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New Codex Games Recap/Batreps and Thoughts


revnow

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I played 2 games involving the new codex yesterday, one with in a mirror match, one as Eldar against the new Codex. Talking points breakdown and some of my thoughts follow.

 

Lists (1850)

 

Myself

Draigo

Librarian (2 servo skulls, Rift, Shrouding, Might, Quicksilver)

(5) Paladins (2 psycannons, 2 halberds, 3 swords)

(5) Paladins (2 psycannons, 2 halberds, 3 swords)

(10) Interceptors (2 psycannons, psybolts, 5 halberds, 1 hammer (justicar))

Stormraven

Stormraven

 

Opponent

Draigo

Coteaz

(7) Paladins (Staff, Apothecary)

(12) Deathcult Assassins

Vindicare

Calidus

Landraider Redeemer

Landraider Crusader (Psybolts)

 

He starts on board after I drop the servo skulls to push the Vindicare back. Both Raiders centered on the back end in pitched deployment and the Vindicare in my deployment zone on the right, game is killpoints to keep it simple. I opt to stay off the board in standard reserve.

 

Turn 1

Landraiders stick together and move toward the left end of the board to draw the assault away from the vindicare

 

2. Raiders continue movement. Draigo's Raven comes in but neither of the other squads. Draigo's Raven shakes one Raider after flying to middle far left of board (outisde of Vindicare range).

 

3. Raiders move into range of the Raven and Calidus comes in to go hide by the Vindi. Crusader manages pen on Raven with "psy-bolt" cannon, which makes its cover save. Libby Raven and interceptors come in, Raven pairs with Draigo's ride, interceptors to combay assassins. Ravens shoot up Landraiders, but don't manage more than a weapon destroyed. Vindi goes to ground against interceptor shooting and makes all +2 cover saves. Interceptors fail assault roll into terrain.

 

4. Raiders continue to shoot a Ravens to little effect, Libby gets off shrouding and cover save for both goes to +3. Callidus shoots and assaults interceptors killing four in total. Justicar punks the Callidus. Libby and Draigo + Paladins disembark right in front of Landraiders. Stormravens fail to kill the Crusader again, but paladins make up for with with psycannons, wrecking it, but leaving assassins out of range.

 

5. Draigo 2 Electric Bugaloo disembarks, shoots and assaults Libby squad while assassins+Coteaz are out of range and so jump in the now empty redeemer which kills one Raven. Quicksilver goes off (mistake, ignore) and the Libby (1 wound left)+4 remaining Paladins kill 3 Paladins after a successful psychic check against the Aegis. Draigo kills the Libby and remaining Paladins kill 2 more of mine after some nice +4 force sword saves. I win combat 6 to 5, and he passes Ld 9 check. Raven blows up Redeemer and kills 8 Assasins. Draigo Uno+Paladins enters fray and proceeds to put two wounds on Draigo 2 +kill all but remaining staff Paladins. Draigo 2 finishes off libby squad. Interceptors get locked up with Vindicare to no effect. Roll continues game.

 

6. Coteaz +4 assassins joins fight, which drops me to I1 because of psyk outs. Draigos and Coteaz manage to not do anything to each other, but Assassins kill 2 halberd Paladins on some nice rolling while only losing two of their own. I fail Ld check on a 10 needing 8 and run. Coteaz and Draigo 2 pursue. I continue running not being able to regroup within 6" of Draigo 2, but interceptors finally finish off Vindicare. Game ends on a 5

 

Final Score 4 to 5 Opponent's favor.

 

Thoughts

- Psk out grenades are highly determinative in any combat involving psykers and especially in GK on GK matches.

- Brotherhood+forceweapons are brutal on multi-wound hammer units, and are not to be considered lightly.

- It is much more difficult to consistently wound things with a marine stat line than a traditional GK one. Even with hammerhand being able to generate a consistent large number of wounds can be very tough. Players should expect to produce about half as many wounds from comparable squads on average, though in the case of PAGKs, these are now powerweapons.

