take CC weapons and choose not to use all their attacks on the charge? I'm not in front of a RB right this minute.

No. You have to use your CCWs (no longer legal to turn off fists to fight at initative unless you have a fist and a power weapon or something similar) and you have to make all your attacks in combat.

[SevenExxes]

I'm making a unit of 11 death company and a reclusiarch to fit in my Stormraven.

The DC will all have power weapons :P

Oh, and one with a thunderhammer.

[Morollan]

I'm making a unit of 11 death company and a reclusiarch to fit in my Stormraven.

The DC will all have power weapons :lol:

Oh, and one with a thunderhammer.

 

Chrikey! That's a hell of a points sink mate. You'll butcher almost anything that has a lower I than you but if you go up against something fast then that's a lot of points to lose. Plus you'll usually slaughter an entire enemy unit in assault, leaving you out in the open to be shot up.

[Frater Uriah]

I kitted my squad of 10 out with 3x power weapons, a thunder hammer, power fist, an infernus pistol, hand flamer, and the remaining three with bolt pistols and chainswords, mixed throughout the lineup. Figured the big opponents could get dropped by the p-fist and t-hammer, 3x power weapons means no armour saves, and I've got an ablative layer of no extra points guys for making attacks at Furious Charge initiative and soaking up casualties while I wait to pound someone with the fist and hammer.

 

Stick 'em in a Land Raider and watch 'em go about their messy business.

[PD78]

I take a THammer for every 5 models, and that's it. I don't really see a point in sticking the points into a unit that's completely uncontrollable. Back when chaplains could still lead them? It'd be worth the cost, but now - not so much. The THammers are mainly there in case a vehicle ends up being the closest target.

[Joasht]

I'm slightly curious, I was browsing through the squad make-ups in this thread, but why do so many take a sprinkling of power weapons in large squads? Because large squads generate so many wounds, all your opponent will do is stack those armor-ignoring attacks together on a dude. For small squads its fine since you won't generate too many non-power weapon wounds, but.....maybe I'm missing something here.

 

I'm a big fan of going all-or-nothing with initiative-speed power weapons (aka claws/power weapons/etc) or none at all.

[PD78]

I'm pretty sure that wounds have to be allocated evenly, so stacking all of the power weapon hits on one model wouldn't be kosher.

 

Say you're assaulting a squad of 12 fire warriors, and get 4 PW hits and 13 non-PW hits. The 13 non-pw hits would be assigned 2 to one model and 1 to the rest of the models, and then the 4PW hits would be assigned to 4 of the models that already had one hit on them.

 

Edit to add: The I1 PFist and THammer hits would land after the other wounds were already allocated, so those are pretty much non-issues. You can't stack more than one wound on any model at a time anymore, you have to allocate them model by model that's in melee range.

[Morollan]

I'm pretty sure that wounds have to be allocated evenly, so stacking all of the power weapon hits on one model wouldn't be kosher.

 

Say you're assaulting a squad of 12 fire warriors, and get 4 PW hits and 13 non-PW hits. The 13 non-pw hits would be assigned 2 to one model and 1 to the rest of the models, and then the 4PW hits would be assigned to 4 of the models that already had one hit on them.

 

That's not how it works and any sensible player will indeed stack as many power weapon wounds onto the same model as possible. In the example above, you would have a total of 17 hits on 12 models so you would have the 4 PW wounds on 2 models, 2 normal wounds each on 3 other models and 1 normal wound each on the rest.

[Joasht]

I'm pretty sure that wounds have to be allocated evenly, so stacking all of the power weapon hits on one model wouldn't be kosher.

 

Say you're assaulting a squad of 12 fire warriors, and get 4 PW hits and 13 non-PW hits. The 13 non-pw hits would be assigned 2 to one model and 1 to the rest of the models, and then the 4PW hits would be assigned to 4 of the models that already had one hit on them.

 

Edit to add: The I1 PFist and THammer hits would land after the other wounds were already allocated, so those are pretty much non-issues. You can't stack more than one wound on any model at a time anymore, you have to allocate them model by model that's in melee range.

 

First of all I was talking about initiative-speed power weapons; I have no issues with hammers or fists.

 

Secondly, in your example, one PW will go to the first FW, then 11 normals on your others FWs, then the 2nd PW on ur 1st FW again. Of course its harder to see it based on your example, but lets say, you faced a MEQ-type squad of Marines. Say, six Marines.

