Witch Hunters?

[Brother Captain Ed]

Ok, so I'm relatively new to 40k (between six months to a year) and I've been playing Ultramarines. However, I've followed the fluff and bought codices and read BL stuff for many years before finally taking the plunge into the actual game. When I first contemplated it a few years ago my top choices were Space Marines (I just dig 'em), Grey Knights, and the Sisters. A friend who was playing at the time recommended against the GKs because they tended to suffer from model count issues (whether it's true or not is irrelevant, it was the reasoning at the time) and against the SoBs because of the model cost.

 

Ok, whatever. So when I got into it, I saw the Sisters still had an old codex and an all pewter line and the GKs also had not been updated while my Space Marines had a shiny drop pod! *squee!*

 

Anyway, so looking over the new GK stuff, it occurs to me that if I had just stuck with them over the advice I'd gotten, I'd have a new codex to play with. Now, I realize that I really liked lots of things fluffwise about the Sisters and the Inquisition over the GK and that branch of Inquisition and I have nothing but time to start accruing them if I so desire...but I'm hesitant.

 

See, while I like playing with flamers and meltas and power armor, I also love my bikes and my drop pods. It takes only a cursory glance to see the Sisters play *completely* differently. I'm worried about abandoning my nifty delivery systems and really worried about going down to T3 when I'm used to "MOAR T5!!1!one!"

 

So, since no one locally plays them, I'm asking for the impression of the veterans. What should a C: SM player know about the Sororitas (other than Immolator Spam) and will my predilection for speed and toughness prevent me from easily picking up the Nuns With Guns?

 

Thank you in advance for all your insight.

[Rommel44]

I recently started playing witchhunters and to be honest, I currently enjoy them a lot more then I ever would playing a Marines because in all honestly I'm tired of an army that has a shiny red button that says I win. They are a lot more of a challenge to play then marines and though they arent considered one of the Top Tier armies, they still have a lot of things going for them. As for me I run a pure Sisters of Battle army with no Inquisitors what so ever, and after playing them for awhile these are some of the pors and cons that I've noticed:

 

Pros

 

* 3+ armor save across the board

* Armed with Bolters

* One of the better armies that can run a rhino rush list.

* Can be very nasty in the shooting phase, especailly at 24"inches.

* Have one of the nastiness Hvy. Support choices in the Exorcist, which also comes w/AP 1 missiles.

* Can run hvy. flamers in there standard Battle Sister Squads, which can have a max of 20x Sisters per Squad!

* Have acess to Acts of Faith, which can give you some really good boosts such as rending bolters, +2 to your Strength or one of my favorites, turning your armor save into a 3+ invulnerable save, and you can use the Acts of Faith by generating faith points, which certian units in the army can do.

* Can run a ton of twin-linked hvy. flamers thanks to Immolators, and like you said above, have access to multiple meltas and flamers throughout the army.

* Sisters come cheap, for you get a standard Battle sister armed with a Bolter and a 3+ save for less then a standard Space Marine by a couple of points!

* Have special character who doesn't die, and keeps giving you 3 faith points everytime she does or when she comes back to life.

* There Canoness can be armed w/some nasty weaponry and armor saves, generates more faith points for your army, and you can get all of that for under 100 points!

 

Cons:

 

* Are Toughness 3 across the board

* Lack Long-Range anti-tank weaponry (Exorsist is the only one with long range), which is only S8.

* Army is not that effective in CC, and for the Sisters to do the most damage they have to be at least 24 inches away.

* Lack ordance weaponry.

* Still have to pay for frag and krak grenades, and are still paying 50+ points for a rhino.

* Only have 2 special characters, one of which is now in the new GK Codex.