- Psybolts are a solid buy in terms of wound generation on squads with more than 7 models. The Vindi's nice +2 cover rolling aside, they produced a consistent 9 wounds from 8 stormbolters against T4 per round of shooting. That's comparable to the expected 5.33 from non psybolt stormbolters. These numbers scale considerably when adding in versus T3 and T6 and against vehicles with AV11 (common on most transports) or worse. They pair particularly well with Psycannons in fullfilling multi-use roles against infantry vehicle and MCs. Had the game gone to 7, the psybolts and teleport shunt would have been my saving grace in turning a loss into a win.

- This army has a ridiculous amount of power that needs to be very very very carefully managed. I would coach buying into any dynamic (like servo skulls) that increases insurance against bad outcomes and reduces uncertainty.

- Warding staves make Paladins especially hard to kill. My opponent's squad having a warding staff was the difference between me being run of f of the table in the end and him.

- 2 psycannons on any 5 model Paladin squad is a worthwhile investment. When the MMs on the Ravens failed, the Psycannons did not.

- Do not underestimate Deathcult assassins. Even just 4 on the charge (with HH from Coteaz) generated 6 PW wounds against the Paladins. I would not have liked to have seen what 12 would have done.

- In the same course, do not underestimate Assassins' ability to die in droves when their ride blows up or they are subject to even mediocre shooting or almost any kind of flame template. They are the Inquisition's glass lightsaber.

- Psystrike missiles are a great way to kill anything psyker that isn't a GK. Brotherhood of psykers provides decent protection, though still not for independent characters. The fact that they are S4 and defensive is amazing. They are a fair trade for bloodstrikes.

 

More later after Edar batrep.

 

5.

Bah! Misread then. I'll edit it when I get the chance.

 

Pretty big misplay IMO. Changes the entirety of that assault and the game. Be careful with stuff like this because it gives off false impressions.

 

Other than that, how do you feel about having the much smaller army? Did you ever feel overwhelmed?

It's a part of learning the new codex and the point of the two of us playing these games is to figure some of that stuff out. I'm glad you pointed it out to me though so I can account for it in the next set of playtests.

 

I don't mind the smaller army because it's actually not much different than what I was playing before, with Land Raiders changed out for Ravens and sans Stormtrooper squads in Rhinos. I actually thought the adjustment was easy enough because the codex allows for a great deal of mobility that removes some of the need to have greater numbers. The playtest wasn't particularly accurate though (as you noted), also because it was two elite armies facing off. The Eldar game was a bit different. I can say this. Paladins are really freaking difficult to kill with non GK tools. This is an army that plays to a tie easily and scales up from there. The big advantage is even with the small model count, it has a real capability to cripple even large model count armies early. The downturn is you can't play chess 40k with it. Any tradeoff made is an advantage for your opponent, so you will always have to execute with precision to maximize damage output in a way that leaves your opponent in a position of weaker response. This seems obvious, but is often counter to the strategy most players follow of attack/counter, where you hope to come out with the better trade from that combination. An elite army like this really needs to seek out crippling the opponent's ability to achieve critical mission objectives from the outset and work from there.

 

Also I disagree a bit with your strength breakdown of Libby powers on the blogpost (which is otherwise a pretty solid strategic breakdown of GK units), specifically Warprift. The ability to autopen vehicles and ignore cover saves is not to be taken lightly, especially on AV13+. When you need to deliver the punch instead of taking it, Warp Rift can be a dependable tool for pulling units out of their boxes. This is especially the case when players smoke their vehicles with the expectation of having their cover save. It is a power that can dramatically disrupt opponents expectation or force them to behave with less surety.

 

Edit: sigh grammar

One thing I forgot. Vets are going to need to adjust to not being fearless really really quickly, because it makes this a whole different army.

 

Eldar game 1850 again

 

Me

Yriel

Farseer (Bike, spear, fortune, doom, RoW)

6 Warlocks (bikes, 2 spears, 3 destructor, 2 embolden, enhance)

5 Fire Dragons (Crack Shot, Serpeant)

5 Fire Dragons (Crack Shot, Serpeant)

9 Dire Avengers (Defend, Bladestorm, Shimmershield, PW, Serpeant)

10 Storm Guardians (2 flamers, Serpeant)

10 Storm Guardians (2 flamers, Serpeant)

(Some stuff may be off, I don't have my lists on hand)

 

Opponent

Same as above

 

5 objectives, one in center, four 12" away in an X pattern

He wins roll and makes me go first.

