Playing a Ravenwing list

[Slim]

I have been thinking about trying out a pure Ravenwing list, having played mixtures of different Dark Angel set-ups including pure Deathwing - but never going with just the 2nd Company. It wouldn't be in a tournament - and strictly just for fun with friends. That said, I still wouldn't want to get whipped by my opponents! We usually play about 1750 points so there is plenty of room for scope with what I take but I have one problem that I hope you can help with...

 

It's bikes. I have tried bikes on a few occasions but they seem to be little more than Terminator homing beacons who then die surprisingly quickly. I am sure it is something I am doing wrong when I use them, but they seem to be the equivalent of regular marines who just move into combat and thereby die quicker (be it from shooting or - gulp - close combat). So I wondered if anyone could offer me a couple of tips for how to get the best out of a Ravenwing list and maybe even some pointers as to what models to take...

 

Cheers.

[gazmac]

at 1500 pts you can take 4 teams (of 5) and 2 speeders, you need cover and for survival have an apothacary

[Xyon]

Well, you can turbo boost for your scout moves, so you can get your attack bike melta up close and personal on turn 1 to blow up any heavy tank support or transports you may be worried about. Use terrain to get cover saves on your speeders. Learn what 18", 24", and 36" look like on the table. 36" is move + bolter range. 24" is move + rapid fire range. 18" is move + assault range. Consintrate fire on priority targets, use your mobility to stay out of combat until you want to be in it, and when you get into it try to have overwhelming odds. The mantra we had for RW back in 3rd edition was "dakka, dakka, and more dakka" use your twin linked boltguns to good effect.

 

How many points do you run at for friendly games? 190 points gets you 3 bikes, 2 melta guns, and 1 attack bike with a multi melta. I would say 2 of those squads would be good for handling your up close anti tank, plus any other attack bikes from your other bike squads which should hang back for long range fire support while your attack bikes, tyhpoon/melta speeders, and 2 suicide bike squads take care of all the tanks on the board. So 2 of those 3 bike 1 attack bike squads, plus 3 typhoon speeders is only 605 points, leaving you enough left over for sammy and some full sized bike squads, and any more attack bikes and/or attached Tornado speeders you may want.

[Jehoel]

Well, you can turbo boost for your scout moves, so you can get your attack bike melta up close and personal on turn 1 to blow up any heavy tank support or transports you may be worried about.

 

Sorry, you can't Turbo-Boost during the Scout move with Ravenwing. The current FAQ killed that.

[Xyon]

The current 40k rulebook faq, page 5, second column, has the following question.

 

Q: Can bikes Turbo Boost during their scout move? (P.76)

A: Yes they now can, but remember that they have to remain more than 12" away from the enemy as they move.

 

 

None of the FAQ questions in the current Dark Angels Codex FAQ (the one that updates our stormshields and such) ask about turbo boosting, so there is nothing stopping our Ravenwing from turbo boosting in their scout move, unless there is a FAQ question I am missing somewhere?

[he_plays_guitar]

On page 27 of the Dark Angels codex it says: Note that no model may make a Turbo Boost move whilst using the Scouts Special Rule.

[Jehoel]

On page 27 of the Dark Angels codex it says: Note that no model may make a Turbo Boost move whilst using the Scouts Special Rule.

 

I thought I remembered it from the FAQ, but that must be what I was remembering.

[Xyon]

Ahh, i see it now, well then that has nothing to do with the FAQ not allowing it. Sounds like we have something else to petition GW for. Oh well, scratch part of my advice, but most of it still stands. Use scout to get out of LOS if you're going second, or to get in better firing position if you're going first.

[Paeniteo Angelus]

at 1500 pts you can take 4 teams (of 5) and 2 speeders, you need cover and for survival have an apothacary

 

Please remember for the next time you see this come up, the ravenwing runs in 3 man or 6 man units, never 5, with attack bikes that always are bought with the bikers, but run in a seperate unit.

 

As per the original post I woud have to agree with Xyon that about 2 suicider units can take the tank. Also I personnally find that if the enemy is using alot of heavy firepower to take you out you can always combo your speed to get out of sight and then charge if its something that you are GARUNTEED to kill in one round of combat, or silence without dying. One example of this is our "pseudo infiltrate" in that you can set up, and then scout away if it looks too rough. ;)

 

Oh, and before I forget, if the name of the game is capturing points, and you happen to bring some speeders attached to the attack squadrons, well, then they do count as scoring as the codex clearly states that they do, and we all know that codex trumps core 99% of the time! To be more specific this can be found on page 27, bottom right hand corner (Ravenwing Combat Squads), 2nd paragraph. :huh:

[Ozybonza]

at 1500 pts you can take 4 teams (of 5) and 2 speeders, you need cover and for survival have an apothacary

 

Please remember for the next time you see this come up, the ravenwing runs in 3 man or 6 man units, never 5, with attack bikes that always are bought with the bikers, but run in a seperate unit.