 

Overall, the Sisters of Battle are an effective midrange shooting army, which can recieve some good boosts from ther Acts of Faith that can help them out depending on the oppenent. Currently, I am 3-0-1 with my Sisters at the moment, managing to draw against a Necron player (which I will tell you now that Sisters will struggle against due to the fact we have nothing that can kill the Monolith Spam), massacuring a Space Marine player as well as a Dark Eldar, and pulling off a solid victory against the new Grey Knights so I am definetly enjoying my Sisters at the moment :wub:. Hope this helps mate.

[Fredegar Kadere]

The most important thing to know about the Sororitas is Acts of Faith. A Sisters of Battle army lives and dies by the proper use of Faith Acts during a game. Using Acts brings another dimension of strategy to the game that other armies outside of one or two units lack. Giving a squad invulnerable saves, rallying after falling back even when below 50%, getting your own power weapon to strike first, increasing your own chance to wound if you'll strike last, or allowing your basic weapons to count as power weapons/ap1. Each Act has a time and a place and using one to early or to late can mean a different game.

 

The Sisters of Battle units do have the good save of Space Marines, so the 3+ helps mitigate alot of the fire aimed their way. The downside is that they are easier to wound and to kill with toughness 3 so there are numerous more 3+ roles one has to make in a game. An area where the Sisters shine is that they make extremely effective tar pits against any unit type, provided the squad is not wiped out on a charge. Where as a Space Marine squad would fear terminators, a MC, genestealers, or any power weapon heavy foe crashing into them, the Sisters with Spirit of the Martyr up treats it as a normal everyday combat. Your Squad will not kill anything, but it will help tie up the opponent for a few turns to prevent the enemy from running through your lines.

 

Deep striking is unreliable and only available to costly Seraphim squads.

 

If you decide to run Storm Troopers then your strategy will be more akin to playing Veteran Squad heavy Imperial Guard.

 

Other than Godhammer Land Raiders and Exorcist tanks the Witch Hunters have a severe lack of long range fire power. You can stack up on Multi-meltas but they are costly, immobile, and a mid-range defense at best. While we may lack long range fire power, the Exorcist is considered to be one of the scariest tanks with the possible six str 8 ap 1 shots a turn.

 

At the end of the day Sororitas > Spehss Mahreens

[WarriorFish]

Huzzah, another player interested! The more Sisters players the better! B)

 

Sisters are all about attacking the enemy as they're most effective at <12". That's pretty much the only way they're effective too due to the lack of long range abilities in particular anti-tank.

 

Sisters load up on short ranged special weapons so it's all about managing the table with your units. If you like bikers then you can replicate a similar style with mechanised Sister squads and Seraphim where you can/must play aggressively. Not sure about toughness though Sisters can convert their save to an invulnerable one.

 

That said, I always preferred my armies to play differently to each other! Have a good look at the codex and the =][= section of the B&C (there's some good "classic" SoB lists in the Inquistional army section currently) to see if you like what you see.

[Brother Dylan]

It's plus two to strength not toughness, other than that the other posters have the sisters spot on.

[Brother Captain Ed]

Thank you all for the insight. So, if the Sisters are a close quarters army without being assault oriented, how do they close with the enemy (especially ones like the Tau) and how do they keep from being eaten alive by assault armies?

 

I am definitely interested and would love to hear any further insight you might have. :)

 

 

 

* Have special character who doesn't die, and keeps giving you 3 faith points everytime she does or when she comes back to life.

 

I'm not sure about the coming back to life part...but I didn't think Martyrdom applies to Miraculous Intervention. Am I reading it wrong?

[Chengar Qordath]

Thank you all for the insight. So, if the Sisters are a close quarters army without being assault oriented, how do they close with the enemy (especially ones like the Tau) and how do they keep from being eaten alive by assault armies?

Sisters should almost always be in Rhinos or other transports to close in on the enemy.

 

As for surviving as a close-quarters shooting army, Divine Guidance is a big part of it, and huge numbers of flame weapons is the rest.

[andrewm9]

Sisters should almost always be in Rhinos or other transports to close in on the enemy.

