Keeping Objective-sitters safe

[Frogstar168]

Gentlemen,

 

I am having trouble keeping my “objective-sitters” alive. In my last few games vs my DE buddy, I used a 5 man Scout squad with sniper rifles and camo cloaks to guard my “home” objective, under the idea that I could hold 1 objective and send the rest of my army to kill and contest the others. In every game, the Scouts were killed in assault by some fast DE unit (Hellions and Reaver Jet Bikes, mostly, popping out of a webway portal). Even when I stuck my HQ (MotF) and a Dreadnaught with them, they still died and I lost the objective.

 

What are some ideas for keeping small objective-sitting units safe from being assaulted by stuff coming in from reserve?

[minigun762]

1) Mech them up. This doesn't help much with Scouts but camping out inside a Rhino does give you that added layer of protection from the quick assault and makes it that much harder to ping away at your squad from a distance.

2) Multiples. While you don't want to invest a lot in "campers" , splurging on another unit to help hold an objective can make a big difference, especially if they units are situated so its difficult to assault/destroy both at the same time.

3) Support. Similar to multiples above, you can always support your campers with a non-scoring unit that can either absorb incoming assaults or present a more tempting target. (this is exactly what you tried with your HQ/Dreadnought).

4) Don't Camp. The idea here is simple, you don't rely on a camper squad to hold an objective, instead you focus on engaging the enemy early on and then swinging back for a last turn capture. This can be difficult with variable turn games though, so its a bit of a gamble however mobile/fragile armies like Eldar rely on this almost exclusively.

 

In this specific case, I think either swapping your Scouts out for a Rhino/Razorback squad would be useful OR taking 2+ Scout Squads to hold the same objective.

[captaincandle]

What you could do is try giving the scouts shotguns, combi flamer and a LSS with heavy flamer... it starts at the rear and it's job is to NOT sit at the objective, but react to their scoring units grabbing it. For example, DE transport rushes it and unloads some dudes in turn 4, assuming you went first, your turn five, rush out of the cover you were hiding in and flame the hell out of the warriors. With the combat shotguns, you would be unlucky to not kill the squad, or kill enough that they would be badly hurt. Assault them if need be because if assaulting from the LSS, the enemy is -1 leadership and the scouts should win. then you have an objective and your scouts were safe for not a whole lot more points.

 

This tactic is easy to hide because five scouts out loaded like that are a very low priority during the game as your sternguard drop to rake the enemy lines with special bolter fire and you LR charges up the center, so it's easy to play them down, then they zip out turn 4/5... whenever they are needed to kill the unit try to hold the objective.

 

This tactic isn't so good against armies with armour saves of 3+ or better for their troops, or even 4+. It can however deny them the objective, which isn't as good but puts you up as you deny the objective completely and your army focuses on capturing the others on the board.

 

Hopes this helps.

[Mysticaria]

LSS is -2 leadership on the assualt. I like a heavy flamer on there with combi flamer on sarge. Should be good against DE.

 

I'd say the problem here is you are playing into the DE strength. There are some armies you can camp against and some armies you can't. DE are very rapid moving army, and have lots of mobile transports with guys. In this case you either need to do something to protect your own guys, using one of the strategies already stated above, or do something to prevent the enemy from having access to their fast transports. If you know you are hunting raiders, for example, you can take units tailored to that task. Finally, try and support your objective sitters longer with support units. Instead of just leaving them there on turn 1 and advancing, maybe give them support and don't leave until turn 3 or 4 depending on the situation. Remember, you just need to get to the other objective(s) by turn 5 with one unit.

 

-Myst

[DarkGuard]

The other thing to keep in mind is that when this guy goes after your objective campers he's committing a portion of his force to take out a 100pt unit. Use this against him, catch him the open and counter-attack. As long as you end the game with one objective more than him it doesn't matter who's holding it an who isn't. So if you can tell that your Scouts will die from the beginning use them to lure him into a trap of your devising and hit him hard when he falls into it, and then rely on your other units to take the other objectives. I once used my Scouts to lure a LRR into melta range of my reserves, was quite satisfying when my gambit worked and I wiped out effectively half of his fighting force with meltas and my Vindicators.

