So Close

[Nrthstar]

So the Grey Knight codex is out and about at stores for people to check out, so my friend photocopied one and used his old GK models and proxied in the rest. These are some nasty buggers. EVERYone has power weapons, and the halbred option gives you the ability to bump the initiative up to 7. My grey hunters never stood a chance in close combat.

 

I came prepared to face off against some Nids at 800, but things got mixed up at his job, so I played a 3 way instead and made an army list on the spot, so it's not as consistent as I generally like.

 

GH x8 (Plasma, Banner)

Rune Priest with MoR

Wolf Guard Battle leader with power weapon (odd combination with 2 HQs, but I had 90 points left I needed to fill fast

In a Rhino

 

GH x10

Drop Pod

2 Melta

1 PF

Banner

MotW

 

Lone Wolf

TDA

SS/TH

2 wolves

 

Long Fangs x5 +Squad Leader

3ML

2PC

 

Thunderwolf Lord

SS/Frost Axe

 

TWC x2

SS/TH

Melta bombs

 

I started to type out a battle report, but this game ran rather long and I can't remember the order of things properly. That and it just seems rather droll to type it all out. Basically, my RP and my Long Fangs were the highlight of the show. I had my LF in tall building right from the start with great shots up and down the board. My RP with a GH squad in a rhino kept things clear with TW and LL anything in site, taking out Termies and GK alike. The game ended with a tie of 5-5-4 killpoints. My drop pod GH squad did it's duty by taking out a rhino, but was immediately destroyed in CC by the squad of PA GKs inside. I7 S5 power armored Grey Knights are burtal. There's no hope of close combat with these boys without massive numbers, or some serious softening up from fire first. They did buy my LF the time they needed to blow away his termie squad, 2 rhinos and some PA blokes, but it's sad to see 180 points of screeners die without even striking back in cc. My banner wasn't even of use since I didn't get any armor saves. My all comers army just doesn't work against a threat like that. Melee is the last thing I want to do unless I can get in with some invulnerable saves. My Lone wolf at least tarpitted them for a couple of turns, buying me time to get Plasma/LL and LF ML/PC shots in. After my various defeats by Blood angels and now this new GK codex, I'm starting to get worried for the future.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention the Assassin in the bunker. This guy's ability to blow apart shields, give vehicles a 4d6 amor penetration shot and pick his targets inside of units is no bueno. If I hadn't put a huge focus on him right off the start, he would have picked my boys apart.

[MaveriK]

would you suggest more than one Long Fang pack against these guys or would you have rather gone with some heavy tanks? how did your 2 plasma cannon's Long Fangs do? would you have more of them if you had the points? or would you focus more on having more Long Fangs with missile launchers? I think our Rune Priest, murderous hurricane, tempest's wrath and or living lightning will do wonders against these guys. Thanks for the battle rep, helps put things in perspective! that assassin sounds pretty nasty too!

[MalachiOfRuss]

After flipping through the GK codex, I think SW keys to beating them will be:

 

LOTS of Plasma and Melta (but preferably Plasma, you need all the shots you can get) on the GH

Plasma Cannons may need to make a comeback on LF

MH on our RP - ANYTHING to slow these guys down from getting into melee

Outflanking Scouts to assassinate the assassin (Vindi's will be nasty)

[skoll]

that is so entirely failtacular (not your report good job holding them pox ridden GK at bay), my favorite tactic is melee combat but how can i deal with I7 power weapon attacks :'( oh well hoping not many GK hit the scene round mah area.

[Stormshrug]

that is so entirely failtacular (not your report good job holding them pox ridden GK at bay), my favorite tactic is melee combat but how can i deal with I7 power weapon attacks :'( oh well hoping not many GK hit the scene round mah area.

 

Yeah, you're going to have to use our codex's flexibility for this matchup.

 

Then again, there are plenty of lists (certain CC-heavy BA and Tyranids, Chaos Daemons) that already demand this, so it's not that big of a deal if there's one more.

 

-Stormshrug

[Nrthstar]

would you suggest more than one Long Fang pack against these guys or would you have rather gone with some heavy tanks? how did your 2 plasma cannon's Long Fangs do? would you have more of them if you had the points? or would you focus more on having more Long Fangs with missile launchers? I think our Rune Priest, murderous hurricane, tempest's wrath and or living lightning will do wonders against these guys. Thanks for the battle rep, helps put things in perspective! that assassin sounds pretty nasty too!

