Blood Angels Vs Tyranids

[Elsven]

Hello,

 

I am just getting back into play my blood angels army again, been out of it since 3rd edition codex. I am currently in a league and am looking at going up against a Tyranid army this week. I was wondering if any one had any suggestions and tips on how to play against them. My one list has 3 preds with auto and las cannons, 3 RAS with (PF, and 2 MM), Dante with honor guard, 2 priests, and Ferioso librarian. My second list is a Librarian, Sanguinary Guard, Storm Raven, Ball Pred, LAS, (no auto cannon) Pred, 2 RAS(PF, and 2 MM), one TAS(Plasma Gun and Cannon), Ferioso dreadnought with blood talons, and two priests. The points will be 2000 and since I have already picked my lists I cannot change them. Basically I would like to know what types of threats I may encounter, how to react to them, and just an idea of what to be aware of and how to ply my list the best i can. Any comments, suggestions, ideas, and help would be greatly appreciated as always.

 

Regards,

 

Elsven

[Emperors Immortals]

Shoot whatever is being protected by hive gaurds with Ass can and plasma - force them to break without getting into CC.

 

Kill that xeno that spews out little aunts (tervigore?!?!) real quick and the others lose there mad bonuses.

 

Basically, shoot all teh plasma at teh big guys and ignore anythign you can.

[AngelOfDeathXIII]

I've played Nids only once but I agree. Basically use your heavier weapons to kill everything big. Use bolters and bolt pistol to soften up the enemy. Avoid the use of PFs... Try to charge with the Furioso Dread with Blood Talons and units subject to the Red Thirst.. Keep at least Dante HG and SG in reserve...

[Emperors Immortals]

theres a couple of things i forgot to ask; can you choose between the lists each battle or do you play a random one?What does your HG come equipped with?Also, dont be afraid to start your RAS on table if you want to castle up (dread on foot would benefit from this particularily).

[Elsven]

theres a couple of things i forgot to ask; can you choose between the lists each battle or do you play a random one?What does your HG come equipped with?Also, dont be afraid to start your RAS on table if you want to castle up (dread on foot would benefit from this particularily).

 

I get to choose what list I am going to play before the game starts. Also, one Idea I did have was using my tanks as a buffer. I was looking at their units and only creatures with rending and that are monstrous can hurt them in close combat. I h ave been thinking that I can take out the threats to the dread and tanks and use them as a buffer while the rest of my army sands behind them and shoots everything. Also with furious charge I should make sure that if he can attack I should make sure that I do have the charge going into close combat that will put me at the same imitative or higher then almost all of his units. But for the most part im getting that close combat is not the way to go for me, witch is bad because both of my lists do not have much ranged.

 

Elsven

[Brother Nathan]

rember that nearly no nid units have grenades... B)

[*Riken*]

Brother Nathan brings up an excellent point if you can not make an assault but can see your going to be assaulted make sure your units are in cover so you strike first. Personally I would use your first list because those predators will make short work of all the large nids though you will have to be careful of him targeting them with zoanthorpes or the carnifex variant with the s10 gun (the name has slipped my mind). Warriors with bone swords can be another big issue make sure you shoot them to bits as they would eat and assault squad alive. The librarian dread would help shut down some of there powers but shadow in the warp will do the same for you.

Really though like others have said make sure you shoot up all of there squads before assaulting them, don't let them charge you out in the open and kill the big bugs first and you should be fine.

 

Riken

[Rybnick]

Another thing that has served me very well while fighting Tyranids is multi charging. Multi-charge a unit of let's say Termagaunts along with their Tervagon and dump all your regular attacks into the gaunts (which typicall kills all or 70-80% of them depending on brood size in my experience) then PW/PF's into the Tervigon. You should easily win combat and force the unit to take fearless saves due to combat resolution. I've killed many a MC this way.

[Emperors Immortals]

The 3 replies before this are golden, remember them.

 

My good mate runs bugs and ive found a denied flank using Razors as a screen (end to end to force them to lap around to me) is a terrific tactic - itll work better with preds and allow your dread to get off a charge.

 

Always stick to cover, make him come to you and like is said - shoot them dead!!!

