HERO Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2011/03/more-pg...le-reports.html The third battle report. Won't share any spoilers in here just yet, but man.. I feel cheated :ph34r: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of fact Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 You shouldnt feel cheated, i dont know if your into your fluff or not but Khorne SHOULD be resistant to most physic power's, rules wise maybe FAQ it? Who knows, good reading though Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 I just think it's funny I'm a more efficient MEQ-hunter than Daemonhunter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Ouch! I do like reading the more note-form batreps, though. They summarise the important parts of the game, without getting bogged down in "and on turn 4, Tactical Squad Kelvin moved 6 inches, fired 8 shots, three of which wounded..." type stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle-Captain Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I Haven't got my daemon codex on me at the moment but i'm pretty sure the 2+ save given by the collar of Khorne is only against the effects of psycic powers used against them. I know that the force swords ability to instant kill things counts as a power but that ability doesn't work against daemon due to their eternal warrior rule. That's why Nemesis weapons have the daemon bane rule which doesn't cause instant death but daemons and psykers have to take a leadership test to be removed as a causualty. This is not a psykic test so he wouldn't get a 2+ save. Also your nemesis weapons are power weapons unless you chose to use the force power, which you wouldn't against daemons as i mentioned above. So really your mate wouldn't have had that 2+ save unless you used the force power of your nemesis weapons. I'll double check my daemon codex when i get in but i'm pretty sure that's how it works. Battle-Captain Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I Haven't got my daemon codex on me at the moment but i'm pretty sure the 2+ save given by the collar of Khorne is only against the effects of psycic powers used against them. I know that the force swords ability to instant kill things counts as a power but that ability doesn't work against daemon due to their eternal warrior rule.That's why Nemesis weapons have the daemon bane rule which doesn't cause instant death but daemons and psykers have to take a leadership test to be removed as a causualty. This is not a psykic test so he wouldn't get a 2+ save. Also your nemesis weapons are power weapons unless you chose to use the force power, which you wouldn't against daemons as i mentioned above. So really your mate wouldn't have had that 2+ save unless you used the force power of your nemesis weapons. I'll double check my daemon codex when i get in but i'm pretty sure that's how it works. Battle-Captain It's a 2++ against force weapons which are still force weapons even if you're not using the psychic ability to make wounds cause instant death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeychunks Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Yeah, he was playing by the rules. Whether you activate it or not, a Force Weapon is a Force Weapon, and so the Daemons get their 2++. Think of it the other way round: If it only counted against charged ID Force wounds, who in their right mind would activate it? Daemons are immune to those wounds anyway. If it makes you feel better, this was basically the most tailored list he could have made and alot of those units wont exist in any competitive setting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 HERO: Did you remember the daemonbane rule? It causes a Ld test for every wound caused to a daemon or psyker. If it is failed, they are removed from the game. Blessings of the blood god would not have any effect on this rule. It seems to me that an entire squad of knights would force enough Ld tests to make a greater daemon phase out. If you did remember, then WOW! BotBg is ridiculously tough. I play against a mono khorne army as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 HERO: Did you remember the daemonbane rule? It causes a Ld test for every wound caused to a daemon or psyker. If it is failed, they are removed from the game. Blessings of the blood god would not have any effect on this rule. It seems to me that an entire squad of knights would force enough Ld tests to make a greater daemon phase out. If you did remember, then WOW! BotBg is ridiculously tough. I play against a mono khorne army as well. It's got to be an unsaved wound and well I imagine the 2++ prevented him from getting and unsaved wound on him. And even so everything in that book is LD10 except for Fate Weaver. It's really not gonna happen that often. This kind of daemon army just needs the crap shooting out of it but I'm guessing HERO couldn't get the shots off in time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
antique_nova Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 just castle up in a corner then and when the time comes charge with all your grey knights at his khorne units if possible. put the purifier unit in and have only the GM in BtB contact with any of the MCs. So purifiers charge the blood letters, multiple units if possible and cleanse the with the flame attack. these multiple combats should wipe out the blood letters and then assuming your GM survives which he should, you should be winning the combat by a fair amount say by 8 kills? A DP is bound to fail a couple of +3 saves if he losses combat. better still knock off the DPs invulnerable save with the vindicare's sniper and psyco cannon the DPs face to mash. You said that you did everything right, you can't of if you got steam rolled so badly, you were playing to the weakness of the khornate army well enough. your lists didn't feel like they were balanced enough, but i guess that's what comes around when your still experimenting. After reading your batrep, i think that i will use a vindicare over a calldius assassin now. thanks antique_nova Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 better still knock off the DPs invulnerable save with the vindicare's sniper and psyco cannon the DPs face to mash. The invun isn't conferred by a piece of wargear, it's a natural save that it gets from being a daemon. The Vindicare can't remove the save with his shield-breaker round. Not that HERO took one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Well know you know why it took so many Grey Knights to get rid of Angron last time. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
