Fluff Heresy?

[Dave the Twisted]

When I went onto the GW site today, I saw something that gave me quite a shocker.

 

A Grey Knight carrying a Daemon blade

 

Now I'd always believed that, indestructible or not, a self-respecting Grey knight would try and destroy/seal away a powerful daemon artifact rather than carry it into battle. I'm aware that some peers of the Ordo Malleus would advocate using the forces of Chaos against itself, but these are the types the staunchly puritan Grey Knights would see burned at a stake.

 

I figured that at the sight of something so dreadful, there'd already be a thread about this little oversight in fluff, but I found none. So my question is where is our fluff heading? The quote in his text blurb states that he's "not so much resistant to the temptations of Chaos so much as immune to them", so the questions that raises for me are "Why does this need to be said if current fluff dictates that no Grey Knight has ever fallen to Chaos?" and "If he's so immune to Chaos's temptations, why would he feel the need to carry a daemonic weapon?"

 

My other question is "Why is GW suddenly seemingly contradicting one of the largest parts of Grey Knight background, that they'd rather go into a fight armorless and armed with a toothpick than carry a Chaos sword, or would rather burn a daemon's head than carry it around as a trophy?"

 

Now don't get me wrong, Crowe is quite the impressive model visually, so long as that nasty Chaos sword is clipped off and replaced with a weapon more befitting one of the Emperor's own genestock, but I am really quite concerned about what's happening to the fluff.

[number6]

The justification seems to be, "This daemon weapon is absolutely indestructible. And so powerful that locking it away would only delay the inevitable release of it into dangerous (i.e., non-GK) hands. So let's give it to a GK so at least we know where it's at and there's no danger of it doing something eeeevil."

 

Hey, it's just as believable as insisting that every single bad guy likes to advertise that s/he is eeeevil and therefore is required to dress up in spikes and skulls. Must be in the contract or something.

 

Part of why we all play 40K is for the fluff. But doing so means you have to go along with overly simplistic (if not outright childish) sillyisms, too. It's part of what makes the game fun. :)

[Gentlemanloser]

I quite like his fluff.

 

Still, it makes litle sense he actually *uses* it, and doesn't just strap it to his back, a-la Cypher and go to town with a Nemesis Force Weapon.

[Hinti]

I don't see any Problem..........

 

Is the/your Problem that a GK is wielding a Sword in witch a Deamon ist bound??

Is the/your Problem that this Sword is/was formerly a Choas Artefakt??

 

Don't get me wrong, I "can" Understand that some People have a Problem with the Fact, that one of the Emperors cleanest and finest Warriors go into War with an Chaos-Sword, but why not?? As I understand the Fluff, there is a Deamon bound to this Sword, he's angry (be honest, who will be not :) ) that makes that Sword a powerfull Weapon, an who else then a pure and stable GK Mind is able to take Controll and care about it.....?

This is in MY Opinion NOT working against the GK's Fluff.........

 

btw.

The Artefacts Calgars swings are also NOT ImperialCrafted.....

[Dave the Twisted]

Maybe I'm giving too much credit to the GW fluff team when I say this but perhaps this is a subtle allusion to the end of days that was said to be coming in the 5th ed BRB. The Emprah is dying and therefore even the most uncorruptable are starting to lose it as a result of his influence waning. I'd be thoroughly surprised, though, if they followed up this apparent end of times with an Apoc expansion featuring Leman Russ as a formation. With 40K as one of GW's largest cash cows, I somehow doubt they're in a hurry to reach the big end.

 

I do see the point in keeping the supposedly indestructible artefact with the purest of Grey Knights, and I do remember that the Gauntlets of Ultramar were once supposedly wielded by a Chaos champion, but the difference I see is that the Gauntlets were extensively purified and re-painted in a stylish blue while this blade still very much reeks of Chaos.

[Aeddon]

btw.

The Artefacts Calgars swings are also NOT ImperialCrafted.....

Same goes for Logan Grimnar's axe IIRC. Wasn't it originally a daemonweapon before being reforged?

[armbarred]

But Crowe isn't loosing it, and isn't actually using the blade of antwyr for anything more than a close combat weapon. It is acceptable to me, as someone who is having other issues with the new fluff.

