Flight of the Stormraven

[Red Lost Soldier]

I have a Storm Raven coming my way, and I'm brainstorming ideas about them. I don't have any practical experience with them yet, but I have been reading others experience and theorising. Hopefully we can pool our resources and come up with some ideas on how they will fit in with the GK army. As stated however, this is theory to me so feel free to correct me with real battle information.

 

So SR's have been around for a few months, and from what I've gathered from the BA release, there are a few major issues:

 

1) Do not treat them like Land Raiders

The combination of the LR capacity, and the assault ramp movement makes them closely compared to the LR in terms of role, however there are a few big issues here. They are simple not the equivalent of LR armour. Ceramite plating is nice, but the lower armour value opens the SR up to incoming fire from the tradition medium range anti tank that simply is everywhere in armies these days, and for good reason. Anything an army takes to deal with Chimeras, Rhinos, Raiders (the DE ones that is), Wave Serpents etc. are also capable of taking the SR out, and with its points cost and expensive cargo this is even better for your opponent. Which leads onto the next point.

 

2) Reserve your SR's in order to survive

Unless you can hide them, getting shot first turn is a bad situation for your SR. Their huge size and height makes cover a virtual impossibility on many tables. Reserving means you simply cannot be shot before you are moving, and quite possibly getting at the very least a standard cover save. This can be made even better with a GK Librarian inside or nearby to boost this with The Shrouding. The drawback of this tactic is relying on reserve rolls. Always a risky process. The GK have a fantastic tool to mitigate this however, Psychic Communion. Either a GK GM or an Inquisitor can take this. I prefer the latter as you will need to have this guy on the board to use him, and the Inquisitor is far cheaper. Though if you are already planning on taking the GK GM for other purposes such as The Grand Strategy you can keep him. However you are investing a lot of points on the SR and you need the GM on the board to get the SR on the board quickly, which limits his ability to be placed in reserve himself. I think Psychic Communion is going to be essential for any SR army.

 

3) Mindstrike Missiles for the win!

A great deal of fuss is being made about the enemies ability to shut down the GK psychic powers, and for good reason. It is a huge dent in our arsenal if things like Psychic Hoods, Runes of Warding, Runic Weapons etc. can prevent our powers going off. These missiles I believe could be your best answer to that. We are basically looking at a small blast bolter shot, with rail gun range. Not too exciting at first, though handy that it counts as a defensive weapon, so we can let fly with all 4 plus a main weapon if we don't move the SR more than 12" in one turn. Nice. The best part is the Psi Shock though. Automatic Perils of the Warp against any psyker hit. Any psyker hit means any under the template once scatter is resolved, even if the wound is latter transferred to another member of the squad (BRB p30). This means no hiding inside squads for enemy psykers! You may even want your enemy to transfer the wound, and you can quite literally kill two enemies with one shot here. Most Psykers are 2/3 wounds max, so you stand a good chance of killing them with 4 shots. Ghosthelms are frustrating here, but the rest of the damage from the missiles may help remove any other infantry protecting the psyker. Yet even a 3+ save can be failed, as we are only too aware. Also Tyranid MC psykers are fair game for these missiles, easy to hit and wound. All this from right across the board if you want. You will have to get the enemy psykers out of their transports if they are inside, which is fairly likely, but you did bring Psycannons right?

 

4) Do not forget about Dreadnought transport

We don't have the amazing combat dreadnoughts of the BA, but a cheap AC/MM Dreadnought with Doomfist is still a great deal of trouble if dumped behind enemy lines. No need to buy any upgrades, even EA as we have psychic pilots. For slightly more than a 5 man GKSS this can be a big headache for the enemy, on top of the SR and anything inside appearing in their lines.

 

5) It is also a gunship, not just a transport

The SR comes standard with some impressive anti personal fire from the two guns aside from the Mindstrike missiles, also with free swaps to rare anti tank guns (for a GK army). Once the transporting is done, or in between, the SR makes and excellent gunship with fast movement, PotMS, and impressive weaponry included in the cost. A big profile is great for contesting objectives, but this phase of its life should be utilised after most high strength fast firing weaponry has been silenced.

 

6) Expensive, so have a plan for it before you deploy

Even a standard SR, with a moderate combat squad and cheap Dreadnought comes in at a similar cost to a LR full of Terminators. This is a huge chunk of any army, so making the most of it is essential for the armies success. I don't think cramming a SR into a GK army (or any army) as an afterthought is going to work. Have a plan of attack, use this amazing vehicle to really tear the heart out of an important enemy position.

