Commissar Joe Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 The Berserkers (Gloves? For really reals?) could use an update to current beautiful standards. Mostly, though, I'd love a power armoured lord/sorcerer kit. I'd buy about 4, and use it on squad leaders, too. The Forge World kits for World Eaters are sweet, now if they could just make them cheaper... http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-4000...ERSION-SET.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subtlebrush Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hmm what would I want.... A nice new plastic dread with tons of options would be my top choice for a re-do. As far as troops, I have to agree with A-D-B and say some more straight standing legs and many many more extra bits like little symbols, older marks of armour/mutated armour and older marks of bolters and special weapons too. Also some new Berzerkers would be just perfect, their so outdated, they have enormous blocky leather hands c'mon now.... Plastic PA Lord/Sorceror set. Plastic Raptors. Plastic obliterators Plastic Dreadclaws:rules permitting :huh: Of course a complete re-do of EVERY character and I mean EVERYONE from Abaddon to Huron (he looks so horrible) I think that's all I could think of. So of course it would be a complete overhaul like Dark Eldar haha which I know wont happen but hey I can dream..... Mr.Malevolent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sandbot Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 oh I love wishlisting! I want a PA Lord/Sorcerer set, plastic dreads, plastic raptors, plastic oblits, new cult unit models, plastic chaos cultists, plastic dreadclaws, older marks of chaotic looking armor, new models for every other character since I'm getting sick of looking at Ahriman's eternally popped collar and a pony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 You clearly haven't seen the new GK Codex yet, have you? I did and have you seen the dex for nids ? who will give you the guarantee that the chaos dex will not look like the nid one ? I rather stay with the bad 4th ed one then get something that is both boring[they wont let us make legion lists as the base will be the dex we have now] and weak [how many havovks can you buy for 150pts ?] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Firstly plastic cult troops, we know GW can get fantastic detail in plastics now so this should be easy enough to do consider the jaw dropping sexiness of the Dark Eldar range and Grey Knights. Second plastic Dreadnought, we have has this dude since second ed and now the loyalists have god knows how many plastic kits out there. I would keep raptors metal but with a new sculpt seriously hate the current models Plastic Obliterators is a hell yeah But what I want more than anything is new fluff, Chaos are the baddest motherf*****s in the galaxy and it's time again that it's represented in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cate Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 If your suggestion to make the cults join the FW assembly lines, all the flavour that makes chaos chaos will disappear. Forge World already makes really high quality Death Guard and World Eaters marines and terminators. Normal GW sculpts are not going to be better than FW ones, so for GW to update cult marines in normal plastic would simply be redundant. I'm only talking about the models, not the rules. Yes I know we are talking about the model, Yes FW does beautiful models that you have to order from FW. Wonder why they have made the Khorne and Plague marines stuff, could it have to do with the Siege of Vraks IA series, or maybe it could have something to do with that zerkers and PM's are the two most popular cults? A little of both I would think. Why are all the loyalist stuff more popular than every other foe to the Imperium? I couldn't have to do with the supply of marines that are filling up the stores? It is easy to go into the store and get a box of marines. To start a chaos army you really have to work for it and if you want to start a 1k son or a NM army you have to order the stuff from GW's own site which some feel like hard, esp if it is kids who needs to convince their parents to do so. By shuffle the cults to FW only stuff would mean we see less cults and a less demand for them and after a while GW can drop the the rules for them altogether from the codex and they become part of some IA book, which just the elitist hobbyist plays and are not viable on some tourneys. I'll give you and example. I lured two of my non 40k playing friends to my club for a fun and relaxed game or two. They found it fun and wanted to start to play, they asked what armies they should play and I told them to decide for themselves, one the guys borrowed my 1K son and Prosperous burn books and after had read them he wanted to start a 1k son army. Everything fine and dandy, he went to our local GW store, and they had one box of 1k sons, the red shirt told him that it was easy to make 1k sons out of the ordinary CSM box. I was with him and I just asked the red shirt if the ordinary csm box now had started to include the 1k specific heads, sorcs and more cult specific shoulderpads. Of course they