[Elsven]

Brother Nathan brings up an excellent point if you can not make an assault but can see your going to be assaulted make sure your units are in cover so you strike first. Personally I would use your first list because those predators will make short work of all the large nids though you will have to be careful of him targeting them with zoanthorpes or the carnifex variant with the s10 gun (the name has slipped my mind). Warriors with bone swords can be another big issue make sure you shoot them to bits as they would eat and assault squad alive. The librarian dread would help shut down some of there powers but shadow in the warp will do the same for you.

Really though like others have said make sure you shoot up all of there squads before assaulting them, don't let them charge you out in the open and kill the big bugs first and you should be fine.

 

Riken

 

 

Wouldn't it be better for me to charge them first? Since i spread the priests out in my army, I could use the furious charge and the extra initiative, strength, and attack to hopefully take them out. Also I was thinking that if i do take tanks then Zoanthorpes will be my first targets considering they will be the biggest threat. Mind you with 6 lass cannons and 6 auto cannons shooting at things they do not last very long, plus with fast vehicles I can move 6 inches and shoot everything. I figure the first round will be taking out tanks threats, the second will be taking out Worriers, Gene Steelers and maybe Shike, things with high initiative. Then I will work on monstrous creatures if I can. As for jumping in the bush before I get attacked I think it should depend on whats going to attack me, if it has a higher initiative then i will jump in the bush but if i can attack first and will have the higher initiative with ferrous charge, I think that would be the better route to go. ass for assaults, I am pretty good about jumping in at one inch away and then shooting everything I can at the unit then assaulting. One thing I also noticed about the Tyranids was their armor is very high. Even my bolt pistols will cause unsaved wounds on most of their guys. The hard thing will be staying just inside the 12" without having to charge.for the first couple rounds I am thinking that my tanks will be the stars of the show. I am also toying with the idea of using some bumper units to die just so i can shoot them up.

[Brother Biskit]

First rule against 'Nids is to shoot them up as much as you can. 'Nid infantry (even 'Stealers) only work well en mass, reduce them too small squads of 5 or 6 and they are useless. The big problem you will see is the MCs. The best thing I find is to look at your list and split it in two, units with high S low AP weapons in one group and bolter type weapons in the other. Then prioritise each group its best target.

 

Don't be fooled into shooting through the Gaunts in front to get to the Genestealers behind. Guants in big groups are just as deadly on the assault due to the number of attacks they can put out. Its better to shred the gaunts and worry about one brood of 'stealers than take down half the 'stealers thanks to cover saves and then worry about the two broods hitting you.

 

Don't worry about cover when deploying, Nids have almost no guns with an AP better than 4, so you will always be making 3+ saves.

 

Always deploy at least 30" away, this will prevent almost all his units from assaulting you untill at least his turn 3 (most 'Nids can move up to 12" a turn or 18" if they can assault, just watch for winged units). Finaly watch out for outflanking Genestealers, they can and will mess up your day.

[Elsven]

First rule against 'Nids is to shoot them up as much as you can. 'Nid infantry (even 'Stealers) only work well en mass, reduce them too small squads of 5 or 6 and they are useless. The big problem you will see is the MCs. The best thing I find is to look at your list and split it in two, units with high S low AP weapons in one group and bolter type weapons in the other. Then prioritise each group its best target.

 

Don't be fooled into shooting through the Gaunts in front to get to the Genestealers behind. Guants in big groups are just as deadly on the assault due to the number of attacks they can put out. Its better to shred the gaunts and worry about one brood of 'stealers than take down half the 'stealers thanks to cover saves and then worry about the two broods hitting you.

 

Don't worry about cover when deploying, Nids have almost no guns with an AP better than 4, so you will always be making 3+ saves.

 

Always deploy at least 30" away, this will prevent almost all his units from assaulting you untill at least his turn 3 (most 'Nids can move up to 12" a turn or 18" if they can assault, just watch for winged units). Finaly watch out for outflanking Genestealers, they can and will mess up your day.

 

Unfortunately, my armies shooting range is only12", the only things that can shoot farther are my 3 preds(48") and my two land speeders(24"). This gives me 12 shots at 48" range, and 2 shots at a 24 inch range. So right now I'm thinking I will deploy my troops as far out while still maintaining at least a 24 inch gap between us. then I will continue to fall back as much as i can and choose my targets wisely ensuring that i maintain over 18 inches between us. Once I cannot retreat no more I can ether offer up my tanks and the dreadnought in order to by time while i shoot them up with bolt pistols, go for the charge and ensure I get the extra attacks not him, plus furious charge will give me +1 strength, and + 1 initiative. Or I can bunker down in some terain near by, ether way I want to get around of shooting in before the assault.