 

As for surviving as a close-quarters shooting army, Divine Guidance is a big part of it, and huge numbers of flame weapons is the rest.

 

This is absolutely critical here. As an add on to that use a Seraphim Squad to stop from being charged, hit and run away, and then proceed to bolter, flamer, melta down the enemy. Its quite effective. Its how I killed my buddy's Seer Biker council with attached Farseer. He got zero shooting out and I locked down the unit. Granted I lost Seraphim every turn until it was only St Celestine left, but she proved to be rock solid against them. I poured out divine guidance until they all died. Since it was a small game, it proved worthwhile. I may not have won (it was a draw in fact thanks to his Space Wolf team mate) but it fun killing those pointy eared xeno scum.

[Hellios]

Thank you all for the insight. So, if the Sisters are a close quarters army without being assault oriented, how do they close with the enemy (especially ones like the Tau) and how do they keep from being eaten alive by assault armies?

Sisters should almost always be in Rhinos or other transports to close in on the enemy.

 

 

If your group allows FW... Repressors... You cannot have two many unles.. you have small squads in which case immolators are better ;)

[Rommel44]

Thank you all for the insight. So, if the Sisters are a close quarters army without being assault oriented, how do they close with the enemy (especially ones like the Tau) and how do they keep from being eaten alive by assault armies?

Sisters should almost always be in Rhinos or other transports to close in on the enemy.

 

As for surviving as a close-quarters shooting army, Divine Guidance is a big part of it, and huge numbers of flame weapons is the rest.

 

 

Argreed. Rhinos and other transports are a really good way to get close to the enemy, where you can use your flame templates and your rapid-fire bolters to good effect. However, a squad of 20x Sisters can be pretty nasty, especially when you give them Divine Guidness.

[Chengar Qordath]

However, a squad of 20x Sisters can be pretty nasty, especially when you give them Divine Guidness.

Yeah, large footslogger squads can be really nasty if you can get them into range relatively intact. However, getting them into range is a tricky proposition, especially against firepower-heavy opponents like Tau and Guard. Leman Russ pieplates love large footslogger squads...

[melvinmcsnatch]

(Pure Sisters player here.) Some of this has already been said, but here's yet another opinion of the Witch Hunters:

 

The differences between WH and the Astartes comes down to volume, survivability, options and faith.

 

Sisters specialize in volume. You're getting more bodies with cheap power armor, cheap meltas, lots of heavy flames and bolters (both can rend with Divine Guidance.) 2-3 squads in that <12" range chew anything to pieces. It's a shooty army, but with way more of an aggressive playstyle than Tau or Guard.

 

Unlike the Astartes, Sisters are fragile in every phase. A squad of Sisters can lose close combat against Tau Firewarriors if the dice don't go your way. Rhino 'destroyed' results take out 2-3 Sisters consistently. However, as some have mentioned, using faith can give a squad a 3+ invul save, making them an extreme pain in the butt against power weapons or incoming battle cannons.

 

Sisters have very few options. Every choice is just a slighty different version of the same Sister model. Celestians are just regular Sisters with better WS and I. Seraphim are Celestians with jet packs. Dominions and Retributors are Sisters with 4 special or 4 heavy weapons.

 

Our anti-tank is confined to meltaguns for AV13+ or the Exorcist for light armor.

 

The Exorcist is a fantastic piece of machinery that will clean up heavy infantry, multi-wound models and transports with ease. It's unreliable but quickly becomes the bane of your opponents existence and is usually singled out early in the game.

 

The Immolator holds a small unit (almost inconsequential except they can carry 2x melta). They come armed with TL-HFlames stock that you can move 12" and still fire. It's a potent weapon except it's super-flimsy (Rhino class) and if your opponent fears it, it'll be destroyed that very turn.

 

---

Inquisition Setup

 

We have two competitive Inquisition players at my store. It doesn't appeal to me, but their tactics are:

 

Inquisitor Lord with Psychic Hood, Heavy Bolter Henchmen, sit back

3x Exorcists, sit back

Fill the rest of list with 2x melta or melta/plasma IST squads in Chimera, drive-by and shoot stuff.