 

 

I'm running out of thoughts. Feel free to add battle reports, thoughts, anything. I can update the first post of this thread as it moves along.

[Godhead]

Unless I am mistaken, a lib inside casting shrouding then moving flat out = 3+ cover save. This plus potms your weapon loadout of choice could be a real headach. Then after all of that...dumb some nice cc cargo on someones head.

[RedemptionNL]

Nice read. Keep in mind that the Mindstrike missiles are Blast, not Large Blast though.

[Whitefireinferno]

I like your Raven a fair Bit thanks to the ability to dish out 6 small blasts in one turn.

[Red Lost Soldier]

Nice read. Keep in mind that the Mindstrike missiles are Blast, not Large Blast though.

Thanks for that, I'll edit the correct profile in.

 

I like your Raven a fair Bit thanks to the ability to dish out 6 small blasts in one turn.

That would be with the Typhoon Missile Launcher yeah? Great way of putting a bit of hurt on a squad, backed up by another weapon from the 'Raven.

 

I haven't thought about much about weapon load out in general. The Mind strike missiles lend it more towards anti infantry but I imagine most GK generals will be taking the opportunity to add a rare Lascannon set or Multimelta into the ranks and we have plenty of small arms elsewhere.

[RedemptionNL]

Yeah, the GK Stormraven can equip loads of defensive weapons. With a TL Assault Cannon Turret, Typhoon Missile Launcher, Hurricane Bolter Sponsons and 4 Mindstrike missiles you'd be able to fly 12" and unleach everything in one infantry-devastating salvo of 6 S4 blasts, 6-12 TL S4 shots and 4 TL S6 shots.

 

Of course, it would also be very expensive and have loads of anti-infantry weapons in an army where you'd not exactly shy for anti-infantry weapons, but it would be funny to do it just to see the look on your opponent's face. :P

[christheodorou]

im having real difficultly deciding on either taking a Land raider or a stormraven for my Bloodangels army. Either way the transport is going to be carrying a 5 man assault terminator squad, but i really can decide on whats best

 

Im fielding a full jump pack force 2x ten man assualt squad and a 9 man deathe company with a recluisarch so a storm raven would fit in nicely with overall theme of a fast hard hitting force, but everything i have read points to a storm raven being an utter fire magnet, an oppenent seeing your lovely stormraven on the board, screaming and shooting at it till it dies, unless you can get the first turn that is. I wanted my transport to be able to destroy vehicles once its dropped its payload and the landraider or the stormraven can both forfill the hunter killer role. A stormraven is the sligtly cheaper option at 215pts with extra armour over the 250pts for a landraider, but at arnour 12 makes it quite fragile to incoming heavy weapons fire, (i know in my imperial guard army i field a lascannon heavy weapons platoon next to my command squad, order bring it down to twin linked the lascannons and thats one dead stromraven in my opinion. Having thought about it do i try and find 105pts from somewhere and include Brother Corbulo and his far seeing eye special rule giving me a reroll for the first turn? At least with tha landraider the all round armour of 14 means youve got a damn good chance of weathering the storm.

 

I just dont know lol!!

[Brother Xeones]

christheodorou:

I realize you are new here, (welcome to B&C :lol:) but if you want to discuss Blood Angels, you need to do so in the BA Subforum. This board is only for Grey Knights Discussion.

 

I know Grey Knights can get the SR too, but considering the Grey Knight SR has different weapon and wargear options that the BA one, and considering that they'll be carrying different units, you'll really get a better response you your questions over there anyway.

 

Edit: As to the OP, I'd say that a Vindicare is likely to be a far more reliable way for a Grey Knights force to eliminate enemy psykers. That being said, the SRs missiles could do nicely in a pinch.

 

I'm kind of surprised that you didn't discuss the best units to carry in your SR though.

For Sheer Deathstar CC killiness, I'd go with a full squad of Purifiers and a Termi HQ. If Falchions grant 2+ attacks, I'd say a Full squad with Falchions and a Termi Librarian with Quicksilver and MoT would be devastating.

Any sort of terminator model will benefit from transport in a SR. Regular troops terminators give scoring which is nice and, in most cases, I don't see paladins being much of an upgrade. Paladins in a Stormraven might be a legitimate way to get more wounds into a SR while dealing with the limited transport capacity.

[Red Lost Soldier]

Edit: As to the OP, I'd say that a Vindicare is likely to be a far more reliable way for a Grey Knights force to eliminate enemy psykers. That being said, the SRs missiles could do nicely in a pinch.

 

I'm kind of surprised that you didn't discuss the best units to carry in your SR though.