[Brother Nathan]

see the problem with assaulting nids is their initive. sure things like the fex and rippers are init 1, and normal gaunts are only init 4, but the likes of hormagaunts are init 5, stealers 6 etc. with the numbers they have being denyed thecharge sure hurts them, but having the init means they still hurt you. if you can win with the charge go for it. but you wont always be able to, and having init 10 due to bing in cover can help. especially if you have tacticals rapidfiring then taking the charge can work better than firing your pistol and charging. also cause of the likes of stealers getting nerfed this hurts them more(i miss my 4+armour and frags...) regardless if you use this tactic or not its good to be aware of it incase you need to change tactica during the match. also note that most nids can also buy furious charge... so if you go for the kill and get your distances wrong it will cost you.

and as for just killing zoans, have you played them? likely they will be in a pod deepstriking in turn 2 like a drop pod. and will get the first chance to get your armour. and with the best gun power in the game your likely looking at loosiing a tank to them right away. and they have a 3++dont waste the autocannon shots at them. if you can use stufff that insta kills them and use those last. although if you are pouring all that firepower at hem instead of the rest of my nid frce i would be happy that my warriors wernt getting it... but then thats how i play... :)

[Elsven]

see the problem with assaulting nids is their initive. sure things like the fex and rippers are init 1, and normal gaunts are only init 4, but the likes of hormagaunts are init 5, stealers 6 etc. with the numbers they have being denyed thecharge sure hurts them, but having the init means they still hurt you. if you can win with the charge go for it. but you wont always be able to, and having init 10 due to bing in cover can help. especially if you have tacticals rapidfiring then taking the charge can work better than firing your pistol and charging. also cause of the likes of stealers getting nerfed this hurts them more(i miss my 4+armour and frags...) regardless if you use this tactic or not its good to be aware of it incase you need to change tactica during the match. also note that most nids can also buy furious charge... so if you go for the kill and get your distances wrong it will cost you.

and as for just killing zoans, have you played them? likely they will be in a pod deepstriking in turn 2 like a drop pod. and will get the first chance to get your armour. and with the best gun power in the game your likely looking at loosiing a tank to them right away. and they have a 3++dont waste the autocannon shots at them. if you can use stufff that insta kills them and use those last. although if you are pouring all that firepower at hem instead of the rest of my nid frce i would be happy that my warriors wernt getting it... but then thats how i play... :lol:

 

Yea, I have been looking at their codex and am not liking what I see. Since I do not have much of a shooting army things do not look good for me. I know that if I am going to have a chance at this I need to be in cover, and count on my troops ability to kill them off first. If I can get the charge on things will lower initiative I will do that preferably. if there is no cover well, I just have to make sure I charge first on everything, those extra attacks will kill me. Ether way, things are not looking very good for me and I may want to think about adding some more ranged firing, im thinking that a minimum of one ball pred is a must and maybe a flamer or two.

[*Riken*]

Running a flamer in your assault squads would really help as would a Sergeant with a hand flamer. My personal opinion would be done pour all those shots from your tanks into the zoanthorpes as they do have a 3++ save and those shots would be best used on warriors or hive tyrants. I think you would be better off trying your best to get your preds into cover and then assaulting the zoanthorpes with a RAS you probably won't kill them in one turn but you can keep them from firing and they suck in CC so its doubtful you will even lose a marine. As a former tyranid player i can say that you firing all that high S low Ap fire at zoanthorpes is doing exactly what I want you to do as the rest of my army advances taking very little fire.

 

Your over all plan with fall back and shoot isn't bad and should work for a turn maybe 2. I wouldn't worry too much most everything has had a 5 or 6 save and can be killed even with a bolt pistol.

[Rybnick]

Depending on how your opponent deployes his Zoanthropes should help you to determine what resource to use against them. If your enemy Mycetic Spore's (aka drop pod) his Zoan's in then I'd say count on RAS w/ melta and bolt pistols and a nice assault afterwards to wear them down, and if he delpoyes his Zoan's on the board then the Preds should probably try and pick them off early. Most people in my area tend to pod in their Zoanthropes so if I take tanks I'll usually try and wrap infantry around my tanks to protect them as much as possible. With bubble wrap and scatter often times the spores will scatter outside of their intended targets range or you can force mishaps if your opponent is bold with his spores.