 

All other Inquisition models are garbage. They have terrible rules and they cost too much. Grey Knights have had theirs redone(?), but we still have to live with the old rules.

[WarriorFish]

Celestine's "death" doesn't give you any Faith Points, but rather takes them away the first time it happens. It's the reason why she's not always that popular which is fair enough.

 

I've nothing more to add to this sterling advice save for a bit more clarification on how I think they play best; it is indeed about shooting the enemy to bits with Divine Guidance but you can't always Faith. In my experience it's all about carefully managing your forces (and the enemy to a degree). Isolate enemy units where possible and hit them hard (Rhinos are great for this). It takes some experience to know how hard a unit can hit with certain weapons but once you have the hang of it you can effectively apply the right amount of fire to an enemy unit to be sure to wipe them out or render them ineffective.

 

The best way to avoid the counter charge is to make sure there isn't anyone left to perform one ;) Also a +1 for the numbers game, Sisters should always have a good model count I think :P

 

 

As an off topic aside, nice to see my fellow Witch Hunters out in force even in these grey skies :)

[Brother Captain Ed]

Thanks everyone for the detailed analysis. I am pleased to see that folks are still out there. Maybe we'll even see a new codex in the coming years. ;)

 

Anyway, I'm always accepting wisdom, so thank you for the help.

 

Inquisition Setup

 

We have two competitive Inquisition players at my store. It doesn't appeal to me, but their tactics are:

 

Inquisitor Lord with Psychic Hood, Heavy Bolter Henchmen, sit back

3x Exorcists, sit back

Fill the rest of list with 2x melta or melta/plasma IST squads in Chimera, drive-by and shoot stuff.

 

This irritates me because it's really an IG list with access to the old, better psychic hood. There is a guy who does (well, did) something similar here, using the IG codex and the old GK Allies rule to run the better hood and mystics. That way his massive firepower was able to either focus fire on reserves or shoot you up as you moved across the battlefield. Mixing and matching codices is bad, m'kay...

 

Anyway, one thing I really like about the new GK codex is that it is clearly a GK army. And not a bunch of inducted guardsmen with some expensive power armor or TDA -clad buddies. Hopefully, the Sisters will get something similar in the future.

 

Ok, rant off.

 

thanks again guys! Keep it coming! ;)

[Rommel44]

However, a squad of 20x Sisters can be pretty nasty, especially when you give them Divine Guidness.

Yeah, large footslogger squads can be really nasty if you can get them into range relatively intact. However, getting them into range is a tricky proposition, especially against firepower-heavy opponents like Tau and Guard. Leman Russ pieplates love large footslogger squads...

 

True, but at the same time if your fighting against an army such as Tyranids or Blood Angels, a big squad of 20x Sisters can really hurt if they can get into rapid fire range, especially with Divine Guidance. But I agree with you to a certian extent since I personally plan to field a Mechanized Sister list becasue overall it is a lot more effective, but its still fun once and awhile to mix things up thorw down a big squad of Nuns with Guns and watch them mow down opponents ;).

[andrewm9]

However, a squad of 20x Sisters can be pretty nasty, especially when you give them Divine Guidness.

Yeah, large footslogger squads can be really nasty if you can get them into range relatively intact. However, getting them into range is a tricky proposition, especially against firepower-heavy opponents like Tau and Guard. Leman Russ pieplates love large footslogger squads...

 

True, but at the same time if your fighting against an army such as Tyranids or Blood Angels, a big squad of 20x Sisters can really hurt if they can get into rapid fire range, especially with Divine Guidance. But I agree with you to a certian extent since I personally plan to field a Mechanized Sister list becasue overall it is a lot more effective, but its still fun once and awhile to mix things up thorw down a big squad of Nuns with Guns and watch them mow down opponents :D.

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