 

 

I'm definitely taking a second long fang squad next time. The GK shooting threat, at least his army, was very limited. With RP's keeping TW up to keep deep strikers out, I didn't have to worry about his short range. Plasma cannons were extremely effective against them, I lit up three of his 6 termies with 1 shot and picked off the remainders with LL and krak missles. I only looked at the codex for a second in a bit of mixed disgust/surprise after he rattled off the 5th special rule (like their version of a dev squad doesn't need line of sight to fire since their psychers, but we do get a cover save when he does this at least). This army in particular didn't have much in the way of anti vehicle, but I don't doubt that the rifle dreads have a better chance of picking them apart. I personally am too broke to buy more rhinos, so I only have the one now, but staying in your vehicle/bringing more heavy tanks would be great, but personally, having a squad of 5 LF gave me the selective fire I needed to pick apart squads that were encroaching on my line.

 

My GH melta guns felt like I was baiting myself into a trap. I did destroy his rhino, but at the same time, if you're grey hunters are close enough for some of the falchion equipped bastards to assault you, then you can kiss that squad goodbye. I actually believe these guys had I6, not 7, that might have been a different unit, but still, we can't compete with that.

[MaveriK]

Thanks for that! it really helps to know what works in our army, instead of other people just saying "don't get into close combat, just shoot them" advice haha. BTW, welcome to the FANG. Hope you enjoy your stay, from the looks of it in your avatar, you have a mighty fine beard! a Space Wolf at heart indeed! have an ale brother! you deserve this! it was a good fight none the less. We wolves only fear what we cannot kill. And from your experience, we now know how to better kill them.

[Stormshrug]

Thanks for that! it really helps to know what works in our army, instead of other people just saying "don't get into close combat, just shoot them" advice haha.

 

I agree that specifics are great, but I feel that "don't get into close combat, just shoot them" pretty much stands nonetheless.

 

-Stormshrug

[maverik_girl]

Rune Priest: Murderous Hurricane (check), Tempest's Wrath (check)

Long Fangs: Missile Spam? no... Plasma Spam (HELL YAH)

Grey Hunters: huh? we do what we do best, but since you asked, barrels of ale (check)... ready to roll. LETS DO THIS!

[chino]

Any Librarians will have to be shadowed with a Rune Priest to help prevent Shrouding from landing - Shrouding giving them Stealth and a cover save in the open. From there, you take them down just like any other Power Armoured target it would seem - Melta, Missiles, and Plasma. I'd be tempted to take Wolf Guard Plasma Squads to deal with more threatening units - Paladins in particular.

 

In a highly competetive scene, I'd assume Las/Plas Razorback spam would be on the menu. Over all though, the Grey Knights are looking like a very devastating Blood Angel army - with an increased ability to be highly mobile and hit like a truck in combat before you do. All hail the Grey Hunter Plasma Squad!

[Nrthstar]

Rune Priest: Murderous Hurricane (check), Tempest's Wrath (check)

Long Fangs: Missile Spam? no... Plasma Spam (HELL YAH)

Grey Hunters: huh? we do what we do best, but since you asked, barrels of ale (check)... ready to roll. LETS DO THIS!

 

 

Some missles will still be needed to take out transports. As for our Grey Hunters, as far as I can tell leaving your banners and motw back in the fang might be worth it to use the points elsewhere for more firepower.

[Grimtooth]

Too much list tailoring in this thread...... :huh:

 

Seriously though, I might swap out only one set of melta guns to plasmaguns for my all-comers list. I don't see me making the change to plasma cannons in my lower point games when I only have one Long Fang pack. I already have a full plasma cannon Long Fang pack for games above 2k.

 

I think my Land Raider Redeemer might have some fun with the Flamestorm cannons now.

[DV8]

Agreed Ramses, a solid, balanced all-comers list should have no problem facing up against Grey Knights. The only real change will be shifting target priority based on the particular army build you face, but otherwise Grey Knights are still space marines (shinier, but still the same toughness and save).

 

The units may also sound particularly nasty (and that's because they are!) but remember they pay a premium in points for it. A Grey Knights army won't usually have a lot in it, less so the more toys they take.