hadn't. My friend just gave up playing CSM and is now playing bearded baby-blue marines as they where at that time the most supplied thing in the GW store. My club has about 25 people in it 15 of them play loyalist marines of different flavours and 2 play imperial guard, I am the only chaos player, the main reason is that there are not more chaos players is that they find the models and codex uninspiring. If the supply of a specific commodity is to low no one will buy them, the demand will sink and sooner or later the commodity will vanish, which in this case might mean that the cults will vanish altogether, which will make the chaos codex even more watered down. You see the codex and and the models are part of the same thing. FW are almost only supplying stuff which they have mentioned in their own IA books and there will probably be no Chaos stuff in them for a while, which will mean that Tzeentch and Slaanesh will fall even further into obscurity. This is my last post about this because I don't want to derail the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm40k Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 TO be honest, I don't think I'd actually buy any of the new Chaos plastic kits if they released them, having pain-stakingly converted my own versions of Plague Marines, Berzerkers, Chosen, Raptors and Obliterators, but I think all of these need to be re-done in plastic (an update for the Berzerkers, their models are nearly 13 years old now!); and I think a Plastic Chaos Dread is LOOOOOOOONG overdue. Hopefully in line with re-done rules that makes them a unit worth taking... ;) I'd also like to see further upgrades made for the Rhino and Land Raider kits - I really hope in the next Chaos 'dex we get Assault Ramps for Rhinos as an upgrade, and we get new patterns of Land Raiders. If the loyalist Marines' Techmarines are allowed to tinker with the works of the Machine God, and create different patterns of Land Raider, then surely the servant of the dark gods, who care little for the sanctity of 'machine spirit', would come up with all sorts of diabolical variants of this vehicle... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Well nearly the whole of the CSM minis can de redone... Excepte for the already plastic vehicles and CSM squads,possesd and termies. Also new models means new options and accesory's! -New Zerkers, with chains,more skulls,more head variations,Khorne icons,heads of 3-4 differents races as trophy's. -New Plastic Raptors -Plastic Oblits, they can still have those twisted Termie design,but make it less stupid looking -Plastic Plague Marines,with the good options that comes with,like bubonic nades,big flies that you can put on a shoulder or head like a parrot(pirate zombie marines!) -New Chaos Bikes,because really i always hated how Marines bikes looked... -A new Land Raider variant exclusif to Chaos?,...can always dream but would be nice... -Plastic Dread,with nice options, and deamonic features -Plastic Havoks could be nice,but with a mix of Pre-heresy era looking weapons,and more recent ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchen Knife Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I don't think we'll get plastic dreads soon,although I hope I'm wrong about this. But with new plastic dread boxes, FW would sell less of their nice , good looking and sexy chaos dreads (yes I bought two, I'm a sick little fanboy...) :huh: Conversion boxes like the DA or BT would be terrific! Oh and new oblit models too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 You clearly haven't seen the new GK Codex yet, have you? I did and have you seen the dex for nids ? who will give you the guarantee that the chaos dex will not look like the nid one ? I rather stay with the bad 4th ed one then get something that is both boring[they wont let us make legion lists as the base will be the dex we have now] and weak [how many havovks can you buy for 150pts ?] You're quoting the wrong guy. I'm alluding that the concept of Oblits being "too powerful" pales in comparison to what's in the GK Codex, where space monkeys get to do the same thing for about 40 points. Chaos Codex needs an amp of everything else, not a downgrade of the one useful unit they left us (and even they could be well served to get T5 back). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Yes I know we are talking about the model, Yes FW does beautiful models that you have to order from FW. Wonder why they have made the Khorne and Plague marines stuff, could it have to do with the Siege of Vraks IA series, or maybe it could have something to do with that zerkers and PM's are the two most popular cults? A little of both I would think. Why are all the loyalist stuff more popular than every other foe to the Imperium? I couldn't have to do with the supply of marines that are filling up the stores? It is easy to go into the store and get a box of marines. To start a chaos army you really have to work for it and if you want to start a 1k son or a NM army you have to order the stuff from GW's own site which some feel like hard, esp if it is kids who needs to convince their parents to do so. By shuffle the cults to FW only stuff would mean we see less cults and a less