T3mpl@r Crusade Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I am curious about this then, since it's an assault vehicle, can you deploy and have the dready assault that turn? if you could, that could be alot of hurt dished out very quickly in an assault combined with a CC squad or whatever A Stormraven cannot deep strike and then have its passengers assault in the same turn, no. The SR rules are very clear on this. sorry, to clarify I didnt mean after a deep strike, but after a normal movement. Red Lost Soldier So essentially you can assault ramp a dreadnought? HA, that is awesome Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2717168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 If you've not seen a dual Blood Talon Dread assault form a Storm Raven yet, it's a sight to behold! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2717195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3mpl@r Crusade Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 sounds delicious, once I figure out what kind of list I want to run, I definently want to run something along those lines in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2717275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lost Soldier Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 iamnothere: Thanks for the correction. T3mpl@r Crusade: Yes, and this is something unique to the Stormraven. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2717987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lost Soldier Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 Played a 1000pt game on the weekend, using a Stormraven. Here is the list I used: Ordo Malleus Inquisitor, Psychic Communion, Force Sword, Hellrifle, Servo Skull 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors, 1 Jokaero Weaponsmith, 8 Warrior Acolytes Grey Knight Strike Squad (10), 2 Psycannons, Psybolt Ammunition, Master Crafted Nemesis Daemonhammer Grey Knight Terminator Squad (5), Nemesis Warding Stave, Nemesis Daemonhammer, 3 Nemesis Swords Grey Knight Stormraven, Twin Linked Multimelta, Twin Linked Lascannons Grey Knight Dreadnought, Multimelta Played Vs. 1000pt Tyranid list, which from what I recall included: Prime, Lash Whip/Bone Sword 3 Warriors, Lash Whip/ Bone Swords 10 Termaguants 18(?) Hormaguants, Poison Tervigon 6 Ymargl Genestealers 2 Hive Guard 2 Hive Guard Was a narrow win in the end, KP mission. Tyranid player went first, and spawned another 16(!) or so Termagants. I was swiftly becoming outnumbered and I knew I was most likely going to lose something to the Ymargls in the near future. I had my Terminators and my Dreadnought inside the Raven on my left flank. I moved it forward slightly to get in range for the Multimelta (this was my mistake as I didn't even quite make it anyway), and unloaded on the Tervigon, which was in cover. The lascannon missed (yes twice), but 3 out of 4 mindstrike missiles hit and cause 3 instant wounds. The Inquisitor unit opened up next, and the Tervigon went to ground after all 3 cannons, and a hellrifle hit and wounded. Unfortunately only did 2 wounds with 3+ cover so I had to use the Psycannons on my GKSS to finish it, which they only just did. The psychic backlash killed another 12 or so guants from both squads. The point of this truncated battle report was the 'Raven allowed me to kill that Tervigon first turn, plain and simple. It did half the work, and it took basically all the rest of my shooting (all 455pt worth of models!) to finish the job. That not only earned me the first kill point, it also neutered 2 squads of guants, kept that FNP spell that frustates bolter fire so, and lastly killed a Shadow in the Warp model, damn I hate that ability. It would have also given me a multi assault had I not been silly enough to try get the Multimelta in range. One Hive Guard unit managed to immobilise it, though the following turns the stuff inside still charged out and did really well, and I kept shooting the Warriors with the weapons but only killed one all game thanks to cover, but it did keep the unit back from my gunline. Food for thought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2720847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashc Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 How does a Stormraven compare to a Land Raider though? Similar roles, the Crusader can pack as much firepower. I'm considering a transport for DCAs with an Inquisitor, and at the moment the Frag Launchers on a Crusader win out over the speed of a stormraven (I think). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2723675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnothere Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Depends what you're putting in the transport. If they conme with frags as standard then go SR, if not then go crusader.. Having frags on our GKT makes a big difference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2723864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Templarius Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I wouldn't recommend using a SR against a heavy IG gunline though, it will get shot out of the air in a hurry. Manticore rocket launchers and exterminator leman russ's can reach out and touch it from across the board. You'd better be lucky with that cover save. Also, I didn't realize that when a skimmer came in off deep strike they count as have been moving at cruising speed. Would have been nice to know when I had 2 vendetta's slag my psyrifle dread on sunday. Also forgot to pop smoke on my LRs :lol: been a while since I played. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2724447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Its a good thing Hive Guard guns have a mere 24" range (I guess any further and that "no LOS" would become pretty OP), good to see the SR getting some use. I guess against some races the SR would be good - Orks come to mind immediately; rokkits are generally BS 2/3 and Klaws are going to have issues hitting a SR. Nids maybe, as some of their more popular guns (Zoans/Hive Guard) aren't too long-ranged. However, I'd be a little concerned about taking it in a situation where you don't know what you would be facing, just in case you run into a shooty army. Heck, even non-shooty armies with good shooting support (e.g. Long Fang ML spam, Psyfledreads, etc) would give you pause. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2724507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lost Soldier Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 Comparing a SR to a LR: They may have similar jobs, that is delivering a unit into enemy lines and providing fire support, but they do it in very different ways. A LR is slow, big, and difficult to kill without special weapons designed for the job. Problem is everyone has those special weapons. All of the Imperial factions and most Xenos have Melta, combined with even better Xenos ones such as Railguns or Lances. AV14 is not the behemoth it once was. Also LRs have two other big weaknesses, they can be immobilised when moving through terrain, and they can be blocked by any unit. A common tactic I use is merely to turbo boost a light skimmer right in front (1") of a LR. Now the LR can either shoot it, wasting all movement hoping to kill it. Other units can shoot it but the LR still has a chance to immoblise. It can go around, losing movement and often having to go through other terrain. Lastly it can ram, with low S and the skimmer can dodge and still block movement. A SR is fast, and can ignore terrain. It cannot be blocked by enemy units. It can fire one extra main gun in similar movement speeds to the LR. It can generate it's own cover save while still firing one of it's weapons. Lastly it can carry two units. It is however more vulnerable to long range weaponry, weaponry that nominally targets Rhinos/Chimeras/Equivalents. It also loses the Frag Assault Launchers, so if you are running DCA you may want to stick with the LRC/LRR as striking last with DCA is bad news. I don't have my rulebook on me, but if an enemy unit is engaged in combat with a different friendly unit, and you charge another friendly unit it, does the enemy unit get the benefits of cover from both units or just the initial one? Wondering if you could charge the Dreadnought from a SR in, the follow charge with the DCA. May have to wait a turn however. I think the Hive Guard guns have 24" for the same reason our Psycannons have 24" range, game balance. Against a shooty army, such as IG, you only really need one turn of movement then you are in their lines, and you cannot be blocked by a Chimera wall. With the Flat Out save, the SR has the ability to shrug of quite a few shots, even better if you bring a Librarian along for the ride. I have a double game this afternoon, 1500 GK + 1500 SoB vs 3000 Eldar, plan to bring the SR will see how that goes. I'm expecting some farseers so the mindstrike missiles have been prepared. This is my list: Inquisitor, Rad Grenades, Power Sword Grey Knight Terminators (5), Nemesis Warding Stave, Nemesis Daemonhammer, 3 Nemesis Force Halberds Grey Knight Strike Squad (10), 2 Psycannons, Master Crafter Nemesis Daemonhammer, Psybolt Ammunition, Rhino Grey Knight Strike Squad (10), 2 Psycannons, Master Crafter Nemesis Daemonhammer, Psybolt Ammunition, Rhino Stormraven Gunship, Typhoon Missile Launcher, Twin Linked Lascannon Grey Knight Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, Extra Armour Grey Knight Dreadnought, 2 Twin Linked Autocannons, Psybolt Ammunition Grey Knight Dreadnought, 2 Twin Linked Autocannons, Psybolt Ammunition 1500pt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2724874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lost Soldier Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Played 1500 GK + 1500 SoB vs 3000 Eldar last Friday. The Eldar player took two 1500pt armies to keep things fair in case he wanted more than 3 FOC choices like we had. I played the list below, but I didn't have a combat dreadnought so swapped it for a Vindicare by dropping master crafting. SoB list looked something like this: 2 Exorcist Retributers with Heavy Bolters Seraphim with flamers Canoness 2 SoB squads, 1 Rhino, 1 larger squad on foot. 1 plasma IST squad with Chimera Inquisitor Lord with Hood, Gunline Squad and Chimera. Played a objective based game, 6 objectives on the board which are numbered, however it was rolled at the start of turn 2, 4, and 5 to see which objectives actually counted. Stormraven managed to kill 5 harlequins and get 3 perils tests on a Farseer with it's MS missiles, killed a Wave Serpent with Typhoon + Lascannon, delivered Terminators into a building filled with Eldar (who killed 3 squads then died), and zoomed into the other corner of the board to clear Jetbikes and claim the last objective with the remnants of a GKSS after its Rhino immobilised itself. Was quite happy with the performance. A lot of enemy tank fire was going into my allies Exorcists to be fair though, but the AV12 all round did ping some fire off, and the rear armour boost was invaluable against combat troops. Vindicare just got shot off the board. Aegis doesn't do anything against Eldar with Runes, reinforced would have helped in several Doom tests though. Strike Squads with Psybolts ruin a T3 armies day. I checked my rulebook later, the enemy has to be locked in combat from a previous turn in order for cover to be negated. So if you are looking at a transport for DCA, the frag assault launchers are probably going to swing the LRC/LRR in favour over the SR. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2727986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Templarius Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Way better than my SR usually does. It is very often shot down on the first turn it is on the board by a manticore or vanquisher :( Depends a lot on who you're fighting I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2728046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lost Soldier Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 I don't play IG almost ever, which perhaps alters my perceptions of the model. I do fight other firepower armies though. Have you tried keeping the SR in reserve and perhaps also using Psychic Communion? The cover save will help immensely against the Vanquisher, which suffers from the same problem as the Tau railguns, being only 1 good shot. Similar with the Manticore, even against a model as big as the SR, you should only be getting 1 to 2 hits on it. You only need 1 turn of movement to get into enemy lines. Lastly armour saturation is the key. There needs to be other options for anti tank fire to take the heat of the SR. Rhinos filled with GK near his lines, Dreadnoughts killing his Chimeras etc. Make the choice hard. On the positive side, if you ever come up against a Psyker Battle Squad, let a few MS missiles fly and watch the hilarity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2729120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Templarius Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Funny thing, first move coming in off reserve, I failed my flat-out save and got knocked out of the sky by a manticore :) Its still just a 4+, unless I have a libby inside, then I guess I could get a 3+... but still, you'd think the 2 landraiders, 2 rhinos, and the dreadknight would have proven enticing as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2729298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lost Soldier Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Bugger. It's going to suffer against some armies. Did the guys inside make it to enemy lines and actually do anything? I've had a few shot down, sometimes the Terminators make themselves known even without their ride. Need to find the points for a Psycannon for them. No vehicle is going to survive if your enemy dedicates enough weapons on it, suppose just have to make it harder to do and hope enough shots get sucked up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2730453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDunc Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Thoughts on deep striking the SR? Obviously you wouldn't get a cover save but you'd be able to fire all available weaponry, including Hurricane Bolters, if added. Also, occupants could dismount and do the same. Depending on weaponry, and assuming two SRs dropped the same turn, you could effect a fair number of enemy units and/or vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2730513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl00d bath76 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 A list im planning on using (waiting for models to arrive) at 1,500 using a stormraven. Mordrak =400 ghost terminators x5 halberd x4 sword x1 Inquisitor (xenos) =85 psychic communion rad grenades psychostroke grenades Death cult assasin x6 =136 crusader x2 warrior x4 Dreadnought =130 Multi-melta incinerator (heavy flamer with psy ammo) Stormraven =205 twinlinked multimelta twinlinked lasacannon Grey knights x5 =190 razorback w las/plas Grey knights x5 =165 master crafted deamonhammer razorback w psybolts (HB) Purifiers x5 =189 master crafted deamonhammer halberd x4 razorback w psybolts (HB) + searchlight total=1,500 points. As you can see i have 2 psychic communion's on the table to give me that 2+ second turn. However the main reason i have included a stormraven is to help me react to what is happening on the board. It can threaten any unit not within 12 of their board edge with a twin-linked mutlimelta shot and can get pretty much anywhere to help out my advancing razorbacks. Moreover i think the perfect unit to put in it are death cult assasins as grey knights are just too expensive for this role. The unit im putting is only 138 point yet can deal a lot of hurt. The cheep dread i think is also essential as it alows me to get that multi-melta in range, flame any units camping in cover and most importantly speed bump units that cannot hurt it. It also brings more armour to the table which has to be delt with. Just my thought on the use of the stormraven Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2730588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lost Soldier Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 BigDunc: Problem I see with Deep Striking is twofold: The model is so huge that mishaps are almost guaranteed if you scatter far, or even a little scatter takes you into (dangerous) terrain. Also the 'Raven itself is so fast where can you not be in one turn of movement, and get a cover save to boot? Coming on from reserve means almost half the board is within charge range of the contents, deep striking means you still shoot, but that's only half the store where GK's are concerned. Also I don't have much experience with deep striking so it makes me