 

Failing that, keep your campers in transport, well protected by other units, or in reserve. Of course, the latter is less camping and more tactical planning.

[Wildfire]

4) Don't Camp. The idea here is simple, you don't rely on a camper squad to hold an objective, instead you focus on engaging the enemy early on and then swinging back for a last turn capture. This can be difficult with variable turn games though, so its a bit of a gamble however mobile/fragile armies like Eldar rely on this almost exclusively.

 

I'd say the problem here is you are playing into the DE strength. There are some armies you can camp against and some armies you can't. DE are very rapid moving army, and have lots of mobile transports with guys. In this case you either need to do something to protect your own guys,

 

^These. While those scouts may be good against a shooty list, they're junk vs. DE. Find something else for them to do or remove them from your list.

[raganrkob]

I personally like sniper scouts a lot. The thing about them is that they are really annoying to your opponent because 1)they are holding an objective and 2)shoot from very far away.

Now "camping" at an objective doesn't mean that you have to sit in the actual objective the whole game. Just deploy them in cover as far as you can from the enemy (this should be easy due to infiltrate+scouts) but around 12 from the objective you want to capture. That way you can shoot all game and just run in the last turn.

 

That squad should't be more than 100 points so it acts as a diversion also. if your opponent wastes time/resources by trying to kill the snipers just let them. Meanwhile you can move some other unit(s) and kill them/deny the objective. Ok course it depends on the kind of list you have but if you have a couple of transports that shouldn't be too hard to pull of.

[greatcrusade08]

4) Don't Camp. The idea here is simple, you don't rely on a camper squad to hold an objective, instead you focus on engaging the enemy early on and then swinging back for a last turn capture. This can be difficult with variable turn games though, so its a bit of a gamble however mobile/fragile armies like Eldar rely on this almost exclusively.

 

I'd say the problem here is you are playing into the DE strength. There are some armies you can camp against and some armies you can't. DE are very rapid moving army, and have lots of mobile transports with guys. In this case you either need to do something to protect your own guys,

 

^These. While those scouts may be good against a shooty list, they're junk vs. DE. Find something else for them to do or remove them from your list.

 

a sage has spoken ;)

seriously though.. i often battle peoples misconceptions with scouts, but wildfire has always had it on the money, no exception here.

scouts are unforgiving, if your using the wrong set-up and they are dying in nearly every game, then you need to change them up.. otherwise they become a ball and chain, a weakness that your opponent will exploit time and time again.

5 ccw scouts in a storm with heavy flamer is a good unit and is only 135 points.. you can add a Pw or meltabombs or combi for flavour, but its not a huge amount more than your using now.

[Frogstar168]

Good advice, all. Sadly, I do not own a LSS, but I do have a 5 man CC Scout squad, along with the sniper Scouts. Is there an effective way to use them against DE with out the LSS? I like the idea of putting them near the objective (not on it), but they would still be just as vulnerable to fast DE assault elements. Besides these guys, I have regular Tactical squads for my 2 x Troops, but I like my Scouts' paint jobs...

[minigun762]

Keep them in reserve maybe? I'm not 100% but I think they can outflank and have move through cover, so bring them in during the middle of the game and leg it through cover to an objective.

[terminatorAM]

this is much more risky, relaying on timing and other variables, but you could keep one of those squads in reserve and come in later rounds when the DE have swept in. the scouts could even outflank if you kept the objective by the edge

[raganrkob]

I know that snipers in the back are still vulnerable to fast assault units but you can have some other squad nearby so that if they get killed then you kill the enemy that destroyed them.

 

I don't play a lot of DE but I play plenty of 'Nids and I am used to outflanking genestealers, what I do is I keep a tac squad in a rhino around 6 of the scouts, that way the 'nid player knows that if he assaults the scouts then the bugs will be fried by rapid fire on my turn. Things like wyches and hellions work in a similar way.

 

The idea is basically to let the enemy choose, either he ignores the scouts or if he tries to kill them then he ends up in a vulnerable position. Of course it's easier said than done, but the snipers "vulnerability" can be exploited in your benefit by preparing for an assault towards your "weak link".