 

As per the original post I woud have to agree with Xyon that about 2 suicider units can take the tank. Also I personnally find that if the enemy is using alot of heavy firepower to take you out you can always combo your speed to get out of sight and then charge if its something that you are GARUNTEED to kill in one round of combat, or silence without dying. One example of this is our "pseudo infiltrate" in that you can set up, and then scout away if it looks too rough. ;)

 

Oh, and before I forget, if the name of the game is capturing points, and you happen to bring some speeders attached to the attack squadrons, well, then they do count as scoring as the codex clearly states that they do, and we all know that codex trumps core 99% of the time! To be more specific this can be found on page 27, bottom right hand corner (Ravenwing Combat Squads), 2nd paragraph. :huh:

 

Basically, I play it this way - either Landspeeders ARE scoring and bikes CAN'T turbo boost in scout move (this is strict RAW) or alternatively bikes CAN turbo boost and speeders can't score (this is fairly logical RAI). Either way is fairly balanced - either you go by the letter of the codex, or you apply reasonable logic.

[breng77]

If I were going to make a 1750 list that was pure RW at this point it would look something like this.

 

Sammi (on Speeder or bike to preference)

 

6 Man RW attack squad (banner, Apoth, 2 Plasma guns, Powerfist on sarge)

Attackbike with Multi melta

 

3 x 3 Man RW attack squad (2 meltaguns, melt-bombs on sarge) all with MM Attack bikes

 

2x 3 Man RW attack squad (2 flamers, melta-bombs on sarge with MM attack bikes

 

3 x Typhoon + HB landspeeder

 

Make sure to wound allocate all your RW squads (i.e. give one special weapon guy a chainsword instead of a bolt pistol, so each 3 man squad is 3 separate groups for wound allocation. For the 6 man squad, go Sarge/Power fist, Plasma gun/bolt pistol, Chainsword/plasma gun, apoth, banner, regular guy, or you could stack the apoth and/or banner on the plasma gunners if you want more ablative wounds, the issue then is an overheat with failed save costs you a lot.)

[Tanhausen]

Why HB and not MM on the Typhoons?

 

I mean, you do have 6 MM on the AB but still...do you think the HB function blends with the Typhoon?

[Slim]

Thanks for the tips - some good insights here... Although I am going to have to go and buy another Typhoon Speeder :)

[incarnus]

Why HB and not MM on the Typhoons?

 

I mean, you do have 6 MM on the AB but still...do you think the HB function blends with the Typhoon?

 

HB works well with frag missiles which can be fired defensively.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Not to mention the MM only works well within 12" and ideally the typhoon will want to use the full 48" of the ML range to be out of harms way (small arms fire, CC attacks)

[Tanhausen]

Not to mention the MM only works well within 12" and ideally the typhoon will want to use the full 48" of the ML range to be out of harms way (small arms fire, CC attacks)

 

I disagree: MM obviously gets the 2d6 at 30cm, but you can play him perfectly at 50-60cm with its S8 AP1 and put out punishment without fear of getting assaulted.

 

In a RW build, you shoud have at least 2-4 MM AB and probably 1-2 3 bikers double melta... which should be the ones hunting for the AV14 with the 2d6.

 

I use the LS to either catch the side of the vehicles (usually 11) or the rear (10)... and 2 ML + 1 MM at 60cm, which means 1.3 glancing hits vs AV 11 that usually means at least DM/DS.

 

As for the HB... I hadn't thought that the frag ML were S4 so they were considered defensive, thanks :ermm:

[Mentat]

I keep my speeders back and use the multi-melta to fire at 24", you should be able to stay out of assault range, and the speeder mult-melta can really hurt transports with S8 AP1. They can rush up mid field and get the AV14 armor when they need to, AV14 armor always seems to be rushing towards me when I see it anyway. When you hit the land raider or whatever, you should have another unit ready to assault or shoot up the occupants, so as to present multiple threats to your opponent (either get the land speeders or the other unit but not both).

 

Lately I've been using 3 typhoon/MM speeders and they can move 6" and fire 2 missiles and the MM at transports out to 24", which is nice. You can turbo boost the speeders to get into a position where your opponent has to waste movement and/or shooting to deal with them and take pressure off the rest of your army.

 

Remember if you can't avoid the potential of being assaulted for some reason (opponent has good coverage or you're doing a suicide run), move 12". I played in a tournament last week (3rd company with 3 speeders and 2 DWT squads) and lost 2 speeders in the 1st game, 1 in the 2nd game, and 1 in the 3rd game. They can be more survivable then you would expect. I can't wait to get my Ravenwing put together, I have 13 speeders so far.

[Tanhausen]

Shooting with your LS at a LR should be an ultima ratio.