 

 

DV8

[MalachiOfRuss]

My GH melta guns felt like I was baiting myself into a trap. I did destroy his rhino, but at the same time, if you're grey hunters are close enough for some of the falchion equipped bastards to assault you, then you can kiss that squad goodbye. I actually believe these guys had I6, not 7, that might have been a different unit, but still, we can't compete with that.

Indeed the Nemesis Halberds give +2I to the wielder (and they can take one on every member of the squad). One member of the squad can have a Nemesis Warding Stave that gives them a 2+ Invulnerable save in CC. Las/Plas razorbacks and find some cover for your Grey Hunters is the order of the day. Different squads also have psychic powers that can: give them +1 S, make them strike at I10, or hit every model in the CC with a S4 attack. They also have 2 Wound Terminators that can have an Apothecary in the squad. Oh, and their Termies still have Frag and Krak grenades (yeah, they'll pretty much never be striking at less than I4). On the plus side, Storm Shields are pretty much non-existent except a few special characters, so for the most part, if you hit them with the AP 1 or 2 weapons you're dropping them down to a 5+ save.

[Nrthstar]

We discussed their points cost after the game, my friends defense of BA was that they are expensive points wise, and the same defense came up for the GKs. However, they may cost 20 points per model vs our 15 for troops, but they all have power weapons. I don't call that expensive, just cost effective. We pay far more for a power weapon, and we get 1.

 

I truly don't want to change my list a ton, since I enjoy playing all-comers teams, but I do see myself using 2 long fangs instead of 1 and keeping my boys in vehicles or keeping them at mid range to reign down some plasma gun fire. Another day, another challenger to kill, another keg to drink.

[DV8]

We discussed their points cost after the game, my friends defense of BA was that they are expensive points wise, and the same defense came up for the GKs. However, they may cost 20 points per model vs our 15 for troops, but they all have power weapons. I don't call that expensive, just cost effective. We pay far more for a power weapon, and we get 1.

 

I truly don't want to change my list a ton, since I enjoy playing all-comers teams, but I do see myself using 2 long fangs instead of 1 and keeping my boys in vehicles or keeping them at mid range to reign down some plasma gun fire. Another day, another challenger to kill, another keg to drink.

 

Don't make the mistake many others make when comparing codices (that is, to compare unit X from army A to unit Y from army B ). Units in armies fulfill different roles and are balanced for the army, and not across codices.

 

Point in case, Grey Knight Strike Squads are only 20 points per model, enjoying the benefit of a Force Weapon and Storm Bolter, but lack any access to real long ranged firepower (beyond the Psycannon which is limited by it's Assault Cannon range). In fact, the army as a whole, barring vehicles, lacks any firepower beyond the 24" mark. Factor in how expensive their characters and elite units are, and you'll see that Grey Knights are paying much more than just 20 points for their basic infantry.

 

 

DV8

[Nrthstar]

I did notice their only effective hqs are in termie armor, forcing a large amount of armies to use a termie squad, which were pretty easy to pick apart with a pc

[Emperors Immortals]

I had a quick game today vs. Gk using my BA.

 

I took a heavy mech list - 2 preds, 2 riflemen, 3 tacs + rhino, RaS, VV. Tying up a GK squad with the VV was just possible (much better points wise to use Ras w/ priest), RaS finished them off.

 

The cross fire from the preds and the tac squad combine with the cover form tehre rhinos let me open fire on 1 or 2 unis at a time, and they died pretty quick.From there i used melta and plasma (im a huge fan of plas) to flood his Termies with saves, they died off after 2 rounds.

 

The Vindi assassin and the GK master guy were teh problems really.Vindi could pick out spec weapons or priests form acoss teh board and also preds failry easy - and the Master was a beast in CC.

 

We called it a draw - but it was a mutaul annihalation!

 

I presume taking an extra 1 or 2 GH squads backed by LF instead of a dread and maybe swapping out the preds would enable SW to get a fairly solid win.

[CainTheHunter]

In fact, the army as a whole, barring vehicles, lacks any firepower beyond the 24" mark. Factor in how expensive their characters and elite units are, and you'll see that Grey Knights are paying much more than just 20 points for their basic infantry.

DV8

 

 

I wonder how GK would be faring against Dark Eldar then....

[Nrthstar]

I'm actually looking forward to sporting a similar list except fitting in a second LF squad and a Dreadnought instead of a Lone wolf.