demand for them and after a while GW can drop the the rules for them altogether from the codex and they become part of some IA book, which just the elitist hobbyist plays and are not viable on some tourneys. I think your theory that the popularity of an army has to do with exactly what kits can be picked up in a store at any given time is shaky at best. It would be just as easy to argue that having more forge world options would make Chaos MORE popular due to higher quality models. Awhile back there was a thread that took a poll of where people get their models, and the vast majority don't buy in store anyway. It sounds to me like a better case to make would be that GW stores should start carrying Forge World if they were making all the Cult troop upgrade kits. The Cult troops would not lose popularity due to having to order the models. The popularity of units in a codex is NOT decided by ease of access to the models, but by their rules (just look at thunderwolf cavalry. It's extremely hard to get a proper wysiwyg squad of these together, but they are still in almost every SW army.) The only way Cult marines are going to die off and get dropped from the codex is if GW makes them an undesirable unit choice. Also, your friend caught a lucky break in not starting thousand sons. Thousand Sons are a terrible army right now, and it would most likely have ruined his enjoyment of the hobby. The reason you see so many loyalist marines isn't because of a lack of availability of chaos models, it is because the chaos codex is terribad. GW is carrying less of the Chaos models because sales plummeted. Sales didn't plummet because they started carrying less models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cate Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I think your theory that the popularity of an army has to do with exactly what kits can be picked up in a store at any given time is shaky at best. It would be just as easy to argue that having more forge world options would make Chaos MORE popular due to higher quality models. Awhile back there was a thread that took a poll of where people get their models, and the vast majority don't buy in store anyway. It sounds to me like a better case to make would be that GW stores should start carrying Forge World if they were making all the Cult troop upgrade kits. The Cult troops would not lose popularity due to having to order the models. The popularity of units in a codex is NOT decided by ease of access to the models, but by their rules (just look at thunderwolf cavalry. It's extremely hard to get a proper wysiwyg squad of these together, but they are still in almost every SW army.) The only way Cult marines are going to die off and get dropped from the codex is if GW makes them an undesirable unit choice. Also, your friend caught a lucky break in not starting thousand sons. Thousand Sons are a terrible army right now, and it would most likely have ruined his enjoyment of the hobby. The reason you see so many loyalist marines isn't because of a lack of availability of chaos models, it is because the chaos codex is terribad. GW is carrying less of the Chaos models because sales plummeted. Sales didn't plummet because they started carrying less models. Sure the 1k sons aint the best army on the board but what does that have anything to do with this? I have ordered stuff from forge world and I am not impressed with what I have gotten, brittle stuff that breaks easily wich is expensive. I have no intention to sit and phone a company abroad whenever something is broken. And you don't seem to grasp that if something is hard to find and get your hands on the sales will plummet. By ordering toys via mail order, which FW is, no I am not going to Nottingham everytime I want something for my army, GW is making it harder for the customers to get the stuff which will over a longer time will kill the chaos list. Look what happened to Epic, Inquisitor and the other specialst games when they vanished from the shelves of the stores. Your idea to make the cults FW only will kill them and make them vanish from the tourney floors. Most of the tourneys I have been to do not accept IA lists as legal armies. If the cults are FW only the cults will vanish from the floors more or less. Not in my club as we accept IA lists, and even sometimes older codex as the 3,5 chaos list, but we are an extreme exception. //C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Look what happened to Epic, Inquisitor and the other specialst games when they vanished from the shelves of the stores. Again, you've got the cause and effect reversed. Those things disappeared from the stores because they lost popularity. They didn't lose popularity because they were randomly yanked from the stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_ Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Dreads and Defilers need a revamp fast. They didn't change for such a long time, they are now old and rusky. Plastic kit would be as eyesome as a revamp of their rules. - Dreadnough - Defiler - Power Armor Lord (Plastic kit) Then comes a second brunch of units - Obliterators are awful, so much ppl work on them. - Raptors aren't as bad as Oblits. They are good looking, however