 

I can see giving an artifact that we haven't figured out how to destroy yet to a devout warrior. Better then keeping it on Titan and exposing everything that is supposed to be kept safe and secret.

 

I am looking forward to making a Crowe model, even though I think his rules are bit weird... (I hate the fact that he is not an Independent Character).

[number6]

I am looking forward to making a Crowe model, even though I think his rules are bit weird... (I hate the fact that he is not an Independent Character).

At least this is a clear case of rules flowing directly from fluff. He's carrying what might be the most powerful Chaos artifact known to mankind. Either the guy carrying it is going to stay away from allies out of respect, or the allies in question simply aren't going to let him join up out of fear. Or even both, perhaps, depending on the "allies" in question.

[Seahawk]

The Artefacts Calgars swings are also NOT ImperialCrafted.....

Actually, they are of Imperial make, just really really old. Every source says they were "re-claimed" from a Chaos jerk, not simply "claimed," inferring previous Imperial ownership. Just like I'll reclaim any stolen/lost items from the police, as did Guilliman reclaim the stolen/lost Gauntlets.

 

5th edition fluff has done many things that previously were unheard-of. Many chapters apparently now have various alien/odd relics from many races living and extinct tucked away in their vaults. While the daemon sword is chaotic and thus even more out there than ever before, it is the style of the author to have such things.

[Judanas]

The Artefacts Calgars swings are also NOT ImperialCrafted.....

Actually, they are of Imperial make, just really really old. Every source says they were "re-claimed" from a Chaos jerk, not simply "claimed," inferring previous Imperial ownership. Just like I'll reclaim any stolen/lost items from the police, as did Guilliman reclaim the stolen/lost Gauntlets.

 

5th edition fluff has done many things that previously were unheard-of. Many chapters apparently now have various alien/odd relics from many races living and extinct tucked away in their vaults. While the daemon sword is chaotic and thus even more out there than ever before, it is the style of the author to have such things.

 

At this rate the next Sister of Battle codex will have a Cannoness with a Diresword.

[Vindicatus]

The Artefacts Calgars swings are also NOT ImperialCrafted.....

Actually, they are of Imperial make, just really really old. Every source says they were "re-claimed" from a Chaos jerk, not simply "claimed," inferring previous Imperial ownership. Just like I'll reclaim any stolen/lost items from the police, as did Guilliman reclaim the stolen/lost Gauntlets.

 

5th edition fluff has done many things that previously were unheard-of. Many chapters apparently now have various alien/odd relics from many races living and extinct tucked away in their vaults. While the daemon sword is chaotic and thus even more out there than ever before, it is the style of the author to have such things.

 

At this rate the next Sister of Battle codex will have a Cannoness with a Diresword.

 

 

Better :

 

What better way to castigate the witch than to have your very own, Sisterhood approved Crucible of Malediction?

 

Edit : better not spread this around; if Ward hears about this, we're all doomed.

[Eddie Orlock]

At this rate the next Sister of Battle codex will have a Cannoness with a Diresword.

Better :

 

What better way to castigate the witch than to have your very own, Sisterhood approved Crucible of Malediction?

No, we'll see 'Sisters Psykana' with sisterhood approved psychic powers that tap into the getalt faith and, if we're lucky, psychic hoods.

 

Of course the Canoness with the Diresword won't 'use' it, she'll just weild it against the Emperors foes. Just like that contemptable Grey Knight doesn't 'use' the deamon weapon, he only weilds it.

 

Still, I actually do look forward to my ghost-sisters, I think the concept fits better here than there. I'd say the battle nuns are more likely to accept faith based warp manifestations like instantly reincarnating living saints than the Knights.

[Vindicatus]

Nothing would wreck your day more than seeing a Canoness surrounding by vestiges of previous Living Saints as body-guards.

 

 

And thinking about it, that would be boss-awesome looking on the battlefield.

[Requiemnex]

The Artefacts Calgars swings are also NOT ImperialCrafted.....