 

Turn 1

Serpaents advance around and shift to center of the board. Storm Guardians Serpaents screen others which move into range of Vindicare and kill him with Shuriken Cannon fire. Warlocks take position behind to play support role. Raiders move up and smoke.

 

Turn 2

Serpaents for Fire Dragons and Yriel+Dire Avengers move up to Coteaz's Raiders with Bike warlocks and Yriel in midlee and dragons on each side. Leftmost Serpaent is screening the group from the second Raider's assault. First group of dragons blow the Landraider, Yriel and destructor bikes kill assassins and second group of dragons utterly fail to finish Coteaz through his 4++. Second raider pulls up and Callidus pops up near right fire dragon squad. Callidus wastes fire dragons with brain flamer and blades. Raider is out of assault range of anything decent. But Coteaz attacks fire dragons and kills two. They pass check.

 

Turn 3

Bikes go after 2nd Raider (should have probably saved FDs from Coteaz, but whatevs) while Yriel and Avengers hop back in ride and jet off along with the storm guardians. Shuriken cannons kill the callidus and Coteaz kills 2 more dragons. Bikes pop the raider with combined spears and witchblade attacks. Paladins assault bikes and coteaz finishes Dragon exarch. I lose one warlock and one Paladin takes a wound. Tie combat.

 

Turn 4 (this gets boring quick)

Lose another bike and no wounds on Paladins. Serpaents dance around. Coteaz joins combat, takes a wound and I lose two more bikes.

 

Turn 5

Lose last of Warlocks and Farseer while all five Serpaents continue to dance, but move onto all five objectives, holding 3 and contesting two. Bottom of turn sees Paladins take Mighty Ducks formation to contest all three held objectives. Game ends on a 2.

 

Result

Tie game

 

Thoughts

- Killing Paladins is hard with Draigo around to eat instadeath wounds and no high volume S8

- Knocking out Paladin armies' mobility dramatically hampers the ability of the army to do much more than contest for the tie in objective games.

- Runes of Warding makes it really hard for GK players to use psychic powers, which could have helped quite a bit in that game.

- The Vindicare will spend the early part of the game getting killed, getting even one shot off may be lucky. Still not a great investment.

- THe Callidus will kill just about as many models now as she did in the past with the exception of TH/SS termies. Still, she dies quickly as well./ In neither game did either last more than a turn, and it didn't cost a lot of utility to deal with them. Armies that use them will have to pair them effectively with strong support or preferable alternative targets to make them work.

- Draigo is really hard to kill. Best to make it so he walks early, and best to avoid it when you are the GK player.

- Assassins die a lot when their Landraider explodes. This is a problem in 5th Edition's melta heavy environment.

- Librarians are a solid investment.

I'm start to worry a bit about this codex :S

 

While on the face of it there seems to be quite a lot of variability I find my self running out of points very fast and only being able to field a few troops choices. I feel particularly limited by GK HQ's being in Termy armour, and missing storm shields on termies/pallies is quite interesting too.

 

While I'm incredibly new to the hobby, I was at a tournament in the weekend (watching my mates, and taking photos), and it seems that troops are basically what won the matches. To be fair these missions did have some little quirks to them, that tried to make players think a little bit.

 

In the NZ tournament scene army comp is prevalent, I was going to say lots of terrain was too but that mainly applies in the games I play with friends.

 

Hopefully I can gleam some reassurance from your reps

Edar breakdown is above.

 

Grimz I would recommend following some of the advice Hero posted on his blog with some additions. Specifically

 

- Grandmasters are an exceptional HQ choice because they give you options, and round to round options are freaking gold in this game. In objective games interceptor squads can be troops, and in killpoint games they can have scout or hammer of righteousness (name?) as they need it. Same with other non troop units. More importantly the problem other codices have with troops doesn't apply here. Traditionally other books (even SM) have troop units that are meh at actually contributing to the game. But, because you have to field them in moderate to large numbers to compete effectively, games often end up breaking down to who has the less meh troops (often SM). This just does not apply with this book. In fact, the Troops in this book are without question the type of units you would normally see in other SM Codices' Elites sections. Even the lowly strike squad threatens almost every other unit in the game when properly equipped, both in shooting and combat. Well managed, no troops like Interceptors with halberds, psycannons and a Hammer can potentially own everything from a Saguinary Guard squad to a Landraider to TH/SS termies to a Hive Tyrant and retinue. Most units have a threat limit with what they can and cannot hurt, GK do not. Properly equipped they can kill anything and also hold objectives.