 

If you did 13 non-PW and 4 PW, 1st PW goes on 1st guy, 5 non-PW on the others. Then, 2nd PW on 1st guy, 5 more non-PW on others. Then, 3rd PW on 1st guy, 3 non-PW on the other guys, then the last PW unfortunately goes onto a second guy. Net effect is your four PW attacks killed two guys....

[PD78]

I'm pretty sure that wounds have to be allocated evenly, so stacking all of the power weapon hits on one model wouldn't be kosher.

 

Say you're assaulting a squad of 12 fire warriors, and get 4 PW hits and 13 non-PW hits. The 13 non-pw hits would be assigned 2 to one model and 1 to the rest of the models, and then the 4PW hits would be assigned to 4 of the models that already had one hit on them.

 

That's not how it works and any sensible player will indeed stack as many power weapon wounds onto the same model as possible. In the example above, you would have a total of 17 hits on 12 models so you would have the 4 PW wounds on 2 models, 2 normal wounds each on 3 other models and 1 normal wound each on the rest.

 

Actually that's exactly how it works. Look at page 39 in the base rule book, it refers you back to page 25 where I quote:

 

... Once all models in the target unit have one wound allocated to them, the process is repeated and the player must allocate a second wound to all models in the target unit before he can allocate a third wound to a model, and so on...

 

So the most he could stack would be the 4PW wounds over 2 models in the unit in that example.

 

Edit to add: So in essence, 4 PW wounds = 2 kills in both of the examples. That's still not too shabby.

[Morollan]

I'm pretty sure that wounds have to be allocated evenly, so stacking all of the power weapon hits on one model wouldn't be kosher.

 

Say you're assaulting a squad of 12 fire warriors, and get 4 PW hits and 13 non-PW hits. The 13 non-pw hits would be assigned 2 to one model and 1 to the rest of the models, and then the 4PW hits would be assigned to 4 of the models that already had one hit on them.

 

That's not how it works and any sensible player will indeed stack as many power weapon wounds onto the same model as possible. In the example above, you would have a total of 17 hits on 12 models so you would have the 4 PW wounds on 2 models, 2 normal wounds each on 3 other models and 1 normal wound each on the rest.

 

Actually that's exactly how it works. Look at page 39 in the base rule book, it refers you back to page 25 where I quote:

 

... Once all models in the target unit have one wound allocated to them, the process is repeated and the player must allocate a second wound to all models in the target unit before he can allocate a third wound to a model, and so on...

 

So the most he could stack would be the 4PW wounds over 2 models in the unit in that example.

 

Erm...which is exactly what I said.

[PD78]

Yeah, I mis-read your post. I thought you were saying he'd allocate all 4 PW hits to a single model. Sorry about that - I blame it being 3am and having been on-call for the last 20 hours after a 10 hour shift. My bad.

[Joasht]

Edit to add: So in essence, 4 PW wounds = 2 kills in both of the examples. That's still not too shabby.

 

4 non-PW wounds would kill two Fire Warriors anyway. Difference is you actually had to pay the points for the Power Weapons.

EDIT:

Yeah, I mis-read your post. I thought you were saying he'd allocate all 4 PW hits to a single model. Sorry about that - I blame it being 3am and having been on-call for the last 20 hours after a 10 hour shift. My bad.

 

Haha no worries. We all have those days

[PD78]

I work as an air ambulance paramedic, it's been HELL the last week or two. Season change, but we're still getting flurries of snow, and all of the tourists that come into town for spring hiking/etc don't have the faintest idea how to drive in horizontal snowstorms.

 

And 4 non-PW wounds aren't guaranteed to kill 2 fire warriors - they've got a 4+ save. But now I'm just being argumentative for the sake of argument, soooo, shutting up now.

 

I still don't see the point in loading the DC down with a ton of expensive weapons - throw a couple of tankbusters in there just in case a vehicle happens to be the nearest target, and let them rend their way to ghetto power weapons.

[Morollan]

I still don't see the point in loading the DC down with a ton of expensive weapons - throw a couple of tankbusters in there just in case a vehicle happens to be the nearest target, and let them rend their way to ghetto power weapons.

 

Agree with most of this but sadly we don't have rending anymore.

 

GET SOME SLEEP!! :lol:

[Joasht]

I work as an air ambulance paramedic, it's been HELL the last week or two. Season change, but we're still getting flurries of snow, and all of the tourists that come into town for spring hiking/etc don't have the faintest idea how to drive in horizontal snowstorms.