[Elsven]

Well, unfortunately the battle was lost. The mission ended up being an ambush type missions so I had to deploy in the middle of the table and he could deploy on ether side of me. Obviously he put all of his forces together however he left 3 units off the table. Further more my secret objective was to kill his HQ, but thankfully one of them was an independent so Dante's curse was able to be use on him. Since I could assault on round one I took the opportunity and did exactly that. The mission points were kill points and I was able to score 3 kill points in the first round of assault by killing one troop squad and three monstrous creatures HQ. Since I did a multi assault on one troop unit and three of his monstrous creatures, the wounds(11 wounds total) from the slaughter were enough to obliterate two of his monstrous creatures and the third was killed in the next round of fighting. The multi assault also forced me to keep two of my assault squads in close combat another round. The third assault group was able to pull back after the assault while my tanks plumbed his not fully exposed HQ. After that I was able to kill his HQ, most of his heavy, as my tanks fell back. If it were not for my secret objective I would have done much better because I would not have had to sacrifice my HQ and one tactical squad trying to kill his swarm lord. Dente should have killed him on the first round but couldn't seem to pull off a single 5 or 6 with 7 dice attacking to get rid of his last wound. Anyway I am now looking at what types of things I can add to my troops so I can deal with Tyranids a bit better. Right now im thinking of 2 ball preds, two regular preds, and maybe a flame pistol to each squad. Let me know what you guys think your comments are appreciated.

[Highborn Mergula]

VINDICATORS!

Because Str10 large blast i mean thats great.

Also drop pods with deathwind launcher.

Theyre like range 12 str5 but Large blast!

[Emperors Immortals]

First, congratz on a well fought battle, its a tough set up you got there but you sound like you did alright.

 

That said, i wouldnt tweak your list too much in one go - you seem to have a list that you felt comfortable with and could use well and i think they are the hardest parts of a succesful list.

 

Maybe a VV squad could help with CC support and hold, but SG are decent too.Hell, if you go like that you may as well DP a stern squad.

 

Id recommend adding as many flamers/plasma as possible - nids hate flames and BA can handle plasma better then anyone due to our FnP.

 

Good luck.

[Elsven]

First, congratz on a well fought battle, its a tough set up you got there but you sound like you did alright.

 

That said, i wouldnt tweak your list too much in one go - you seem to have a list that you felt comfortable with and could use well and i think they are the hardest parts of a succesful list.

 

Maybe a VV squad could help with CC support and hold, but SG are decent too.Hell, if you go like that you may as well DP a stern squad.

 

Id recommend adding as many flamers/plasma as possible - nids hate flames and BA can handle plasma better then anyone due to our FnP.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Thanks for the advice and the support. I am thinking of adding some ball preds. They will go well with my army, their scout move makes them a big threat and armor 13 is really hard to take out. Also being a fast vehicle I always move 6 inches and shoot everything, making them harder to hit in close combat as well. Further more I was also thinking of putting ina few thunder hammers. The hammers I think may allow me to deal with the monstrous creatures in close combat since they seemed to be doing the most damage. as long as i can put a wound on them with that thunder hammer I have the ability of stunning them the next round so i don't get killed off, and well i can spare the extra 5 points to upgrade them from the power fists. In order to make these changes I had to give up my two land speeders, so well have to see how this goes. As for plasmas I was thinking of having an honor guard running around with plasma guns just so I could rapid fire plasmas and support with FNP. The unit would cost 220 and may be a good addition for taking out things with lots of wounds, 8 plasma shouts can be dangerous.

 

Elsven

[spec.ops]

BA v. Nids is just one of those match ups you give it your all and hope for the best because nids have the upper hand against infantry armies; however, nids lose a lot against armored lists which is every other army out there in 40k so don't feel too bad.

 

The real losers are Nids.

 

As for teching your list, well I don’t like teching for anyone army but the meta; however, in one of my fun lists I make use of the DC and I could see them helping out a lot against nids. This load out is built for Ardz: Resch w/ storm bolter + 15xDC w/ no upgrades + Crusader w/ Melta = dice bucket! This will help you with your lack of range and destroy 30 gaunt squads in one go.

[knife&fork]

As for plasmas I was thinking of having an honor guard running around with plasma guns just so I could rapid fire plasmas and support with FNP. The unit would cost 220 and may be a good addition for taking out things with lots of wounds, 8 plasma shouts can be dangerous.