 

- Don't worry too much about the lack of Storm Shields. The prevalence of force swords makes 4++ saves on terminators and 3++ on ICs common enough to where it's not a huge disadvantage, and striking at initiative is nice. Just be smart about wargear configuration to maximize wound allocation potential.

I'm start to worry a bit about this codex :S

 

While on the face of it there seems to be quite a lot of variability I find my self running out of points very fast and only being able to field a few troops choices. I feel particularly limited by GK HQ's being in Termy armour, and missing storm shields on termies/pallies is quite interesting too.

 

While I'm incredibly new to the hobby, I was at a tournament in the weekend (watching my mates, and taking photos), and it seems that troops are basically what won the matches. To be fair these missions did have some little quirks to them, that tried to make players think a little bit.

 

In the NZ tournament scene army comp is prevalent, I was going to say lots of terrain was too but that mainly applies in the games I play with friends.

 

Hopefully I can gleam some reassurance from your reps

 

Do not forget Inquisitors are incredible cheap HQ choices without Terminator armour and plenty of abilities or wargear that are supportive of GK roles. You do not have to stick them with henchmen squads, some Inquisitors work alone and call the GK's for support. I'm planning on a Inquisitor with Psychic Communion to hasten the Stormraven and Dreadknights from reserve. For 55 pt I get a 3 wound IC with a 3(4) attack force weapon, LD10, Stubborn, and a great deal of exciting and cheap wargear to pick from. Against sub S6 shooting that's effectively 2 extra wounds for the squad also. Pretty good bargain in my opinion.

 

Seems GK have a similar problem as BA, picking too many upgrades can really make a small force which requires a very precise mindset, and a high vulnerability to... aberrant dice rolling.

 

Are you going to NICON in Hamilton this June? No comp tournament in NZ, should be interesting. I'm hoping to use it as my maiden voyage for new GK.

 

Draigo and Paladins seem to really focus your outcome on them, more so than the usual Land Raider plus Terminator combo. That is, you really live or die based on how they do. I think your opponent needs to increase his long range shooting ability. Psycannons, Psyflemen Dreadnoughts or other high strength fast firing anti tank weaponry is going to be needed in GK just as it is in any army, even a combat one. It's also looking more like the Vindicare might be one of those over hyped units that really fails post codex launch and play, like Vanguard vets in C:SM.

I wanted to but was bad timing, just getting into initial university assessments. NICON happens to fall right on study week so I can afford to take the road trip up. Conditional on me painting my army also. Though I've been going well so far, this may be the first tournament I get a decent painting score since my Tau got stashed on the shelf.

Playing a list with:

 

HQ:

GM

- Halberd

 

Troops:

 

8 GKSS

-psybolts

 

8 GKSS

-psybolts

 

Elite:

 

Techmarine

- Orbital bomb

- Conversion beam

 

8 Purifiers

- 2 Incinerators

 

Fast:

10 Interceptors

- 2 Psycannons

 

10 Interceptors

- 2 Psycannons

 

Heavy:

Land Raider

 

Edit: should be 1750 list

 

Maybe not the strongest list especially weak on AV maybe, but versatile. I can split the Interceptors and have two 5 men suicide squads to get that rear armour hits with the psycannons, while the rest sit back and wait for the objective takes. Or keep them together and have two big support squads for either the purifiers or the slogging GKSS. The footslooggin GK usually spend there time running from cover to cover shooting those S5 bolts all over the place (Even shooting rhinos lol :D), while the LR only mission is to drive up to the most nasty thing I see and flame/shoot then charge in with two good psychic powers as support. Even those pesky wolf riders fall when you have instant death!

I played a game this afternoon using the following 1850 list:

 

HQ:

Coteaz

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor +Rad Grenades +Psychostroke Grenades +Power Armour

 

Elite:

Vindicaire

9x Purifiers (DH, 8x Halberds)

 

Troops:

10x GKSS (Rhino, DH, 2x Psycannons)

10x GKSS (Rhino, DH, 2x Psycannons)

Henchmen (5 Acolytes +3 Melta +Razor +Psybolts)

Henchmen (5 Acolytes +3 Melta +Razor +Psybolts)

10x Acolytes

 

Heavy Support:

Dreadnought (2x TLAC, Psybolts)

Dreadnought (2x TLAC, Psybolts)

Redeemer + Multi Melta

 

 

I was playing a blood angels list, and we were doing a custom spearhead mission.