For Sheer Deathstar CC killiness, I'd go with a full squad of Purifiers and a Termi HQ. If Falchions grant 2+ attacks, I'd say a Full squad with Falchions and a Termi Librarian with Quicksilver and MoT would be devastating.

Any sort of terminator model will benefit from transport in a SR. Regular troops terminators give scoring which is nice and, in most cases, I don't see paladins being much of an upgrade. Paladins in a Stormraven might be a legitimate way to get more wounds into a SR while dealing with the limited transport capacity.

 

Yeah I kind of ran out of steam there at the end, hoping discussion would fill that up. Purifiers I think will be a popular choice to put inside as your hammer unit, and it provides a great spot for the frustrating TDA hero who can't fit into Rhinos that seem to be everywhere in GK armies now. Henchmen units of DCA/Crusader mix variety could be popular, though the lack of frag assault launchers will hurt if the enemy has bunkered down in cover.

 

Vindicares will be great at removing enemy psyker defences, however they need at least 2/3 turns to do so by themselves. Most psykers are 2/3 wounds with invulnerable saves, and 1 shot per turn isn't anywhere near as great as 4 PotW missiles in a single turn. SR's can also move to get the shots off, the Vindicare is static so can be avoided. I'd also wager the Vindicare is easier to silence, as while both are usually targets for the mass S8 market, the SR doesn't usually die to the first failed cover save, where as the Vindicare always dies to the first failed cover save.

 

I also forgot to mention a fast moving 12" bubble of Reinforced Aegis is a rather nice boon with the cheap Dreadnought in tow.

[Shyft]

Hmm, do Grey Knight Terminators/Paladins carry Frag Grenades? Or can they, at least?

[RedemptionNL]

Yes, all Grey Knight units except the Dreadknight and vehicles carry Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades, with some unit having the option for rad/blind/psychostroke grenades. Only some Inquisitorial units don't have grenades.

[Joasht]

I'm personally still up in the air about whether to try them out or not. The toss up is mainly between them and the LR for transportation purposes, as both fill similar roles; namely, an assault transport. Problem is both of them are prohibitively expensive in an army that has considerable access to Deep Strike (GKSS and all our Terminators, Summoning even on vehicles, etc with Servo Skulls, Teleport Homers and Mystics to make them more accurate) and the army is already pretty tiny prior. Not to mention that much like LRs, I personally feel that you need to saturate the board with many other armored vehicles to make it worthwhile; even though the random Deep Striking single Stormraven is a tempting idea, its also fairly risky (almost suicidal even). That means even MORE points spent on armor, which in turn converts to even less bodies on the table.

[yowsaman]

can you give scout to a stormraven with GM Special rule? and would that automaticly give the unit in it also scouting?

 

in that case.. deepstrik your whole army and let the stormraven come from scout move. that should give you some time for it to survive and take out key positions and armour you would like

 

no?

[Joasht]

can you give scout to a stormraven with GM Special rule? and would that automaticly give the unit in it also scouting?

 

in that case.. deepstrik your whole army and let the stormraven come from scout move. that should give you some time for it to survive and take out key positions and armour you would like

 

no?

 

GM cannot give scout to a stormraven, and seriously, having one AV 12 model on the table at the start of the game is a sure way to lose your Stormraven early on. Theres a ton of units out there that are mobile enough to move and shoot at an AV 12 model.

[yowsaman]

can you give scout to a stormraven with GM Special rule? and would that automaticly give the unit in it also scouting?

 

in that case.. deepstrik your whole army and let the stormraven come from scout move. that should give you some time for it to survive and take out key positions and armour you would like

 

no?

 

GM cannot give scout to a stormraven, and seriously, having one AV 12 model on the table at the start of the game is a sure way to lose your Stormraven early on. Theres a ton of units out there that are mobile enough to move and shoot at an AV 12 model.

 

 

hmmm ok....

[Red Lost Soldier]

I'm personally still up in the air about whether to try them out or not. The toss up is mainly between them and the LR for transportation purposes, as both fill similar roles; namely, an assault transport. Problem is both of them are prohibitively expensive in an army that has considerable access to Deep Strike (GKSS and all our Terminators, Summoning even on vehicles, etc with Servo Skulls, Teleport Homers and Mystics to make them more accurate) and the army is already pretty tiny prior. Not to mention that much like LRs, I personally feel that you need to saturate the board with many other armored vehicles to make it worthwhile; even though the random Deep Striking single Stormraven is a tempting idea, its also fairly risky (almost suicidal even). That means even MORE points spent on armor, which in turn converts to even less bodies on the table.