 

You have a chance something like 10% of glancing with 2 ML+1MM (I'm not doing the 2d6 math)...which is IMO not worth it, and certainly makes no common sense (only in desperate situations) to throw your LS close enough so the terminators inside get to assault you next turn.

 

For AV, I'd say go for double melta 3 bikers, MM AB or meltabombs with the bikers... something cheapish that you can assume will get crushed next turn.

[EPK]

I agree with Tanhausen on using the LS Typhoon for picking off lower AV with superior maneuvering from afar (but I don't actually run a RW list so they are supporting the rest of my mutli wing list in that capacity).

 

In my multiwing list I noticed that the LS are sometimes put on the back burner as far as target priority goes for my opponent. Now with a giant Land Raider rumbling towards them, I can see why this happens, but in a RW list, I feel like the LS may actually look like good targets. Either way, they are playing a beneficial role compared to the cost - going unnoticed to cause some damage or drawing fire away from other units and hopefully using cover and speed to their advantage.

 

AV14 is tough no matter how you slice it and I don't think the MM speeder would be my first choice to tackle it. However, perhaps running two LS in concert if the need arises to take out LRs and such is a good idea - if you can get within that 12 inch range your odds are greatly increased and whatever piles out will only be downing one of the Land Speeders if they go after them. Given good enough odds I would sacrifice a 75 pt. Land Speeder for a 250 pt. Land Raider any day.

[Xyon]

You could always get a squad of 2 regular speeders each with a MM, not ideal but still handy.

[breng77]

As stated above I go with the HB so that I can move 12" and fire everything if I fire Frag, I like to keep my speeders moving.

 

Also the list I posted already has 12 Melta weapons, and while more cannot hurt, I prefer to have the extra anti infantry fire power, and range (speeders live a lot longer when they are more than 24" away from the opponent, as they avoid weapons like plasma, melta, and even bolter fire which can hurt them.)

I think this choice depends on your list, in a DW list I would opt for the melta as you have little else to deal with tanks, in this list, I have plenty that can do that already, if anything I would change out the plasma squad for more melta if I wanted to get more melta on the table, but if you run into nids, or orks, those extra shots help. Also S5 is not completely useless against AV 10 and 11, so you can still shoot the HB at vehicles if you only move 6" (I don't do this often, but it can help.)

[Tanhausen]

Makes sense in a pure RW :lol:

 

Maybe when I grow out of my 11 crutches and become a man :P

[Ash]

You can use the infiltrate/scout/outflank a lot to your advantage. If you don't get first roll reserve almost every bike to maximise the numbers rolling as reserves on infiltrate.

Infiltrate has the advantage of forcing your opponent to clump armour in the middle of the board or it gets melta'd from the board edge, you have a 66% percent chance of coming in on the side of the board you want.

This allows you to place objectives/bases to your advantage in 2 of 3 scenarios. I always hold back reserve/infiltrate for this reason or for last minute objective grabs.

[breng77]

I advise being very careful with outflanking everything in your army. Many opponents will not place toward the center (not smart ones anyway), they will instead try to block one board edge , and make you either die when you cannot enter play, or come all the way across the table otherwise. Armies like Tau, and Guard can do this very easily, and also can make use of the turns of shooting before you are in range to be much of a threat.

[Mentat]

Shooting with your LS at a LR should be an ultima ratio.

 

You have a chance something like 10% of glancing with 2 ML+1MM (I'm not doing the 2d6 math)...which is IMO not worth it, and certainly makes no common sense (only in desperate situations) to throw your LS close enough so the terminators inside get to assault you next turn.

 

For AV, I'd say go for double melta 3 bikers, MM AB or meltabombs with the bikers... something cheapish that you can assume will get crushed next turn.

 

I wouldn't bother to answer, except you said i makes no common sense to use one of the most point-efficient units out there for killing a land raider.

 

First, I wouldn't fire the missiles, but only the melta since I would be moving 12". And I would be using 2 speeders if possible, maybe even 3.

 

A BS4 multi-melta within 12", its almost a 50% chance of a glance, and almost a 40% chance of a pen. Anything I roll on a pen except for a 2 will be useful since it will stop the raider from moving next turn, which is what i want. The terminators will likely get only one pen against the speeder, and one glance. So they might waste a turn attacking it and not finish it off anyway.

 

If the raider is "mid-field" then that means it will be delivering its cargo to its target of choice next turn. I would rather have a 200-something point unit of terminators kill a 75 point speeder and be out of position (and be vulnerable to a counter charge) than plow into one of my important units.

 

But I don't play pure Ravenwing (yet), and I don't fight against raiders much... nobody uses them because they are too vulnerable to melta. You are right, the attack bike is a better sacrifice at 50 points, if you have bikers. But I like the speeders due to their versatility and cheap cost (I dont have to pay for bikes to get them). Like I said they can stay at long range using their missiles, then if I need them, I have a fast moving melta platform.