 

- Overall game was a draw that ended on turn 5

- If the game had of gone on for another turn, my purifiers would have butchered his troops on the center objective

- Riflemen were fantastic, didn't have to use fortitude at all and one was outright killed by a las cannon late game

- Vindicaire was interesting, he immobilised a furioso, tried to shoot a FnP Blood Chalice guy but was out of range, removed a SS on an Assault termy (had nothing else to shoot at), and blew up a Baal Predator after it was immobilised. He also shrugged off two lascannon shots which was pretty scary.

- Henchmen did their job, jumped out and melta'd another Furioso into slag

- GKSS were awesome, warp quake shut down drop pods from getting into my face

- Overall I was pretty happy, I didn't really understand the mission, and I'm pretty newbie, forgot to smoke some rhino's but didn't matter in the end.

IN the new dex' can Assassins get in vehicles?

 

If so, putting the vindicare in a rhino would greatly increase his survivability.

 

Second choice would be if you include a tech marine with conversion beamer and occupy the same ruins witht he Vindicare for a 2+ save all game.

 

For a guy that can reliably take out 6 vehicles a game or remove pesky rune priests and runes of warding Eldar leaders I would make his life a little easier and protect him a bit.

 

Also, since he is infantry a GM can make him troops, correct? Or does the Grand Strategy only apply to GK Force Org choices?

 

Thanks,

 

BDS

Not a Troops choice, but he could claim objectives.

 

He's also slightly more expensive than a Psybolt Rifleman Dread, which could probably hold the obective better.

 

Yes, the dred would...if you took both. I don't have the dex, but I thought D3 units could be given the same special rule by the GM....so on 2/3 of your roles....they both could hold objectives (like troops), correct?

 

The Vindicare seems like a surgical tool in the army list, one that will do it's job extremely well if used extremely well and thinking of ways to improve his game effect.

 

BDS

Played my first game with the new Dex on the weekend, here is my list:

 

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor, Psychic Communion, Force Sword, Hellrifle, Servo Skull

 

3 Plasma Cannon Servitors, 1 Jokaero Weaponsmith, 8 Warrior Acolytes

 

Grey Knight Strike Squad (10), 2 Psycannons, Psybolt Ammunition, Master Crafted Nemesis Daemonhammer

 

Grey Knight Terminator Squad (5), Nemesis Warding Stave, Nemesis Daemonhammer, 3 Nemesis Halberds

 

Grey Knight Stormraven, Twin Linked Multimelta, Twin Linked Lascannons

 

Grey Knight Dreadnought, Multimelta

 

Total:

1000pt.

 

 

Was playing vs BA:

(from memory)

 

Astorath the Grim

 

5 Death Company, 1 TH, 1 PW

 

5 Vanguard, 1 LC, 1 PW

 

10 RAS, 2 MG, 1 PW/PF can't remember

 

5 RAS, 1 MG, 1 PW

 

 

Game was Seize Ground, 5 objectives, Dawn of War. I won roll off and chose side. I deployed my GKSS into combat squads, one forward on the right flank for push back the other in a central building in my DZ with the 2 Psycannons and the Inquisitor. Enemy deployed Astorath and DC behind building on his half, center left. 5 man RAS squad behind another building nearby. Rest of his army in reserve deep striking, rest of my army coming on turn 1. The initiative was seized from me.

 

Turn 1:

Astorath and DC move forward on my left flank, as does the small RAS squad. Shooting takes a wound from the Inquisitor. Forgot about servo skull.

 

Inquisitor warband moves foward on right flank into building, runs to get more movement. I roll the +1 armour for the monkey table, handy. Raven flies on with GKT and Dreadnought, manages to just be in range for GKT to charge Astorath and DC, so I placed the Daemonhammer in B2B with him, rest of squad piling in behind. Dreadnought also disembarks and charges 5 man squad.