 

It is a huge investment of points, much like a Land Raider and Terminator combo in a more standard Astartes army. This is why I believe the entire list must be designed around them if you take even 1, in terms of including Psychic Communion so you have the option of reserving etc.

 

I don't think Deep Striking it will be viable, much like Deep Striking a LR, it is just too big. Besides it is fast enough to get where you need to be quickly anyway. Fly it in on 3+ on turn 2 if you need to hide it from enemy shooting turn 1.

[Battle-Captain]

I personally use mine kitted out with hurricane bolters the twin linked multi melta and twin linked assualt cannon. It's an absolutly awesome unit for anti infantry with all the bolter and assault cannon shots as well as the psyk out missiles, and with the power of the machine spirit you can take a pot shot at any armour with the twin linked multi meltas.

As for transporting units i use it to transfer my 10 man purifier unit lead by grand master it is a all eggs in one basket but when that unit hits it hits hard and with a unit like that running around chopping things to bits people soon forget the storm raven which will continue to provide fire support.

I really like the idea of fielding a librarian in it with shrouding to give it a 3+ cover save moving fast excellent idea :tu:

 

Battle captain

[Crynn]

RANT, you are welcome to ignore this.

 

"Am I the only one who thinks that this vehicle is a complete hunk of trash? There is a reason no one uses these in cometitive BA list and there is a reason it won't get used in competitive GK lists.

 

Now I have a very good success rate with my BA's and in some games I use a SR because I like the model. The only way this tissue box works is as a gunship. The note at the start of this article says 'remember it is a gunship too' should state 'remember it is a trasport too'. It cant do what a land raider does for being a death star transport because it is just too weak. It's only usefull role was with a 5 man assault squad without packs who used the discount to buy a transport for something else flying around the back field as an anti tank gunship using its alpha volley of long range missile to open up a tank first turn from beyond 95% of all weapons firing range. After this it just flys around popping tanks wear it can and being scoring thank to the assault squad.

 

The GK SR had Fortitude which is gret but it lost the best attribute about the SR the blood strike missiles for those absolutely useless and very situational PS missiles. useless against many opponents who dont have psychers or keep them in vehicles (eldar) or jsut the fact that you will mis with those missiles more than you will hit, it is garbage and seeing how people who play competitively express this by not using them it needs to be noted here as well.

 

Putting a dread in a SR is a poor idea in a BA army where your dreads are actually meant for CC. In a grey knights army what is the point? Your dreads predominantly shoot not assault so every turn you are embarked you don't fire and they have the same armour value as the raven so it is hardly for protection.

 

Holding a SR in reserve means that for on average 2 turns (this includes psychic comunion) you have 205 + cargo points not effecting the game. The effects of having that many points not affecting (destroying) enemy units for two turns is compounded each following turn.

 

 

ACTUAL TACTICAL ADVICE

 

So if you want to use a raven keep it cheap, very cheap, keep the unit inside it cheap as it will keep it a less impotant target on your enemies radar. Make sure you can provide it with some sort of cover, a librarian with shrouding increses its surviveability by 33% even when it is not moving. This is effectively helping you get the most from this unit from another unit you may already be taking in your list. Try to make sure that the raven isn't the only light to medium AV target on the board so that the enemy isn't just almost forced to shoot his only 2 lascannons at it. And do not out flank it. The board is big enough that you can place it in the corner of a board in pitched or Down of War and be out of range of even lascannons, Table quaters it can still be done if it is at the back of your army. Being out od range is as good as being off the board however you can choose when you want to 'come on' in effect, this is how I have always played mine.

 

Sorry for the rant however it does come from much experience with a relatively sub par unit trying to make it playable because I love the model.

 

I hope this helps someone.

 

Regards,

 

Crynn

[Joasht]

I'm inclined to agree with Crynn, being a huge fan of Land Speeders myself its not difficult to view it as an overglorified version. I still think its good to put something of good value in it though, maybe not fill it to the brim with a Paladin squad and a Dreadnought in tow, but at least something worth transporting. You are, after all, paying for its transport capacity.

[Red Lost Soldier]

Crynn, your opinions and advice are very welcome. Without someone opposing, debate goes no where and nothing much is learned.

 

With that said, I still have faith in the new bird. It took years for Tau players to accept the Piranha, now you never see competitve Tau armies without them.

 

The GK SR had Fortitude which is gret but it lost the best attribute about the SR the blood strike missiles for those absolutely useless and very situational PS missiles. useless against many opponents who dont have psychers or keep them in vehicles (eldar) or jsut the fact that you will mis with those missiles more than you will hit, it is garbage and seeing how people who play competitively express this by not using them it needs to be noted here as well.