without weightening their base, they keep falling over. Add that they are so high on their base that they get shot easier, with old rubish rules. You'll understand why ppl want a change for them. Lastly, we don't really need those. However, new models would be good. - Sonic Marines (plastic kit) - Havoks (plastic kit) - Cypher (among Fabulous Bill and other SC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cate Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Again, you've got the cause and effect reversed. Those things disappeared from the stores because they lost popularity. They didn't lose popularity because they were randomly yanked from the stores. Ok let me put this another way. During the 3,5 chaos codex, a pure slaanesh list was godly, it was so broken it wasn't even fun to play with it. I know as I have been playing slaanesh since 1999, I think I lost 3 games out of hundred. It was still not popular as GW had more or less said that they should be pink, it was extremly hard to convert the marines to become sonic, when the sonic box came out you got one blaster and one blastmaster in that box, plus some other slaaneshi stuff. Yes you can buy Sonic weaponry on GWs site, but that was something they added around when the last codex came out. Converting bikes, dreads and terminators was a pure pain. Slaanesh popularity fell if you where forced to play WSIWYG and when the new codex came out we lost most of our godly stuff, some of them was broken, like sonic bikers and sonic terminators as we got the blasters as free upgrades for twin linked bolters. Zerkers on the other hand is still popular, few chaos lists don't have zerkers as troops or Plague marines, zerkers are one of the easiest troop choice to get your hands on, the battleforce has 10 zerkers included. This is the stuff the red shirts say that you must have when you try to start a Chaos army, but you claim that FW models are enough for the cults. So if and when we get a new codex where the Slaanesh cult might be stronger than the Khorne one it will rise in popularity even if the only way to get hold of wsiwyg cultist is on the FW site? It dosen't matter if FW makes the models and makes them beautiful as it is hard to get them, and to be honest are many times in a bad state when they arrive, which will mean in the long term that the cults will die and GW might in a chaos codex 6 kill them of entirely, as no one is playing them, and we will be forced to play with some IA list that we might never see or be able to use on the tourneys. Then again if we got upgrade PLASTIC sprues, as BT and DA got, for the cults, we would see an increase of the cults. I am not saying we should get Emperors children or World eaters, just the cult stuff, FW can still make the legion specific stuff. Working with resin on the other hand is a pain. Now you will say no one in their right mind plays pure Slaanesh or Tzeentchs list because they suck, I am still playing a pure Slaanesh and I win about 50% of my games and regularly beat orks, BA and eldars, I don't use obliterators in a friendly game, but can still win. It is not an easy win as the regular Zerker, PM, termicide, 2 princes and obliterator list is, but it is still doable. You are advocating for lesser cults when you want to force the new people who wants to start a Cult army to spend more money, FW stuff is more expensive, and use mail order. We who have been in the hobby since the RT era know how to convert and scrounge up the stuff anyhow, but new people do not know this, older players are not who GW are interested in, the red shirts in my store flee when they see me enter, as I have been playing the game for longer than they lived, but the new players who wants to start an army will not start an army that is problematic to get your hands on. Ergo the cults will die as they are not popular according the accountant gnomes in Nottingham. We also know that we will not get any new stuff till the new codex come out, and with a new codex they hopefully makes the cults stronger and more easy to use and therefor increase the popularity, so the demand for cult specific will increase. Fluffwise, if the cults and legions die because of this the 40k universe will be less dark and apocalyptic. I am going to argument for 4 cult specific sprue boxes which is viable during the first 6-12 months after the new codex is released and after that the ones who are not that popular can be ordered from GW as everything else that is not that popular. As you are not going to see my point or agree with me, this discussion is futile and we should let it die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Look what happened to Epic, Inquisitor and the other specialst games when they vanished from the shelves of the stores. Again, you've got the cause and effect reversed. Those things disappeared from the stores because they lost popularity. They didn't lose popularity because they were randomly yanked from the stores. Not entirely true some of the specialist games were very popular... too popular... blood bowl being the prime example... where you got a group of people who were really involved in blood bowel other sales a the GW stores went down and as you need a handful of