Terminators and the Current FNP Wisdom

[snake_x]

I was thinking about Terminators (deathwing) and FNP via an apothecary. The current wisdom is to set up an all TH/SS unit and put the apothecary here. This makes the unit very difficult to kill via regular small arms fire and provides the 3++ for anti termie and anti-FNP weaponry.

 

However, you shouldn't really be throwing terminators against anything with that kind of weaponry anyway, particularly in combat where the THs leave them with initiative 1.

 

So what about putting FNP on an all TLC squad? If you're using termies to roll up the majority of an enemy's line in combat and sticking to shooting the scarier CC units, I think this has some merit. The claws give you extra attacks, let you keep the initiative, and the FNP here provides survivability against the type of troop you should be wiping up.

 

I think this would be dangerous in a footslogging army where a lot of anti-termy fire would take advantage of the lack of SS and the ineffectiveness of FNP vs AP 1/2 weaponry.

 

Other criticisms?

[greatcrusade08]

take belial and a command squad with all TLC with a banner and apothecary and watch anything it touches disintegrate ;)

[Brother Captain Ed]

I think you're approaching it in a vacuum. Remember the enemy gets a vote too. The reason conventional wisdom says put FNP with TH/SS is because it practically forces the opponent to use his valuable AP 1 & 2 fire against a 3++ save if he wants to remove those termies since the effectiveness of volume of small arms fire drops dramatically. TLCs are still terminators so you've still got 2+/5++, but the effectiveness of your AP 1 & 2 weapons rises greatly since you go from 66% to save to only 33%. Since FNP won't help against that, it's going to do very little for you on TLCs.

 

Now, if you can protect them and use them has a bully unit and not a rock, you'll get a fair amount of mileage there but, even then, I think 2+ is probably adequate in that role (a la honor guard).

 

EDIT: Missed the part about the foot slooging. Yes, absolutely, you nailed it. But, honestly, it's gonna be danger in most cases and anything that can really hurt you in CC is gonna do it with a power weapon anyway.

[snake_x]

I think you're approaching it in a vacuum. Remember the enemy gets a vote too. The reason conventional wisdom says put FNP with TH/SS is because it practically forces the opponent to use his valuable AP 1 & 2 fire against a 3++ save if he wants to remove those termies since the effectiveness of volume of small arms fire drops dramatically. TLCs are still terminators so you've still got 2+/5++, but the effectiveness of your AP 1 & 2 weapons rises greatly since you go from 66% to save to only 33%. Since FNP won't help against that, it's going to do very little for you on TLCs.

 

Now, if you can protect them and use them has a bully unit and not a rock, you'll get a fair amount of mileage there but, even then, I think 2+ is probably adequate in that role (a la honor guard).

 

EDIT: Missed the part about the foot slooging. Yes, absolutely, you nailed it. But, honestly, it's gonna be danger in most cases and anything that can really hurt you in CC is gonna do it with a power weapon anyway.

 

So in what cases would you advocate TLCs? How would you recommend protecting them to get some actual use out of them if you try to use a TLC squad as a "bully" unit?

[DarkGuard]

I think you're approaching it in a vacuum. Remember the enemy gets a vote too. The reason conventional wisdom says put FNP with TH/SS is because it practically forces the opponent to use his valuable AP 1 & 2 fire against a 3++ save if he wants to remove those termies since the effectiveness of volume of small arms fire drops dramatically. TLCs are still terminators so you've still got 2+/5++, but the effectiveness of your AP 1 & 2 weapons rises greatly since you go from 66% to save to only 33%. Since FNP won't help against that, it's going to do very little for you on TLCs.

 

Now, if you can protect them and use them has a bully unit and not a rock, you'll get a fair amount of mileage there but, even then, I think 2+ is probably adequate in that role (a la honor guard).

 

EDIT: Missed the part about the foot slooging. Yes, absolutely, you nailed it. But, honestly, it's gonna be danger in most cases and anything that can really hurt you in CC is gonna do it with a power weapon anyway.

 

So in what cases would you advocate TLCs? How would you recommend protecting them to get some actual use out of them if you try to use a TLC squad as a "bully" unit?

 

Generally I'd imagine the best way to do this is through the use of a Land Raider Crusader. Perfect for taking out those scoring units in cover and weak firebase units. Let the TH/SS units take out the MCs.

 

I do believe that an Apoc here would be useful, in that TLCs are fantastic for taking out hordes. Big unit of Ork Boyz? Yup, they're gone. Huge Gaunt unit? No problem. However, these units excel at generating a lot of armour saves. Now in this situation your invulnerable save is not going to make a blind but of difference, but against a multitude of attacks FnP will be fantastic, especially when you've only got a 5 man squad.

 

That being said, an Apoc can also be fantastic in an Hammernator squad in that it will drastically increase their survivability, therefore meaning that they become very hard to shift.

[Brother Captain Ed]

I'd mix and match. Put two or three TLCs in a squad with some hammernators. The squad can now take a couple low AP shots a turn (assuming probable saves), hit hard at initiative, and threaten vehicles and MCs. Make sure they have a CML to hit hard at range before charging. You now have a rock...with spikes. Much more versatile and dangerous than just a bully unit.

 

And yes, if your termies wade into orc or tyranid hordes, FNP will give you some mileage. No question. You just gotta get them there. And that will make them harder to use since it narrows your list of targets and relies on you putting it where it needs to be when Deathwing likes multiple, redundant "Face toward enemy" rocks to dismantle the opponent one unit at a time.

 

I'd give my left nut to have assault termies with CMLs in my codex. :D