I can't speak much for BA, but I don't think GK have had them long enough to have a robust field of data. I've only used one once so far, and it went really well for me, managed to pull off 2 charges in one turn. The MS missiles are still great for piling lots of wounds on infantry, pskyers or not. Managed to down 4 MEqs the turn I let them loose which can be a great equaliser when you need it to be.

 

Putting a dread in a SR is a poor idea in a BA army where your dreads are actually meant for CC. In a grey knights army what is the point? Your dreads predominantly shoot not assault so every turn you are embarked you don't fire and they have the same armour value as the raven so it is hardly for protection.

The 12" Reinforced Aegis buble will be very useful, albeit only in games with enemy pskyers. While our Dreadnoughts are not as combat capable as BA ones, they are still great for picking on units and holding them up also. For the GK also, I believe an addition MM or AC backfield can help out in the AT department.

 

Holding a SR in reserve means that for on average 2 turns (this includes psychic comunion) you have 205 + cargo points not effecting the game. The effects of having that many points not affecting (destroying) enemy units for two turns is compounded each following turn.

This is true, but even the mighty LR plus Terminator combo often only needs to get off one significant charge to affect the game. Is reserving Drop Pods any different? That mid game Sternguard coming in can wreck many plans. Playing with Bikes I've found sometimes having the threat of something is enough to affect the game, also not having to do full damage every turn, especially in mission based games. Even in annhilation it's not about killing everything, just more than your opponent.

 

So if you want to use a raven keep it cheap, very cheap, keep the unit inside it cheap as it will keep it a less impotant target on your enemies radar. Make sure you can provide it with some sort of cover, a librarian with shrouding increses its surviveability by 33% even when it is not moving. This is effectively helping you get the most from this unit from another unit you may already be taking in your list. Try to make sure that the raven isn't the only light to medium AV target on the board so that the enemy isn't just almost forced to shoot his only 2 lascannons at it. And do not out flank it. The board is big enough that you can place it in the corner of a board in pitched or Down of War and be out of range of even lascannons, Table quaters it can still be done if it is at the back of your army. Being out od range is as good as being off the board however you can choose when you want to 'come on' in effect, this is how I have always played mine.

I agree with all your points here. It's not going to be the best model, or the best build in the codex, but hopefully it can be strong and competitive. It won't even be easy to use.

 

I think the GK one brings more to us than to BA, if only for the ability to have fast moving infantry. You can take Interceptors sure, but we do not have flying troops (without lucky GM roll), flying dreadnoughts, fast tanks etc. that the BA have access to. Our speed options are much more limited. The summoning, deep striking and scouting all have their own advantages and certainly their own disadvantages.

[T3mpl@r Crusade]

I am curious about this then, since it's an assault vehicle, can you deploy and have the dready assault that turn? if you could, that could be alot of hurt dished out very quickly in an assault combined with a CC squad or whatever

[Something Wycked]

I am curious about this then, since it's an assault vehicle, can you deploy and have the dready assault that turn? if you could, that could be alot of hurt dished out very quickly in an assault combined with a CC squad or whatever

A Stormraven cannot deep strike and then have its passengers assault in the same turn, no. The SR rules are very clear on this.

[Red Lost Soldier]

If you deep strike the Stormraven, it counts as moving flat out that turn so you cannot disembark any units. I don't think deep striking it is going to be very useful for all the reasons you don't see deep striking LR's in a BA army.

 

You can however move 12", disembark 2", and charge 6" with both units that are embarked in the Stormraven.

[iamnothere]

You don't count as moving flat out when you DS, you count as moving at cruising speed - somthing to bear in mind when you place it in reserve.

 

The DS rules themselves prevent you assaulting the turn you DS.

 

I'm finding with a GMs communion to help choose which order you arrive in that the Raven with teleport homer is a nice option. Essentially I get to put all my pressure where I want it.

 

Admittedly this doesn't really work against an castleing opponent but it's still bags of fun.

[dublindawg]

I am looking at building an army around a pair of SR's. Each will have a combat squad of Termies, a Dreadnaught and a Libby. They will be held in reserve hoping for early arrival in the 2nd turn or 3rd turn at the latest. The ground forces will consist of 2 units of Purifiers in rhinos, Vindicare and a couple of GKSS's in razorbacks. This would give me a strong ground force moving up to lay down fire, a sniper picking off key targets at range and dropping cans of whop-@$$ on the flanks.