nervous. Could catch people unawares bl00d bath76: Interesting list. I take it the Inquisitor comes in with Mordrack? Biggest thing that jumps at me is scoring units, only 2 5 man GKSS? Forces you to use GS to make the Purifiers and Dreadnought scoring, and that only brings you to 15 scoring bodies and 1 vehicle even if the Dreadnought counts. The other issue with using the SR for Inquisitorial warbands is the lack of frag grenade launchers, you really cannot afford to be striking last with DCA. Over 50% of your list consists of Mordrack and buddies, plus the SR. It's viable, you'll have to play really tight with such a small force however. I like the idea of the Incinerator Dreadnought though, will look into that for myself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2730816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Templarius Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Bugger. It's going to suffer against some armies. Did the guys inside make it to enemy lines and actually do anything? I've had a few shot down, sometimes the Terminators make themselves known even without their ride. Need to find the points for a Psycannon for them. Oh yea, my landraiders made it and deployed their cargo, although they managed to get themselves immobilized that turn because I totally forgot to pop smoke. In the next game I scouted my Dreadknight and got into assault first turn (on spearhead deployment), and my landraiders rolled up into his backfield after my psyrifle dread had popped all his transports. Guardsmen go down pretty fast to incinerators it turns out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2730907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordsloth Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Coming on from reserve means almost half the board is within charge range of the contents Isnt their charge range from the edge of the board the same as a land raider? Landraiders can go 12inch and assault. If memory serves (and it might not) stormravens are going flatout above 12 inches which means that the dudes inside must deploy via deepstrike somewhere along the stormravens path (and thus cannot assault). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2730927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galadren Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I honestly count on the Stormraven to die. My current plan is a GM + Librarian + 4 Paladins + Dreadnought in it. Yes, that is close to half of my army, but it hurts. Cast Shrouding and move flat out turn 1, hopefully Machine Spirit the Multimelta into something expensive. At this point I should be on my opponents lines. Even if it gets blown up I now have IC's, Paladins, and a Dreadnought in their face. The SR's primary job is deliver it's payload. After that it can die. I treat Land Raiders the same way. Being the biggest target on the board it is always the first thing my opponents destroy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2731053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lost Soldier Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 lordsloth: Yes it is almost the same. 12" move, 2" disembark (plus size of base) and 6" charge. Almost 20". The advantages of the SR is that it can ignore terrain (the LR is a big model and terrain is prevalent), get two units into combat with two different enemies, fire 2 main weapons at full speed at two different targets if you please, plus all it's defensive MS missiles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2731068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Here are some tactical articles I wrote on using the Stormraven: http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com/search/label/Stormraven They were intended for BA but I think a lot is still relevant to this codex as well. G :sweat: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2731079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDunc Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Deep striking would be a more offensive approach to deploying the SR. Though you can reach any point on your half of the board by going flat out, you can only do so with one weapon per SR. A deep striking SR can fire everything, to include MS missiles and hurricane bolters. On top of that, a Dread and a unit can deploy from inside and add to the firepower. You give up the flat out cover save, but by deep striking you're giving yourself the opportunity to take out 3 vehicles and 1 infantry unit before your opponent can counter this firepower. Mishap'ing with a full SR would suck, so you have to place pre-scatter somewhere safer than you would a landspeeder. The dread counters this safer drop by being able to place almost 6" closer to a target. For a multi-melta that could mean a nice melta ranged shot. Psycannons don't care about range in this situation, but now you're more likely to get side armor shots. Shoot the SR last at some kind of armor and unload with every anti-infantry weapon it has. It's not without its risks but it seems like a viable tactic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2731659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sirrion Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I'm trying to figure out how to arm the thing. I want the Typhoon launcher and hurican bolters, but I'm torn between the lascannons and the plasma cannons. What do you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225392-flight-of-the-stormraven/page/2/#findComment-2743261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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