 

And 4 non-PW wounds aren't guaranteed to kill 2 fire warriors - they've got a 4+ save. But now I'm just being argumentative for the sake of argument, soooo, shutting up now.

 

I still don't see the point in loading the DC down with a ton of expensive weapons - throw a couple of tankbusters in there just in case a vehicle happens to be the nearest target, and let them rend their way to ghetto power weapons.

Haha no worries.

Its true, I also see no point in loading them up. Thats why I travel "light"; 10 DC means 2 Fists, thats it. 8 normal DC still pump out a considerable amount of damage against most infantry.

[PD78]

The hell? When did we lose rending? (Just re-checked my codex)

 

They keep nerfbatting the death company, no idea why.

 

Also, can't sleep until my shift is over - my work cellphone isn't loud enough to wake me. I've only been up for around 30 hours, so it's not that bad yet.

[JamesI]

I'm pretty sure that wounds have to be allocated evenly, so stacking all of the power weapon hits on one model wouldn't be kosher.

 

Say you're assaulting a squad of 12 fire warriors, and get 4 PW hits and 13 non-PW hits. The 13 non-pw hits would be assigned 2 to one model and 1 to the rest of the models, and then the 4PW hits would be assigned to 4 of the models that already had one hit on them.

 

That's not how it works and any sensible player will indeed stack as many power weapon wounds onto the same model as possible. In the example above, you would have a total of 17 hits on 12 models so you would have the 4 PW wounds on 2 models, 2 normal wounds each on 3 other models and 1 normal wound each on the rest.

umm, that's not how it works.

 

Remember, taking the example of Fire Warriors, everyone is identical. You allocate wounds to models, but roll as identical groups, so in the example of 12 fire warriors, everyone is the same so all save rolls are done as one group. 4 PW wounds is 4 dead.

 

Now in a more complicated squad, such as Ork Nobs or even a kitted out Vanguard or something the PW wounds can be clumped.

[Morollan]

D'OH! Re-reading the rules make me believe you are indeed correct, although I'm at a loss to understand why it works that way. Can't quite see why having 12 models with different wargear (but same stats) results in fewer casualties than 12 identical models will take. Oh well, wound allocation was always one of the stranger aspects of 5th edition (eg the 'firing more guns = fewer casualties situation).

[JamesI]

D'OH! Re-reading the rules make me believe you are indeed correct, although I'm at a loss to understand why it works that way. Can't quite see why having 12 models with different wargear (but same stats) results in fewer casualties than 12 identical models will take. Oh well, wound allocation was always one of the stranger aspects of 5th edition (eg the 'firing more guns = fewer casualties situation).

Oh, no arguments there. It should never be beneficial to not fire every gun (baring deciding to avoid risk of overheating guns) and wound allocation games are silly, but it is the current rules (and really one of the few areas of the main rulebook I dislike)

[Brother Evar]

Hmm, well this is an interesting thread. Just been out of the loop for a while (re:WM, WHF, busy).

 

I only mentioned the bolters as they have the age old problem of causing too many wounds, thus making an enemy unit out of charge range due to casualty removal. The removal of 1-2 casualty(s) can be all it takes at times for a failed charge. Granted its a skill veteran gamers can counter via having exp eyeballing ranges, math hammer on the spot ect. I have myself been caught out in the open due to failed charges due to RAS BP and/or specials shooting being too efficent for example. Its at times better to not shoot to ensure a gaurenteed charge. IMO I would prefer to wether the DC bolter fire, ensure there is no charge due to casualty removal and shoot them to peices then assault survivors in my turn. DC will do more damage in the assault phase than the shooting phase. +2 attacks (+1 for x2 CCW, +1 charge) VS +1 on charge, also high chance of a failed charge just to get a move + shoot bolter just dose not cut it IMHO. Extra swings charging with any CCW's can do more or less and if less at least you are locked in combat and will not be shot to peices and smashed/mobbed with a more numerous, even lower tier of assault unit.

[SevenExxes]

I'm making a unit of 11 death company and a reclusiarch to fit in my Stormraven.

The DC will all have power weapons ;)

Oh, and one with a thunderhammer.

 

Chrikey! That's a hell of a points sink mate. You'll butcher almost anything that has a lower I than you but if you go up against something fast then that's a lot of points to lose. Plus you'll usually slaughter an entire enemy unit in assault, leaving you out in the open to be shot up.

 

They can assault right from the Stormrave so no unit can get away. And if they kill the entire unit and left in the open then they can get back in the 'raven.

Works in theory!!