Actually, they are of Imperial make, just really really old. Every source says they were "re-claimed" from a Chaos jerk, not simply "claimed," inferring previous Imperial ownership. Just like I'll reclaim any stolen/lost items from the police, as did Guilliman reclaim the stolen/lost Gauntlets.

 

5th edition fluff has done many things that previously were unheard-of. Many chapters apparently now have various alien/odd relics from many races living and extinct tucked away in their vaults. While the daemon sword is chaotic and thus even more out there than ever before, it is the style of the author to have such things.

 

At this rate the next Sister of Battle codex will have a Cannoness with a Diresword.

 

 

Better :

 

What better way to castigate the witch than to have your very own, Sisterhood approved Crucible of Malediction?

 

Edit : better not spread this around; if Ward hears about this, we're all doomed.

 

 

Want to buy Sisters codex written by Phil Kelly... However I have e-mailed Matt Ward your wonderful idea. Thanks! Buwahahahaha :P

[Vindicatus]

Want to buy Sisters codex written by Phil Kelly... However I have e-mailed Matt Ward your wonderful idea. Thanks! Buwahahahaha ;)

 

 

I hope you have some sort of minor fenderbender (in such a way that you're completely fine), in which your model-case is mysteriously catapulted out of your car and into a tree chipper.

 

In the Emperor's name we pray.

 

 

:P

[skarn]

I was thinking of fielding Crowe, but converting a model up with a more ornate sword strapped across his back. Fluffwise I reckon it's better if it's a really old sword found on a daemon world (maybe via a certain traitor battlebarge) that none of the GK can wield, perhaps the sword of an all powerful psyker. So they give it to the Chapter champion. He can't use it, but the daemons hatred of it draws the most powerful of them to him.

Only Bjorn might know whose sword it really is... :tu:

[Inquisitor =D=]

Oy... You have no idea the rant I unleashed upon seeing that daemonsword. Couldn't have gone with Archeotech instead? I know its a familiar fall back for fluff but it sure as heck makes more sense... I can understand having an Incorruptible person keep an eye on it, but sending that guy out on a suicide mission with it just doesn't fly with me.

"Here's your new sword Abbadon! You just have to beat this guy for it."

 

=]D[=

[Judanas]

Still, I actually do look forward to my ghost-sisters, I think the concept fits better here than there. I'd say the battle nuns are more likely to accept faith based warp manifestations like instantly reincarnating living saints than the Knights.

 

Why are the Ghost Sisters ALL St Celestine?

[Eddie Orlock]

Still, I actually do look forward to my ghost-sisters, I think the concept fits better here than there. I'd say the battle nuns are more likely to accept faith based warp manifestations like instantly reincarnating living saints than the Knights.

Why are the Ghost Sisters ALL St Celestine?

When did I state they're all Celestines? I'm confused by your question. Phenomina like Celestine would simply make the sisters more accepting of and receptive to such things.

 

Then there's the thought that since Celestines appear in so many armies they're obviously not unique, rather more a class of manifestation than a particular entity. In this line, why not make them all Celestines.

[Judanas]

Still, I actually do look forward to my ghost-sisters, I think the concept fits better here than there. I'd say the battle nuns are more likely to accept faith based warp manifestations like instantly reincarnating living saints than the Knights.

Why are the Ghost Sisters ALL St Celestine?

When did I state they're all Celestines? I'm confused by your question. Phenomina like Celestine would simply make the sisters more accepting of and receptive to such things.

 

Then there's the thought that since Celestines appear in so many armies they're obviously not unique, rather more a class of manifestation than a particular entity. In this line, why not make them all Celestines.

 

Sorry, I was making a bad joke about St Celestine managing to spawn multiple ghosts due to her tendency to die and get better.

[SamaNagol]

The fluff in this instance makes perfect sense and is well written.

 

Which is a rarity for Matt Ward. If you want to pick holes in things, flip the pages over to Draigo's fluff.

[Gentlemanloser]

Well, the only glaring part of the fluff that doesn't work is the fact he swings the Daemonsword (I guess it would *really* like to be covered in blood...), and doesn't just carry it and use a traditional Brotherhood blade.

 

That would make more sense, and round the fluff out nicely.