models to play blood bowl that is a bad thing... for GW... Chaos was once popular (not as much as loyalist marines but not bad...) and they wrecked that and yes they remove models from the stores that were less popular... but they will never be popular if you don't give them support... If Chaos had ther support and the right set of rules they would be more popular... Guard were pretty unpopular except with people who had connections with the armed forces (on the whole) good rules and most of the models (although they really need to do a hydra) means that they have become more popular. Both of you are right... they were removed from shelves because they were not selling well... but removing them only makes them less likely to sell... My local GW has half of its 40k display as space marines... the started table has space marines on it... they don't play the starter battles with the correct rules and have normally have an unbiased scenario with the points in favour of the marines... is it a surprise then that new players go on more often than not to play space marines? or that space marines shift the most models? If you see a tactical squad vs 10 orks boyz and don't have the points system explained to you... from a game play point of view if nothing else... what are you going to think is the better army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Lord Shamrockius Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 plastic chaos dread (but keep it looking as cool as the metal one!) I've never felt so betrayed by one of my dark bretheren... "as cool as the metal one"?! It's a walking toaster. An ugly toaster with a bad attitude and possibly might be slightly... simple. :( :devil: The whole model doesn't say "i'm crazy, old and cranky". We probably need a metalic box that looks like my Uncle Dave. Or just something that has more detail and more options than the awful thing we have. And I do agree that everything that was from 2nd Ed needs an update, although Khârn and Ahriman don't seem to have aged too badly, they could still do with a facelift. 16-17 years on a 10,000 year old crazy seems to have not been kind to them... ask Courtney Cox! ;) Love a lot of the other ideas. Also, I think Cult upgrade kits for the Terminators and new daemon engines (as well as rules for them) would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 well...i like the metal one...first chaos model i ever bought...it needs to be done in plastic though...:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROTHER UNGOLIANT Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Ithink an up dated imperial apothacary and ragnar blackmain would look excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fimbul Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Plastic Havocs would really make my day.. I am absolutely terrible when it comes to working with metal, and the mixed sets are really giving me a hard time. Other than that; plastic obliterators, new Abaddon model and plastic Dreadnought would be great. I just hope the Dread rules are updated with the new codex so that they´re actually worth fielding. A final thing I´d really like is plastic Lightning Claws for the Terminators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaosRaptor Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Ooh, another thing I've just thought of, a base plastic kit for Chosen. Gives a lot of highly detailed and ornate bitz to use, as befits such loyal servants to Chaos (perhaps older marks of armour?), and includes a variety of special weapons (lightning claws, power weapons, meltas, etc) and maybe Icons? Using a kit like this in conjunction with other boxes (such as Possessed, regular CSM, maybe Berzerkers), you could create some really unique Chosen that look the part. Just my 2 cents. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Lord Shamrockius Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 A final thing I´d really like is plastic Lightning Claws for the Terminators. Don't we already have plastic LC's? Or are they only in the Termie Lord's kit that i've been using them from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fimbul Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 A final thing I´d really like is plastic Lightning Claws for the Terminators. Don't we already have plastic LC's? Or are they only in the Termie Lord's kit that i've been using them from? Exactly, only in the termie Lord sprue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of fact Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Yea i bought loads of those lords FOR the claws! We need something that define's us a Chaos Marine's, something we have that Vanilla dont! Say a storm bird....... Also plastic chosen would be downright cool, although by mixing blood angel sanguinary guard and possesed i made some cooloi chosen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fimbul Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Agreed, I like for us to be more than spiky smurfs. A Storm Bird would be great and given the rumor of upcoming fliers I´d not shy away from Hellblade/talons either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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