antique_nova Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 .......... well i am glad that i have many rhinos and dreadnoughts blocking the way to my grey knights then! :P. i will just stand the men on a hill or building and shoot them to death! even a DP should be afraid of 3 dreadnoughts with 6 tl-autocannon between them eyeing him/her. also i am gald that i packed warp rift for my libby :P. wait are DPs T5? i can't remember. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utsujin Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Yeah, he was playing by the rules. Whether you activate it or not, a Force Weapon is a Force Weapon, and so the Daemons get their 2++. Think of it the other way round: If it only counted against charged ID Force wounds, who in their right mind would activate it? Daemons are immune to those wounds anyway. If it makes you feel better, this was basically the most tailored list he could have made and alot of those units wont exist in any competitive setting. Demonbane ignores demons EW in the sense that.. they gotta take a LD test, if fail, remove from play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 In instances like this, powers like Dark Excommunication are boss. ++2 save versus psychic attacks and wounds from Force Weapons? Sorry, not this round. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle-Captain Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I stand corrected by Ashe Darke. That collar of Khorne will make it difficult for our Grey knights up close against those Khorne units. I guess this could be a reason to justify having a Dread Knight in your army to back up your units if they come up against this type of thing. I have to agree with Ashe Darke again and say that it looks like the humble storm bolter and weight of fire will be our friend in this case. It has to be said though that the list Hero faced as complety tailored to beat his army..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I could be wrong, but i don't think daemon bane specifies that it has to be an unsaved wound. Which, if you think about it, makes up for the fact that the have to FAIL a Ld test for it to work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I could be wrong, but i don't think daemon bane specifies that it has to be an unsaved wound. Which, if you think about it, makes up for the fact that the have to FAIL a Ld test for it to work. It says one or more unsaved wounds. So even if you get multiple wounds it's only one test they have to take, unless they're Fate Weaver in which case he will take one for Daemon Bane and one for his own thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2700993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Daemonbane is nice against larger multi-wound models, since every little bit helps, and there's always a chance dice will fall in your favour. Against single-wound hitters though, especially one's that get a ++2...yeow. I'd have my Librarian wading into combat and slinging Dark Ex everywhere I could just to watch my opponent's face crumble. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2701005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarn Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Wouldn't the Collar give a 2+ save against Dark Excommunication? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2701011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 It's not an attack that causes wounds, thus there is no save given. I had this discussion with a friend of mine who runs a Khorne list, and he tried to pull this on me. Needless to say I think it would be damned silly if the very power meant to strip a daemon of his gifts for a turn was negated...because of a gift. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2701014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarn Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Doesn't the Blessing say it gives a 2+ save vs psychic powers and force weapons? Isn't Dark Excommunication a psychic power? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2701071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Doesn't the Blessing say it gives a 2+ save vs psychic powers and force weapons? Isn't Dark Excommunication a psychic power? Except as Vindicatus pointed out, it is not a damage dealing power. You don't get invuln saves against powers that don't cause damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2701098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Its times like these that you need Crowe :X Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2701100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Aye, as Blessing only protects against psychic powers that cause wounds, there is nothing a Chaos player can do about having said gift removed by Dark Ex. Useful to have in the army, and I know in talking with several players at my LGS that they're now going to be taking something like this, or a few SW players I know are loading up on Rune Priests. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/225630-my-grey-knights-lost-vs-daemons/#findComment-2701137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.