 

Someone in a thread about HG brought up that you can in fact take two special weapons on your HG. We talked about taking both meltas and flamers. For tyranids or eldar plasma guns are probably better than meltas, at least if you don't want to attach a really mean IC.

[Elsven]

BA v. Nids is just one of those match ups you give it your all and hope for the best because nids have the upper hand against infantry armies; however, nids lose a lot against armored lists which is every other army out there in 40k so don't feel too bad.

 

The real losers are Nids.

 

As for teching your list, well I don’t like teching for anyone army but the meta; however, in one of my fun lists I make use of the DC and I could see them helping out a lot against nids. This load out is built for Ardz: Resch w/ storm bolter + 15xDC w/ no upgrades + Crusader w/ Melta = dice bucket! This will help you with your lack of range and destroy 30 gaunt squads in one go.

 

Yes, I can agree. You never want to add to many points to one squad otherwise the enemies will concentrate on that one unit and the points will be wasted. However in the bigger lists you really can get away with it. Beside my honor guard really has payed itself off. In my army it serves a multi purpose role, the apothecary is very useful and saves me an elite choice and gives FNP some additional wounds, also they are really good on the assault especially with a power fist. Getting in 3 power fist hits really wears the enemy down a lot.and with the thunder hammer moving their initiative down to one that may give me the chance to get more hits in before the enemy goes. I was also thinking of adding in a blood champion for the extra weapons skill but am not sure if it will really help out. The DC for me is not an option at this time, they just cost to much to get jump packs and the land raider would just slow my army down. Right now I doubt I will be fielding DC until I stir getting around 2500 points. The ball pred may be very useful in my army too, I ran two in my 1500 point list this weekend and they easily paid for themselves. Between the two of them that is 20 shots at AP 4, and 8 of them can be rerolled with rending. If they don't do a lot of damage to the enemy they will at lease take the shooing and by time for my troops to make it into combat and clean up.

[Commander Sasha]

I play 'Nids, well to be exact Skaven Counts-As-Nids, and although I don't know BA that well, here are some things that I have to work hard to avoid:

 

S8 shots and punches: with my best guns (Zoes and Hive guard), most of my elites, and all my Warrior variants being T4, those Instant death hits mean three suffered wounds for every successfully inflicted one (and most S8 ignores my armour). When my lovely Raveners hit a small marine squad with a fist, I rend lots of them, but then the fist IDs 2 of them, and I receive 6 wounds, losing the round, and depleting my round 2.

 

Understand Synapse and Instinctive behaviour. Mycetic spores full of non-synapse will wander off quite easily: kite the IB:Feeders, and move out of range of the IB:Lurkers. Take out Synapse creatures when the brood advances, and they will dither. Beware, though: towards the end of the game, Synapse can hurt me, as a reduced brood of gaunts gets slaughtered when it is fearless, but might run away successfully because of high Initiative.

 

Tervigons, the spawning MCs: she is rubbish in CC, so whether killpoint or objective she is my fullback (She can be a troop option, so scoring); she catches my falling back units allowing re-group, and with a psychic power has an increased Synapse range.

 

Grenades/assaulting into AND OUT OF cover. Grr, don't get me started. If you, OR I, am in cover, I'm hitting at Init 1. Seriously? I can Move Through IT, but I trip over when I sneak up on you!?!? Tyranids get mashed if you hide in the bushes.

 

Be aware of my range. Outflankers (Genestealers, or troops if the Tyrant has "Hive Commander") can move, shoot or maybe run, and assault; don't deploy within 18" of the sides, or your devestators/light tanks will get eaten.

 

The key to understanding and playing, or defeating, Tyranids, is that we are much more co-dependant; synergy is everything. most 'Nid players learn early that "making your points back" is a hopeless yardstick, and that frontline suicide squads, multi-layer assaults ("The Onion" formation) are the key. Fast swoopers, distraction melees, backfield reserves...a marine doing nothing for a round is a waste of points; a Tyranid doing the same is waiting to react to a change in environment.

To beat a Tyranid player, you need to break his synergy: figure out WHY he's doing something, pull out one stick, and the tower comes tumbling down.

I usually win, or lose, by a large margin. close battles are rare.

 

Oh, and finally, on behalf of the Great Devourer, if you're going to turn up wearing red, at least have the decency to be marinaded in something spicy. If I wanted vanilla flavour I'd pick on the blue ones.