Dreadnought kills 1, morale passed. Warding stave saves 3! wounds, one from Astorath, one from PW, one from TH (at I5, I4 and I1 respectively), however Halberds only hit and wound once even with Hammerhand. DH instantly kills Astorath, but I lose 2 GKT. Warp Quake fails on both GKSS combat squads.

 

Turn 2:

RAS from reserve comes in, combat squads. The twin melta squad comes near the Raven but misses with both meltaguns. Other squad arrives further from the action. Vanguard Heroic Intervention scatters 5" onto my Dreadnought and goes back into reserve. Dreadnought kills one more in combat, losing his Dooooomfist to a krak grenade and my GKT finish the DC off with Hammerhand successful again.

 

Checked the rules, mindlock srews on the whole unit if I fail the roll! Luckily I managed to pass the roll. 2 Plasma Cannons fire at the twin melta squad and it disappears, GKT join combat with Dreadnought, bad hit rolls mean there is still 1 BA marine alive. Raven flies towards other combat squad in his DZ and fires everything, MM, LC and 4 Mindstrikes. 1 guy left standing afterwards.

 

Turn 3:

Vanguard come down again and join Dreadnought/GKT/single BA marine combat, other single BA tries to get away from the Raven. Combat sees the Dreadnought wrecked from the Vanguard hammer, another GKT dead, 3 Vanguard dead and the BA marine dead.

 

My turn the Raven kills the last BA marine running into his DZ and combat sees the Vanguard wiped out

 

Victory to the GK.

 

Overall, I love 'Ravens and GKT. The Warding Stave was priceless and was the only thing that gave me victory in 2 separate combats where I needed it. The 'Raven gave me a double charge, and used its firepower to destroy another squad I would have had trouble catching.

WS4 is really frustrating, hitting half the time is so much worse than hitting 2/3 the time. Power weapons and mixed Terminator weapons as troop choices make up for it though.

My GKSS didn't really do much this game, so can't comment there.

Watch out for mindlock messing with the whole squad also, forgot about that. Even in DOW will probably hold the Inquisitor back to babysit the squad. Was happy with them also, one round of shooting and one combat squad disappeared.

I was able to watch a Game between a Pure GK List and DarkEldar, 2000pts

Just a quick recap:

GK Player wanted to use HQ's that seem to be a little unpopular so far, so he went with a Captain and a Brotherhoodchampion. Both joined the same unit of 5 Paladins. Rest of the Army was (if i recall correctly) 10 GKSS, 2 5man squad of Terminators, 1 Stormraven, 1 Venerable Dread with TL Autocannon, Psybolts and Doomfist (It's pronounced DOOOOOOMFIIIIST!!), and something else, which I can't rember now.

DarkEldar went with a rather balanced list, a little bit of everything ;)

 

Overall, it was a tough struggle. Two Units of Wyches completely trashed the SS, although the SS killed a fair amount of Warriors before that (with the help of Psybolts). Ven Dread killed two Raiders, and slaughtered the one of the Wychessquads, taking revenge for the GKSS.

The Brotherhood Champion was the BOSS! Didn't think he would be good at all, but he did a good job. Captain, Champ and Paladins assaulted Archon and his retinue out auf the 'raven. Champion killed the Archon with his I10 attackes, while the Captain and the Paladins made short work of the rest. Two Turns later, Champion, Captain and 3 Paladins (2 got shoot to hell) assaulted lellith and a few of her Bloodbrides in what was supposed to be a suicide Attack. Champ slashed Lady Hesperax to pieces, Paladins and Captain killed all but one Bloodbrides, who in return only took one LP from the captain (talk about lucky dice).

 

Long Story short:

At the End of the game, the only thing standing were: The one Bloodbride (Running for her life), one empty Raider, 3GK Terminators, the Captain, 2 Paladins, and the frickin' champion.

 

Conclusion:

After this, I will probably test out the Champ myself. He doesn't look like much, and I'm still sceptical, but I wanna see, what he can do, to surprise the enemy :P

Paladins are hard to kill, if you know how to throw them into battle.

10man GKSS with Psybolts can unleash quite punishing firepower without getting too expensive

Don't overestimate your own Toughness! GK may be badass dudes, but wenn assaulted by 20 Wyches, they still go down like noones business ;P

 

A more detailed report of a Match against tyranids probably later this Week.

Ciao

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